Favorite Films (lists up to participating site members)

[Steadmund Brand]

Your question about the Marx brothers is a valid point, especially when it refers to Groucho and Chico.. .but as for Harpo...everything you ever read was what Harpo did Harpo came up with.. all that would be written many times was things like " Harpo enters, causes problems, Harpo leaves", in his own book ( and on a few books written by Groucho) he states that he never felt as much a part of the team, because when they would be creating routines and skits, he was not included, he was off on his own because nobody could come up with stuff for him to do...

I loved your point about Ted Healy.. makes you wonder why some people were thought of as so funny by one generation and the next several just don't get it....another good example of that might be The Ritz Brothers.. a wildly popular team for many years... that are all but forgotten.. seriously, when is the last time even a station like Turner Classic Movies played a Ritz Brother film...and when they do, I'm sorry but does anyone laugh?

Steadmund Brand

[Mayerling]

Benny Hill... now that’s a hard one for me, I would say it's like the Three Stooges.. I find them all hysterical, as I do Benny Hill... but others will complain they are one trick ponies...but they are soooooooooo good at what they do I would say yes, see many comics have tried to do the Benny Hill shtick (both before and after he did) but none did it as well....and the Stooges.. well....why is it funny to watch guys get slapped and hurt over and over again.. it's not.. other people who try to do it have proved that it's not funny... yet.. when they do it.. HYSTERICAL.. so that is the GENIUS of them (or I should say of Moe Howard as he was the creative element there)

I know what you mean. Both Hill and the Stooges (especially when they had Curley) were terrific at what they did. With the Stooges it helped that their shorts were steered by director Jules White, who had a good disciplined sense of timing that matched theirs. Hill apparently really was involved in the skits he put on. Occasionally, for example, instead of his normal "silly oriented sex" skits, Benny did a quieter specialty he probably thought up. In one case, I recall, he had come across a poorly transcribed sermon from some pastor, where the printer had not noticed one or two letters were not coming out. The result was unintentionally very amusing, and Benny told the audience it was not written for the show but he felt they'd enjoy hearing it. He was right - it was so preposterous due to unforeseen errors in vocabulary and diction.

As for the Stooges, your comment about the "artistry" of the slaps and bops and blows is quite original. But the proof is that they outgrew the person who was responsible for organizing the Stooges as an act: Ted Healy. Healy is one of these one time well liked comics (El Brendel is another one) whom when you see today you wish would leave the film as quickly as possible. He is a brash loud talking "side-kick" to the main figure (Clark Gable in "Dancing Lady" and "San Francisco") or a pest type (a nosy reporter in Peter Lorre's "Mad Love" or Jean Harlow's low-life, drunken brother, in "Bombshell"). I can't stand watching him (I hate to say this, considering Healy's fate is a possible murder mystery, but the scene I liked him best in was when he is dying in "San Francisco" after the earthquake - terrible of me to be sure). When Healy was "Ted Healy and his Racketeers" or "Ted Healy and His Gentlemen" or "Ted Healy and his Stooges", he was the one who slapped the other three and bullied them. You can see this in a forgotten film "Meet the Baron" dealing with several comedians in a plot about radio's "Baron Munchausen"/Jack Pearl ("Was you dere Sharlie?"). Healy (who had a serious drinking problem - which Moe, Larry, Shemp, and Curley all resented) did not mind really being rough. When they broke with him he tried to assemble a new set of Stooges, and failed. Yet when he died in 1936 the Stooges did attend his funeral out of respect.

Then there are those performers who are very uniquely special.. Harpo Marx comes to mind...you could put him in the worst of the worst low budget poorly directed piece of garbage and he would still come off brilliant, even as an old man, when he was doing pathetic TV commercials for Labatt’s beer, there was something special, a certain magic about him...very few performers have that... I know that Chaplin, Marcel Marceau had both said Harpo was the best pantomime they ever saw.. that's pretty high praise....

