Not Again

[Robert]

Oh blimey! "Duty is only skin deep."

[Pcdunn]

Patrick, I think your friend serves no one but himself.

And that's the main problem, isn't it? Sigh.... All I know is that any god who tells people to hate and kill other people on principle is certainly no God of mine.

[Patrick S]

Patrick, I think your friend serves no one but himself.

And that's the main problem, isn't it? Sigh.... All I know is that any god who tells people to hate and kill other people on principle is certainly no God of mine.

No longer friends. In fact, that was the last time I saw him.....four years ago now.

Another interesting part of that conversation as it relates to my family rotting in hell. Gave him a scenario:

A bushman. Lives in Africa. Totally selfless. Lives in squalor in filth his whole life. Give away anything of value. Spends his days helping others. Never thinks of himself. He eventually starves to death because he can't bear to see other's go without. But, he dies happy in the knowledge that other lived because he died. He goes to hell because he has never seen a Bible, never heard of Jesus Christ, was never baptized. Never confessed his sins. His response: "Of course."

Meanwhile. Hitler. Goes to the bunker. Converts to Catholicism. Baptized. Confirmed. Confession. All that. (There was some consternation on his part about Hitler committing suicide and that being a sin, so we agreed - for the sake of the analogy - to pretend the Red Army shot him) He is heaven? His response: "Of course. That's what the church teaches."

He was very offended when I said, simply, "That's some pretty silly $hit."

[Wickerman]

Prior to 9/11, the most deadly terrorist attack in the US, with 168 dead, was the Oklahoma Bombing by Timothy McVeigh in 1995.

How many home grown (Christian?) terrorist killings have been aimed at Abortion clinics?

Suicide attack on the IRS building, Austin Texas, 2010. (Joseph Stack crashed plane into office building).

Planned parenthood bombing/murders, Brookline, Massachusetts, 1994, by John Salvi - Christian terrorist.

Central Olympic Park bombing, 1996, by Eric Rudolph, Christian terrorist.

The list goes on....

Extremists, are the problem, and they come in many colours.

[Rosella]

^ Patrick, I am not so naive about Islam as you seem to imagine. I also work with and know Muslims here in Australia. However, I do think, when looking at the proportions of Muslims who worldwide approved of 9/11 (which was an horrendous attack, no doubt about it) that hatred and resentment don't just spring up out of a vacuum.

Is it possible that some of it may have come from American foreign policy decisions over the last thirty odd years, (including Bush's decisions post 9/11 which at least partly allowed for the growth of ISIS.)? That's not defending Islam simply looking at the history of the Middle East. Of course radical mullahs and ISIL internet sites spread messages of hate and stir up resentments. I think that is a grave problem on its own account.

However, what's your solution? Bomb them all to Hell? There has to be a multi-pronged approach, and that includes examining the root causes of the mess the Middle East finds itself in, a mess for which the West is not blameless.

[GUT]

Prior to 9/11, the most deadly terrorist attack in the US, with 168 dead, was the Oklahoma Bombing by Timothy McVeigh in 1995.

How many home grown (Christian?) terrorist killings have been aimed at Abortion clinics?

Suicide attack on the IRS building, Austin Texas, 2010. (Joseph Stack crashed plane into office building).

Planned parenthood bombing/murders, Brookline, Massachusetts, 1994, by John Salvi - Christian terrorist.

Central Olympic Park bombing, 1996, by Eric Rudolph, Christian terrorist.

The list goes on....

Extremists, are the problem, and they come in many colours.

Yep extremists of every variety.

[GUT]

No longer friends. In fact, that was the last time I saw him.....four years ago now.

Another interesting part of that conversation as it relates to my family rotting in hell. Gave him a scenario:

A bushman. Lives in Africa. Totally selfless. Lives in squalor in filth his whole life. Give away anything of value. Spends his days helping others. Never thinks of himself. He eventually starves to death because he can't bear to see other's go without. But, he dies happy in the knowledge that other lived because he died. He goes to hell because he has never seen a Bible, never heard of Jesus Christ, was never baptized. Never confessed his sins. His response: "Of course."

Meanwhile. Hitler. Goes to the bunker. Converts to Catholicism. Baptized. Confirmed. Confession. All that. (There was some consternation on his part about Hitler committing suicide and that being a sin, so we agreed - for the sake of the analogy - to pretend the Red Army shot him) He is heaven? His response: "Of course. That's what the church teaches."

He was very offended when I said, simply, "That's some pretty silly $hit."

Sounds like your ex friend was a hypocrite.

[Shaggyrand]

Is it possible that some of it may have come from American foreign policy decisions over the last thirty odd years, (including Bush's decisions post 9/11 which at least partly allowed for the growth of ISIS.)?

Why limit it to that time frame? Let's be honest- US, Europe and Russia have given the area little reason to love them over the past 150 years or so. Many invasions, nearly constant wars, meddling in all their affairs, repeated destabilizations for profit...

[Rosella]

Yes of course that's true. However I was limiting it to the period of the rise of the Taliban and of Osama bin Laden, because if we go further back, to the Arab world's reaction to the founding of the State of Israel for example, that's another hornets nest. Then to the Sykes/Piquot Line another, and so on.

[Pcdunn]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_POLICE_CHIEF_CALL_TO_ARMS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-12-09-17-42-18

A Texas police chief suggests Americans arm themselves in the wake of the "disappointing" speech by President Obama.
Other police officials have also said the same things.
(As a non-owner of a gun-- trust me, we're not all born knowing how to handle them.)

[GUT]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...12-09-17-42-18

A Texas police chief suggests Americans arm themselves in the wake of the "disappointing" speech by President Obama.
Other police officials have also said the same things.
(As a non-owner of a gun-- trust me, we're not all born knowing how to handle them.)

Seems strange to me.

Maybe we should let people with no idea drive cars too.

[Rosella]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/10/europe/amputee-soldier-muslim-facebook-donald-trump/index.html

[Wickerman]

[Pcdunn]

Naw, not Canada-- too cold for our aging bones.
All I know is this is one of the weirdest election years ever...

[Rosella]

Doesn't Colorado get a bit brisk in the winter months? We have friends in the US who have said (jokingly) that they are heading for the Canadian border if Trump gets in! I bet the GOP elite are deciding what to do about Donald as we speak. Maybe they'll end up in Canada!