Natalie Holloway- new discovery

[Barnaby]

The extent of the injuries in the most recent murder are rather shocking. It makes me think that this was not a GHB date rape scenario but rather, as Ally says, something to do with a failed money exchange. That would also help explain why this murder occurred with no real planning. I mean, this is straight out of American Psycho. Most serial killers with any wit are not going to leave a body in a room registered in their own name.

Then again, without Natalie's body, it is hard to make comparisons as to his m.o.

I'm sure authorities are now (and should have already been) tracking Joran's movements these last 5 years and seeing if his presence correlates with any other missing girls. I'm beginning to wonder if Natalie was even his first victim. I'm beginning to wonder about the extent of his father's involvement in his activities.

It's fitting this clown dyed his hair red.

[Archaic]

I'm not usually a fan of Fox News, but I found a YouTube clip from Nov. 2008 in which ex-prosecutor Kimberly Guilfoyle discusses that scum-bag
Van der Sloot back when he was claiming that he had "sold Natalee into sexual slavery." His story is patently ridiculous, but Joran lies right in everyone's face in his usual brazen way.

What impressed me though was that in this 2008 clip Guilfoyle calls him "A predator and a danger to women everywhere".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRviFqPE4W4

Best regards,
Archaic

[Barnaby]

Murder weapon was a baseball bat.

[kensei]

I started this thread back in March with the report of possible remains of Natalie found underwater. Nothing came of that unfortunately, but I'm absolutely thrilled at what's happening now- though not, of course, that another girl had to die to acheive it. The girl's father states that his daughter is a hero who God chose as a vehicle to bring this man down, and I wouldn't argue.

Van der Sloot is sleeze beyond sleeze. I hope Peruvian prisons have very few comforts.

[diana]

One news report has it that the murder weapon was a tennis racquet. Another states that he had bloody clothes in his possession when he was arrested and of course they will be checking the DNA on those. The most telling incident for me was back when the main issue was Natalee Holloway and there was an interview with Joran's mother. The main thrust of it was, my son would never do anything like this. That set off alarm bells in my head because I taught school for many years. I cannot count the number of times I heard that line from parents whose children had major behavior problems. Inevitably these folks existed in a dream world where they blocked out their children's problems and defended them no matter what they did. The result was always the same. The child got the message that misdeeds never had any consequences. Any kid who believes that is inevitably headed for trouble. By the time the parents wise up its too late. For those reading this who have kids, please listen when the teacher complains about their behavior. 99.9 percent of the time he/she is not just being picky or a grump. He/she is probably your kid's best friend. The best most loving thing you can do for your child is to take him home and discipline him and make sure he understands that you will not tolerate misbehavior at school or at home. You are not doing this for the teacher but for the child. A kid who never learns at home that actions have consequences will eventually learn it from the criminal justice system. Being grounded or having a spanking or sitting in time out or whatever your philosophy of discipline dictates is not in the same league with a stretch in the slammer. One prevents the other.

[Barnaby]

Being grounded or having a spanking or sitting in time out or whatever your philosophy of discipline dictates is not in the same league with a stretch in the slammer. One prevents the other.

In general I agree with this, however, spankings and/or other forms of cruel and unusual punishment may exacerbate the problem. But I don't think that's what you meant.

Nonetheless, the extent to which good parenting can reverse a developmental trajectory pointed at SERIAL KILLER is debatable. I'd love to know to what extent (if any) good parenting prevents at-risk kids becoming antisocial serial killers. For example, was Lionel Dahmer a horrible parent? I don't know - clearly he missed signs - but horrible???

Now, when your father allegedly helps you dispose of the body (Joran's dad), then that's a different story!

[diana]

If indeed Mr. Van der Sloot helped dispose of the body, then I do not seriously believe that it was the first time Joran's parents helped him avoid the consequences of his acts. It had probably become standard operating procedure with the result we see. I have read Lionel Dahmer's book and like you my heart goes out to the man. I do not think all serial killers are caused by parents, only that parents who shield their children from the consequences of their acts are asking for trouble. Spanking is a very controversial subject, one that could easily take over this thread. Suffice it to say that the Bible advocates it. I had two children. I spanked them both. My older daughter is a successful CPA with a masters degree in tax accounting and a happy marriage with four children. No trouble with the law, no drugs, no premarital sex. My younger daughter is a minister's wife with a bachelor's degree, happily married, no trouble with the law, no drugs, no premarital sex, two children. I have read the studies about deleterious effects of spanking. I choose to believe the Bible instead. I am old enough to remember when spanking first fell into disfavor in the fifties as the result of Dr. Spock. I saw the results. I did not like them.

[Ally]

So being a criminal and a druggie is now apparently equal to having sex outside of the marital bed? Christ. Although, I am sure your daughters appreciate you spreading the details of their sex lives to all and sundry on the internet, so tell us, were you actually there on their wedding night to witness the ritual breaking of the hymen? Or how about we quit discussing your daughters boinking habits, and quit with the proselytizing and return to topic, what do you say?

