Natalie Holloway- new discovery

[c.d.]

As a wise man once said, sometimes kid's ears fill up with wax and they can't hear you. A little shot on the behind tends to knock that wax right out.

c.d.

[Archaic]

I'm amazed that Joran confessed, but that perp walk in the bullet-proof vest seems to have shocked some sense into him and his father isn't there to orchestrate his lies.
I bet he asked for protection in custody...I hope they didn't promise.

How strange that Joran says Stephany "intruded into his private life" when that "private life" has been splashed all over the world's public media for 5 years and he has courted publicity & notoriety. His ego was probably hurt that she hadn't already heard of him, even though it suited his purposes.

Makes me wonder if Joran killed anyone else along the way who suddenly figured out his true identity and threatened to upset his plans. I also wonder what else Stephany might have seen on his laptop.

Best regards,
Archaic

[caz]

Hi Ally,

As you say, it depends on the kid and what works. It should also depend on what exactly the kid has done to deserve the spanking - if anything. I would never say never to spanking any child, just because my daughter never did anything to deserve one. We've all seen and heard kids we'd like to throttle. My daughter often says, only half jokingly I suspect, that she's going to get her tubes tied, after seeing yet another thoroughly horrible brat playing up in public.

But what about the parent's responsibility for possibly causing a child's naughtiness in the first place? It seems a bit mean, not to say unproductive, for mom to give Johnnie a spanking for something annoying but relatively trivial (either because the Bible advocates it or she honestly thinks he will thank her for it in the long run and become a good, kind boy), then when Johnnie thinks he can hit his kid sister for being annoying to him, he gets an even bigger spanking for being violent.

Love,

Caz
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[Roy Corduroy]

Hi Diana,

You have my sympathy in how, when you were kind enough to share your own experiences with parenting, and that you are religious, you were attacked like there's something wrong with that.

There are people just sitting on ready to attack anyone who says the word bible.

You did nothing wrong. You said nothing wrong. You have nothing to be ashamed of. You were just giving an example. And for your trouble, you got talked to like some interloper from another planet.

Roy

[GregBaron]

Psycho...........

Yeah, it appears this Dutchman is the classic psychopath. I saw a
clip on tv where he explained why he lied(forgot his explanation), how
he would hate Natalie if she returned(I suppose she caused him grief),
how he didn't know if she was dead when they dropped her into the
sea(the secret tape) and how Natalie's family acted atrociously in
seeking justice. Classic symptoms, it's always everyone else's fault,
I am all that matters, callousness, lack of empathy etc...

I don't think we can blame the parents.....these kids are born...
perhaps environmental factors bring out the psycho tendencies but
studies indicate brain abnormalities.....normal stimulation inadequate
hence thrill seeking, danger, gambling etc...stunted emotional
development...low impulse control etc....brain scans highlight such
differences.......

A moral dilemna would be........If we could determine early on we
had a psycho.....what would we do with such kids?

Perhaps put them on an Island and let them go Lord of the Flies
on each other..........!


Greg

[Ally]

Hi Diana,
You were just giving an example. And for your trouble, you got talked to like some interloper from another planet.

Roy

I consider people who thump the bible to justify what they do, while conveniently forgetting the other 450 things from the bible that they are supposed to be doing but aren't, to be from another planet. Her argument was not strengthened by pointing to the Bible, it was blatantly nonsensical as a means of support for a logical discussion considering every single Christian who justifies what they do from a passage in the Bible is cherry picking the select things from it that they want to follow. If she had stuck to criticisms of Doctor Spock, she'd have had firmer ground.


Caz,

Oh I definitely agree that the vast majority of people use spanking more to alleviate their own frustration than as a properly used tool in their arsenal of parenting. But that can be said of ANY parenting tool that is used inappropriately and non-judiciously. What of the parent who grounds a kid from all human contact for a month because the kid was 1 minute late for curfew? Why precisely is spanking pointed to as the bogeyman of overboard punishments when parents can use any punishment unwisely and that action can lead to further misbehaving when the kid rebels?

[007]

I consider people who thump the bible to justify what they do, while conveniently forgetting the other 450 things from the bible that they are supposed to be doing but aren't, to be from another planet. Her argument was not strengthened by pointing to the Bible, it was blatantly nonsensical as a means of support for a logical discussion considering every single Christian who justifies what they do from a passage in the Bible is cherry picking the select things from it that they want to follow. If she had stuck to criticisms of Doctor Spock, she'd have had firmer ground.

Wow! What an incredible strawman you've constructed!!

If I ever mention that I eat strawberries will some folks here who happen to not like strawberries accuse me of strawberry-thumping, or that I only choose to eat some strawberries and not others, blatantly disregarding certain strawberries in favor of others? Or in the case of another post, that I am actually proselytizing for strawberries?

[Ally]

One thing is clear. You have no idea what a straw man argument actually is. First by accusing me of doing it, and second, by doing the exact thing you have inaccurately taken me to task for.

Not only is your counter argument idiotic, but it doesn't follow the premise of what I said at all. If the Flying Spaghetti Monster came down from the sky and told you that you were required to eat strawberries, dye your hair purple, and dance under the moon every second tuesday, and you chose to eat strawberries and said you ate strawberries because the Great Spaghetti Monster said to, while having brown hair and not dancing the obligatory tuesday boogie, then one can clearly reason that you do not eat strawberries because the Spaghetti monster told you to, you eat strawberries because you like strawberries and consider it a good thing to do.

