Election

[Tab]

Rubbish!

The link itself tells you it is for Asylum Seekers, Migrant Help, Claiming Asylum, Asylum Services, Main Asylum Interview...

This is precisely what I talk about, people like you whitewashing the issue, trying to say Asylum help is for Humanitarian claims.

We CAN read you know, regardless of what you try to misrepresent.

Oh the irony. You obviously can't read, because I was clearly replying to your claim that there are legal routes in to the UK for asylum seekers. Not what happens once they get here. I am not sure what I am whitewashing? And I was definitely not saying 'asylum help is for humanitarian claims'. To be honest, I don't even know what that sentence means? Perhaps read my reply again. I know it must be hard keeping all these thoughts straight in your head when there is so much nastiness just begging to spew out, but lets try.

Tab

[Wickerman]

To be honest I am surprised you are taking this government data at face value, you know, with how much they lie to us and skew data to keep us subjugated.

It's called 'beating you with your own broom' - using your own sources against you.
As you refuse to accept factual information from unofficial sources, I'll offer factual info. from official sources.
The story is the same.

This is actually a pretty good source of data in all honestly, and if you scroll to the end of the summaries you can actually download all the raw data to analyse yourself which is neat. I would like to point out that the phrase 'irregular arrivals' includes all forms of irregular migration, including visa over stays, those arriving by air without documentation, those arriving by ferry etc... it is not just small boat crossings.

Right, and they give the percentages of arrivals by boat, and yes the govt. prefer to use 'irregular arrivals', another whitewashing term to try soften the implications of what is really happening.
How's about 'inconsistent visitors", or 'fluctuating guests'?

The data suggests that several world events over the last 6 years that this data covers, could account for the swings in 'irregular arrivals'. The total small boat arrivals for 2018 for example was just 299, and in 2022 it was a 45,774. It doesn't take much to look at the world around this 6 year timeframe are see what might have caused the increase. It peaked in 2022 and has been decreasing since. I would suggest it is simply returning to its base level because of the various humanitarian routes that have been put in place, as well as other policies and collaborations with other countries regarding human trafficking etc... Personally, I think the Rwanda plan has little do with it.

Of course you will, you can't accept the Rwanda Plan of April 2022 had anything remotely to do with the reduction of migrants to Britain.
Don't you see, a dismissal without reason, is denial?

That aside, I will agree the plan was crap. They would have had more success buying a remote island off Britain, of which plenty are for sale, and processing the migrants on the island.

[Wickerman]

Those goal posts shifted so quickly I got whiplash. All this is assistance is received once they are HERE and have claimed asylum.

You didn't read?
The site HELPS them CLAIM Asylum, nothing about once they have claimed asylum.

The getting here in the first place to claim asylum was the illegal part.

Yes, and the question is - why?, when they can get a flight for peanuts, and enter legally.
They don't, possibly because most of them have destroyed their passports.
And, why do that if you are 'honest'?

Honest people do not destroy their I.D. papers.

[Tab]

It's called 'beating you with your own broom' - using your own sources against you.
As you refuse to accept factual information from unofficial sources, I'll offer factual info. from official sources.
The story is the same.

Honestly, I would just be happy with you providing ANY source for this 'factual information' you have been posting recently. But I was happy with this government data source I must admit

Of course you will, you can't accept the Rwanda Plan of April 2022 had anything remotely to do with the reduction of migrants to Britain.
Don't you see, a dismissal without reason, is denial?

I gave my reasoning.

That aside, I will agree the plan was crap.

A rare agreement between us I feel, but I'll take it.

All the best,
Tab

[Tab]

You didn't read?
The site HELPS them CLAIM Asylum, nothing about once they have claimed asylum.

Yes OK, once they are here. I am not sure your argument here, the point was originally that you think there are legal routes to the UK to claim asylum, when in fact there aren't.

Yes, and the question is - why?, when they can get a flight for peanuts, and enter legally.

There is no legal way to enter the UK to claim asylum, for peanuts of otherwise. That is just a fact. How do you think someone wanting claim asylum is going to simply jump on a plane to the UK? Where from exactly? Are you thinking the people who have entered France illegally are just going to be able to wander in to a French airport and get the next Ryan Air flight to the UK? Or perhaps they will fly from their own country they are fleeing? What do people need to be able to fly in to the UK from another country I wonder, apart from a passport of course

I would be really interested in hearing how you think a family from say.. Sudan, who are part of millions displaced by the civil war, hunted and persecuted - how exactly you expect them to get a flight for peanuts to the UK to claim asylum?

They don't, possibly because most of them have destroyed their passports.
And, why do that if you are 'honest'?

Honest people do not destroy their I.D. papers.

Yes that is the only reason they won't have passports

All the best,
Tab

[Wickerman]

Source?

Are you kidding?
This kind of information, as variable as it is - different smugglers charge different price, etc. is pretty much common knowledge, and at your own finger tips.

Go ahead, surprise me. You want me to do the research for you, then you will criticize the source, by any means you can.
I've been around long enough to know the ploy....

Last November, French police quoted a price of about £5,000 charged by smugglers for an individual to cross the Channel, according to reports in the Mirror. Now asylum seekers and non-governmental organisations are saying that prices have dropped to between £500 and £1,000 for a place in a boat.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/06/channel-smugglers-drop-prices-and-cram-more-people-on-to-boats

The NOW, meaning after the Rwanda plan became widespread knowledge.

There are no words to describe this level of intellectual dishonesty. "Just jump on a plane for £25, duh! What are these people thinking getting on small boat to cross the sea!"