[Roy Corduroy]

Vandersloot has round, chimpanzee-like ears, prominent forehead ridge, low brow, beady eyes, like a genetic throwback to simian type creature. Yes I know this is all outdated hogwash, but it makes you wonder, doesn't it.

[diana]

Van der Sloot has confessed.

[kensei]

Van der Sloot has confessed.

Just to clarify- he has confessed to killing Stephany Flores, not to Natalie Holloway. I'm surprised, I didn't think he would. I really expected him to say "She was fine when I left her." It was a rather lame confession though, in which he seemed to blame Stephany for setting off his temper by taking his laptop without permission to do a search on him, and of course he didn't want her learning about his past.

So he is going down, for sure. Let us celebrate, and hope that he is put in solitary confinement at least long enough for him to eventually come clean about Natalie. Otherwise I would expect him to share the fate of Dahmer in fairly short order.

[Ally]

I am presuming that she looked on his laptop during the time he went to get coffee. My question is (and please do not think I am blaming her) but why oh why, the minute she typed in his name, didn't she close the laptop, and get out the damn door? I mean it would have taken two seconds from the initial search before she would have realized he was implicated in a girl's disappearance, WHY was she still there when he got back? Where has our sense of self-preservation gone? Again, I am not blaming her, I just wish she'd beat feet when she first typed in his name instead of staying to confront him.

[ChrisGeorge]

Vandersloot has round, chimpanzee-like ears, prominent forehead ridge, low brow, beady eyes, like a genetic throwback to simian type creature. Yes I know this is all outdated hogwash, but it makes you wonder, doesn't it.

Check out some of the pictures of Frederick Bailey Deeming. There's some resemblance with Vandersloot.

[caz]

If indeed Mr. Van der Sloot helped dispose of the body, then I do not seriously believe that it was the first time Joran's parents helped him avoid the consequences of his acts. It had probably become standard operating procedure with the result we see. I have read Lionel Dahmer's book and like you my heart goes out to the man. I do not think all serial killers are caused by parents, only that parents who shield their children from the consequences of their acts are asking for trouble. Spanking is a very controversial subject, one that could easily take over this thread. Suffice it to say that the Bible advocates it. I had two children. I spanked them both. My older daughter is a successful CPA with a masters degree in tax accounting and a happy marriage with four children. No trouble with the law, no drugs, no premarital sex. My younger daughter is a minister's wife with a bachelor's degree, happily married, no trouble with the law, no drugs, no premarital sex, two children. I have read the studies about deleterious effects of spanking. I choose to believe the Bible instead. I am old enough to remember when spanking first fell into disfavor in the fifties as the result of Dr. Spock. I saw the results. I did not like them.

Diana,

Did you spank your daughters just because the Bible told you to, or did they deserve it because they behaved badly? You seem to be implying that my daughter must have turned out worse than yours because I didn't consult the Bible when raising her and I never spanked her. But that was because she was always well behaved without either 'prop'.

Could we possibly leave religion out of this? I'm hard to offend but I find this stuff extremely offensive.

Are you seriously suggesting that a sound regular spanking, while quoting the Bible, would have made this creep grow up as good as gold?

Love,

Caz
X

[Ally]

Well I am going to take the top off the can of worms and say I am in favor of spanking some children. Depends on the kid. As Caz said her daughter never needed correction in that manner. I know two sisters, one was spanked as a child and one was not. The reason? The parent picked the punishment to fit the child. One child you could have spanked them all day and it would not have mattered a whit, but take them away and force them to sit in their room with no friends and no tv and no games and it was agony. The other child would cozy up in their room quite happily but spanking was the worst punishment possible for them. I don't believe in spanking because the parent is pissed off and wants to take it out on the kid, but as a punishment, sometimes kids need a pain stimulus response to stop.

I was with a friend the other day who has a three year old. We were talking and he came in with some loud god awful screeching toy and stood there, deliberately making it go off over and over. After 15 minutes of her trying to be polite to the kid "Please stop that, go into the next room to play with that, please stop we're trying to talk, that's too loud, please stop..." seriously 15 minutes of this, I looked at him and said "Kid, I am trying to talk to your mom. If you don't go into the next room with that toy, I am going to take it from you, and smash it with my foot, then you won't have it any more." The kid looked at me, weighed what I said and took his toy to the next room. I have the same philosophy with kids who hit. If they hit me, I give them one specific warning "If you hit me, I will hit you back and I am bigger than you and I hit a lot harder." That's usually enough to make them quit. Kids need to learn that actions have consequences and that's something, whether through spankings or not, I don't think Joran ever learned.


(PS and I am neatly going to avoid the topic of people who spout the Bible for everything they do while eating shellfish and wearing rayon. Grrrrr!)