Mentioning you eat strawberries is fine. Mentioning you believe in spanking kids is fine. It's the reasoning behind WHY you eat strawberries or spank your kid that can be called in to question. I didn't question Diana's decision to spank her kids. I believe in spanking kids as I already said. I said her justification-- that she cherry picks specific things out of a whole hosts of "thou shalls" -- is a ludicrous reason for doing anything.

[Roy Corduroy]

Hi Ally,

I understand exactly. Diana said Bible. You said-

quit with the proselytizing

I thought proselytizing was when you went to Saudi and got arrested for mouthing off about Jesus. Golly, anyone can be called a proselytizer right in your hometown serial killer message board. Just say the word.

Roy

[diana]

I doubt there is a single Christian anywhere who obeys everything in the Bible perfectly, certainly not me. In that sense all are cherry pickers. Thank God for His mercy toward imperfect people. I pray that God will help me to do better, because the Lord deserves better. Its not every day that Somebody dies for you. That said, there are certain requirements of the Old Testament (covenant) that are explicitly excluded for Christians in the text of the New Testament (such as some of the dietary laws ie. shellfish).

[Ally]

Hi Roy. We've been here before with Diana. And no proselytizing isn't when you get arrested, it's when you preach your beliefs to people who have not signed on to get a religious sermon. Which includes on a message board with people of all faiths and opinions. And as I said, we've been here before. This isn't Sunday School and the Bible isn't justification for ones actions when you admit you don't do everything it says to do when raising your kids or living your life. So her argument in support of her spanking her children is totally worthless. As worthless as saying she does something because the Flying Spaghetti Monster tells her to. In the end, the religious do exactly what every one else on the planet does: exactly what they want to.

But then they try to justify it by saying because this is God's law. And then when they get smacked for being illogical they shriek like a two year old about being persecuted. Well guess what, this isn't the local church or mosque. This is a message board out in the world where billions of people don't believe as you do and your using your version of the FSM to justify your actions IS going to be met with derision, because quite frankly it's ludicrous as a means of support to anyone but you.

I smack everyone when they are on a board I am on and write a bunch of illogical blather. Look at 007 there. But of course, no one gets their panties bunched about it as much as the religious.

Why precisely aren't you defending 007 likewise? Oh let me guess, you're Christian aren't you and you aren't really defending Diana's argument, you're defending your faith?

Now, I am sure the rest of people on this board is tired of it being taken over by the religious fringe debate, so I am going to go back to discussing the Joran Van Der Sloot case now. There are message boards where you can go do likewise with spreading the word.

[Ally]

The more details actually emerge the more confused I get. I find the coincidence of the date to be really hard to wrap my head around if it WASN'T a planned attack, but if it was a planned attack, his bringing her back to his room was quite possibly evidence of the stupidest criminal EVER.

Also, it's become known that she was an out lesbian, so what was her motivation for going back to his room? Joran has said he was high when he killed her, and it is known that he approached her after she won a lot at the casino. I am wondering if he lured her back there by saying he had pot, intending to drug her and rob her.

I still find the coincidence of the dates to be beyond comprehension.

[caz]

Caz,

Oh I definitely agree that the vast majority of people use spanking more to alleviate their own frustration than as a properly used tool in their arsenal of parenting. But that can be said of ANY parenting tool that is used inappropriately and non-judiciously. What of the parent who grounds a kid from all human contact for a month because the kid was 1 minute late for curfew? Why precisely is spanking pointed to as the bogeyman of overboard punishments when parents can use any punishment unwisely and that action can lead to further misbehaving when the kid rebels?

Oh I agree with all of this, Ally. Spanking a kid is no better or worse, in terms of 'overboard punishments', than locking him in his room or taking away his toys, assuming the aim is for him to grow up treating others as he would like to be treated.

But spanking is what Diana's daughters apparently needed, according to the Bible, to make sure they would not grow up to be miserable sinners with any violent streaks or criminal tendencies. I didn't appreciate the implied insult that anyone who doesn't read the Bible and spank their kids - whether they need it or not - has less chance of turning out grown adults who know right from wrong and choose to do as they would be done by. It's not true and it didn't strike me as a very 'Christian' thing for Diana to suggest.

Love,

Caz
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[Ally]

I can understand your dismay. After all everyone knows that the proper method for rearing childrens is through the tenets and requirements set forth by His Blessed Noodlyness, long may his noodles and meaty balls fly. Off to build my pirate ship and spread the word to Joran Vandersloot. If only he had embraced the true faith, perhaps he'd have been spared the Jolly Rogering he's bound for in jail.

Priestess Ally
Devoted Pastafarian

[caz]

I just read somewhere else on the boards, by strange coincidence (or was it the Flying Spaghetti Monster guiding me?), that Bible reading not only makes you spank little children, whether they deserve it or not. It can also make you cut them up in pieces and leave them around the place to cook and eat later, after you have amused yourself by soaking cotton wool in lighter fluid, poking it firmly into your anus then setting your bottom on fire with a kitchen match.

Yes, Albert Fish was a Bible reader, God help him. And if anyone deserved a damn good spanking as a child, that freak of nature did.

Small problem - he would have thoroughly enjoyed it.

Love,

Caz
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