I also recall Buster Keaton saying the Red Skelton was the greatest comic he ever saw...funny... I like Skelton but never thought he was that good..so it's all subjective I guess


Steadmund Brand

Actually I could have included both Harpo and Groucho in my list and failed to. My problem is I wonder how much their inspired insanity (and Chico's) were due to themselves or writers like S.J. Perelman or George Kaufman. Hard to say, but they certainly kept going for years.

Keaton knew Skelton well - he worked closely with Skelton as a gag-man and advisor in films like "A Southern Yankee", so his opinion here is worthy of consideration.

Jeff

[Steadmund Brand]

Benny Hill... now that’s a hard one for me, I would say it's like the Three Stooges.. I find them all hysterical, as I do Benny Hill... but others will complain they are one trick ponies...but they are soooooooooo good at what they do I would say yes, see many comics have tried to do the Benny Hill shtick (both before and after he did) but none did it as well....and the Stooges.. well....why is it funny to watch guys get slapped and hurt over and over again.. it's not.. other people who try to do it have proved that it's not funny... yet.. when they do it.. HYSTERICAL.. so that is the GENIUS of them (or I should say of Moe Howard as he was the creative element there)

Then there are those performers who are very uniquely special.. Harpo Marx comes to mind...you could put him in the worst of the worst low budget poorly directed piece of garbage and he would still come off brilliant, even as an old man, when he was doing pathetic TV commercials for Labatt’s beer, there was something special, a certain magic about him...very few performers have that... I know that Chaplin, Marcel Marceau had both said Harpo was the best pantomime they ever saw.. that's pretty high praise....

I also recall Buster Keaton saying the Red Skelton was the greatest comic he ever saw...funny... I like Skelton but never thought he was that good..so it's all subjective I guess


Steadmund Brand

[Mayerling]

Ahhh French (Dawn) and Saunders (Jennifer) good pick...very funny..

I would also add Spike Milligan to that list...and as a tip of the hat to my neighbors to the north... if the Pythons make the list so do The Kids in the Hall...also think that the late Harold Ramis should get a mention.. people tend to forget the many comic masterpieces he wrote and or directed.. seriously take a peek at his list of credits again...it's more impressive then Mel Brooks who's name pops in everyone’s head right away.

re-thinking this, not sure I would put some of these folks as comic "genius", funny, yes, hysterical, often.. but very rare for true genius.....

Steadmund Brand

You are right about Milligan. I have not seen "The Kids in the Hall". Right about Ramis (I tend to dismiss people who are better but seem to have it easy - that old "William Powell looks good, so it must have been routine for him to do", when it was damned hard for him to do.

I was also thinking of Marty Feldman too, but I just don't know if he was a comic genius or not. Many of his skits are really hysterical. And how does one treat Benny Hill, a comic who specialized but had a real hand in his material.

Jeff

[Mayerling]

Jeff, Stan born in Scotland?

Robert, ya caught me! I shouldn't be such a damned smarty!! I checked Wikipedia, and Stan is from Lancashire. He was born there in 1890, his name being "Arthur Stanley Jefferson". Still he is English, so he does fit in with Chaplin and the English descended Keaton.

Jeff

[Steadmund Brand]

Except for Chaplin. Stan Laurel, and Keaton (the first born in England, the second in Scotland, the third with English antecedents) and Jacques Tati I was too U.S. Centered on my choices. And I should have included Carlin - thanks for reminding me.

The following could be added from Britain:

Will Hay
Tony Hancock
Peter Sellers
the Boulting Brothers
the Monty Python Troup
Hugh Laurie and Stephen Frye

Also the female partners on television whose names I can't recall - one is (or was) fat and subsequently played a female vicar, and the other was teamed in "Absolutely Marvelous".

Jeff

Ahhh French (Dawn) and Saunders (Jennifer) good pick...very funny..

I would also add Spike Milligan to that list...and as a tip of the hat to my neighbors to the north... if the Pythons make the list so do The Kids in the Hall...also think that the late Harold Ramis should get a mention.. people tend to forget the many comic masterpieces he wrote and or directed.. seriously take a peek at his list of credits again...it's more impressive then Mel Brooks who's name pops in everyone’s head right away.

re-thinking this, not sure I would put some of these folks as comic "genius", funny, yes, hysterical, often.. but very rare for true genius.....

Steadmund Brand

[Robert]

Jeff, Stan born in Scotland?

[Mayerling]

Except for Chaplin. Stan Laurel, and Keaton (the first born in England, the second in Scotland, the third with English antecedents) and Jacques Tati I was too U.S. Centered on my choices. And I should have included Carlin - thanks for reminding me.

The following could be added from Britain:

Will Hay
Tony Hancock
Peter Sellers
the Boulting Brothers
the Monty Python Troup
Hugh Laurie and Stephen Frye

Also the female partners on television whose names I can't recall - one is (or was) fat and subsequently played a female vicar, and the other was teamed in "Absolutely Marvelous".

Jeff

[GUT]

And Williams was brilliant from the first time saw him as Mork on Happy Days, a true comic genius but like so many with the dreaded "Black Dog".

[GUT]

[QUOTE=Steadmund Brand;336270]

I can't put Jerry Lewis on the list...I am in that "he's unfunny" camp.. but I do know people who LOVE him....I don't get it... it's like Will Ferrell, people seem to love him and I find him PAINFULLY UNFUNNY!!

I am a big Alan King fan as well.. also a great actor... Pryor for sure changed comedy as did Lenny Bruce (a personal favorite of mine)... I would also add George Carlin to that list.. he was the perfect mix of Bruce and Pryor.. but not as "honest" as either one..

Allen and Brooks I agree with as well... I think Mel's last few films were not up to his standard.. but I think he had no motivation and was just going thru the motions... that happens to the best of them...

I lIke the Coen Brothers.. but wouldn't put them up there with that group..but when they are on they are on, as it were.

I'm close to putting someone like Carl Reiner on the list...and possibly George Burns.. who was able to be both the clown and straight man, and could play both well, and was smart enough to know which to be and when.. not easy to do!!

I'm glad you mentioned Robin Williams... it reminds me that I just saw a Special Edition Blu Ray/ DVD of the Fisher King is coming out soon... in my opinion his best performance in film ( and he had some great ones!!) and one of the, if not the best film Terry Gilliam has made (Yes I do also love Brazil...but Fisher King is really something special)

Steadmund Brand

Lewis was funny when he was with Martin.

[Robert]

This man was a comedy genius :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofUZNynYXzM

[Steadmund Brand]

[QUOTE=Mayerling;336266]

Thanks for the reference to the Curtis biography and the Louvish book. I'll see if I can find them.

Well technically Brooks and Allen might by considered modern comedy geniuses. I did not include one who some consider funny but others reject - Jerry Lewis. I feel he falls into the middle somehow.

There was definitely some stand-up comics in modern times one could include:

Lenny Bruce
Mike Nichols and Elaine May
Alan King (a favorite of mine)
Zero Mostel
Richard Pryor
Robin Williams (the fastest of the bunch - and sorely missed)
Billy Crystal
Whoopy Goldberg

In terms of film I would suggest the Coen Brothers work.

Jeff

I can't put Jerry Lewis on the list...I am in that "he's unfunny" camp.. but I do know people who LOVE him....I don't get it... it's like Will Ferrell, people seem to love him and I find him PAINFULLY UNFUNNY!!

I am a big Alan King fan as well.. also a great actor... Pryor for sure changed comedy as did Lenny Bruce (a personal favorite of mine)... I would also add George Carlin to that list.. he was the perfect mix of Bruce and Pryor.. but not as "honest" as either one..

Allen and Brooks I agree with as well... I think Mel's last few films were not up to his standard.. but I think he had no motivation and was just going thru the motions... that happens to the best of them...

I lIke the Coen Brothers.. but wouldn't put them up there with that group..but when they are on they are on, as it were.

I'm close to putting someone like Carl Reiner on the list...and possibly George Burns.. who was able to be both the clown and straight man, and could play both well, and was smart enough to know which to be and when.. not easy to do!!

I'm glad you mentioned Robin Williams... it reminds me that I just saw a Special Edition Blu Ray/ DVD of the Fisher King is coming out soon... in my opinion his best performance in film ( and he had some great ones!!) and one of the, if not the best film Terry Gilliam has made (Yes I do also love Brazil...but Fisher King is really something special)

Steadmund Brand

[Mayerling]

[QUOTE=Steadmund Brand;336264]

I was born in 1954 so I was fully aware of Kovacs imprint - and recall his death in 1962 as a shocker (a car accident). The first of two that year (Marilyn Monroe was the second one).

His work still holds up pretty well. Sorry he could not have gone on for another five decades.

you are correct, he could not have gone another 5 decades not with his 20 cigar a day habit (and my girlfiriend is mad at my 1-2 a day habit )

Did you ever read the book about W.C Fields : A Biography by james Curtis... if not I highly recommend it!! I also liked Man on the Flying Trapeze: The Life and Times of W.C Fields by Simon Louvish.. but many "fans" bash that book.. it's a great history lesson of the times as well... especially of English Music Halls.....

any modern comics you would consider "genius"?

Steadmund Brand

Thanks for the reference to the Curtis biography and the Louvish book. I'll see if I can find them.

Well technically Brooks and Allen might by considered modern comedy geniuses. I did not include one who some consider funny but others reject - Jerry Lewis. I feel he falls into the middle somehow.

There was definitely some stand-up comics in modern times one could include:

Lenny Bruce
Mike Nichols and Elaine May
Alan King (a favorite of mine)
Zero Mostel
Richard Pryor
Robin Williams (the fastest of the bunch - and sorely missed)
Billy Crystal
Whoopy Goldberg

In terms of film I would suggest the Coen Brothers work.

Jeff

[Steadmund Brand]

[QUOTE=Mayerling;336259]I was born in 1954 so I was fully aware of Kovacs imprint - and recall his death in 1962 as a shocker (a car accident). The first of two that year (Marilyn Monroe was the second one).

His work still holds up pretty well. Sorry he could not have gone on for another five decades.

you are correct, he could not have gone another 5 decades not with his 20 cigar a day habit (and my girlfiriend is mad at my 1-2 a day habit )

Did you ever read the book about W.C Fields : A Biography by james Curtis... if not I highly recommend it!! I also liked Man on the Flying Trapeze: The Life and Times of W.C Fields by Simon Louvish.. but many "fans" bash that book.. it's a great history lesson of the times as well... especially of English Music Halls.....

any modern comics you would consider "genius"?

Steadmund Brand

[Mayerling]

As far as comic genius goes... no doubt Stan Laurel should be up there with Chaplin, hmm who else would I put on that list.. lets see

1- Charles Chaplin
2- Stan Laurel
3- Buster Keaton ( but more as a stunt coordinator but still)
4- W.C Fields- however, from all that I have read none of us ever saw the best of Fields.. he was washed up by the time he started making films.
moving away from silent films I would say

5- Ernie Kovacs- too bad he is all but forgotten....he really was a visionary...I am far too young to have watched him, he died long before I was born, but I have collected his works over the years and can only imagine how fresh it was at the time... seeing as so much of it still holds up today

anyone want to add some more? or debate this list?

Steadmund Brand

I was born in 1954 so I was fully aware of Kovacs imprint - and recall his death in 1962 as a shocker (a car accident). The first of two that year (Marilyn Monroe was the second one).

His work still holds up pretty well. Sorry he could not have gone on for another five decades.

Fields wasn't really washed up in the 1920s when he turned to movies - but Kerr points out that we are so used to his magnificent gift for language and that twang in his voice that when we watch his silent films (mostly with Chester Conklin as his partner and stooge), when we see the dialogue cards we frequently read them thinking how he'd pronounce the words. By the way, he uses many of the same routines from his sound films in his silent ones, so they aren't lost.

Louise Brooks appeared with him in the Ziegfeld Follies and in "That Royale Girl" (a film, alas, now lost). She said he was always funnier on stage.

Hard to make a list of pure film comic genius. Some transcend it:

Capra
Jacques Tati
Billy Wilder (but good as a dramatic director too)
Mel Brooks
Woody Allen
Lloyd (good at choosing material - at least in silent period)
Sturgis
Lubitsch