Oh, snobbery at it's most distasteful, and condescending with it.
Look it up yourself, those Nike wearing, mobile phone carrying, yet so-called destitute asylum seekers, are wealthy enough to afford a short flight to a legitimate British airport - like it or not.

Why did they have to approach these people in the first place to get them here, when they could have just packed their bags that morning and drove to the airport according to you???

Think....C R I M I N A L S.

We are not supposed to believe everything they tell us, that's why there is a process involved in determining who are genuine asylum seekers that need our help. What is your alternative to investigating their claims? Shoot them on sight? Get a mind reader involved?

It is a legal requirement that a person entering the British Isles must be able to prove their own identity, and where they came from.
It is NOT the responsibility of Border Control to prove who they are.

Just to remind you, this is an issue for all the single men who arrive illegally.

Complete families, or mothers with children, or children alone, would/should be given more lenient consideration. Few if any of these arrive by boat.

Blanket statements blah blah blah. Criminals will be criminals and do criminal things, shocking! Lets class all asylum seekers as criminals then we can just ship them all off out of sight and not have to worry them. Except the ones that come by plane apparently, they're OK. Or Not... maybe??. I can't quite tell from your ramblings.

When you can't see the difference, or are not adequately informed, you become part of the problem.

[Wickerman]

Oh the irony. You obviously can't read, because I was clearly replying to your claim that there are legal routes in to the UK for asylum seekers....

People claiming asylum status can arrive at an airport with a visa, or without.
The law requires a person arriving at an airport must hold a visa, yet this law is not being enforced. The authorities do not want to be seen jailing a family of asylum seekers.
Now you know the facts.

So, the claim link I provided, that you did not remove in your reply, is for asylum seekers arriving at an airport, where they are helped with information so they can successfully apply for asylum.

Some people claim asylum immediately on arrival at the airport/port of entry in the UK. If you do this, you will have your screening interview at the airport/port.

The process is detailed in a gameboard fashion to make it easier to understand.

https://righttoremain.org.uk/asylum-navigation-board/enter-the-uk/

Maybe, it will also help YOU understand.
Asylum can be claimed at the airport, after a short and inexpensive flight from Europe.
Assuming the applicant, is honest and has not destroyed his paperwork.

[Wickerman]

...

It appears that the seriously disturbed teenager who fatally stabbed three young girls in Southport on Monday was born in Cardiff and is of Rwandan descent.

"Descent"?, the report I heard said "son of a Rwandan migrant", but I suppose some media choose to whitewash that sentence.

Because of the total bastards spreading fake news on facebook and twitter, such as claiming that the killer was a boat person from Syria, fifty police officers were injured at a vigil held for the victims in Southport last night, when gangs of thugs wearing balaclavas poured in from outside the area intent on violence.

Yes, totally wrong, no question.
How do you feel about other Youtubers claiming radical Right-wing, violent, hooligans assembled in Trafalgar Square?

In truth an assembly of seniors, families, mother's and concerned male citizens, complemented by police on their organization and control.
I think there was one drunken scuffle between two men, nothing more.

This is why it is so bloody dangerous and irresponsible for people to sit at their keyboards whipping up the baser instincts of thickos with brain cells in single figures.

I'd agree with you if you had been honest, and included "on both sides".
Spreading misinformation, exaggeration and lies do not help control the situation.

All those poor children and parents trying to come to terms with this awful tragedy, and the emergency services who attended the scene, have been violated all over again by hate-fuelled scum who had no concern or pity for them, but only anger aimed in entirely the wrong direction.

I don't remember you accusing the Muslim community in Leeds of being "hate-fueled scum", when a thousand of them tried to stop the child-care authorities, and police, from taking bruised children into care?
Where was your self satisfied preaching voice on that day?

What did you have to say about the Asian grooming gang in Rochdale, raping young girls for years (2004-2010)?
Nine were sentenced to prison.
What was that word, "scum"?

How do you feel about the Kent soldier attacked with a machete last week, or the video of an Asian youth riding on the outside of a double-decker bus, carrying a machete.

Or perhaps the machete fight in Southend last night, eight youths arrested.

We are seeing a breakdown of law and order, and nothing like this was happening before the country was flooded with migrants.
Who many, coincidentally, just happen to come from countries where wielding a machete in public is a normal occurrence.

I really urge you to think about this, Jon, because it seems like you are being beguiled by bad actors who want you to do their bidding by spreading fake news.

What I am pointing out is taking place all around you. That last line above seems to me to be more applicable to yourself, you just refuse to see the broader picture. It is pretty clear who is spreading fake news, when the same unrest, caused by the same people, is having the same effect all across Europe.

I would suggest you stop following the self-entitled 'nice people' and question everything 'they' say, because it's my experience 'they' are full of lies.
If you dig deep enough you will find an incendiary group called Hope not Hate, yet their philosophy is geared to Hate for anyone who challenges their Wokist agenda.
The founder of the group has a personal vendetta against certain people & groups he wants to eliminate.

Of all the blights on our politics, there are few more tedious than the left-wing campaign group that masquerades behind some poorly constructed frontispiece.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-sinister-tactics-of-hope-not-hate/

They pose as an anti-fascist group, while in fact they are quite the opposite.
This group are in some way behind most of the lies & deceit spread in the media, and on YouTube, and you seem to soak it up.
I can only hope you would pay as much attention to this as you have to Maybrick's Diary.

[Tab]

Are you kidding?
This kind of information, as variable as it is - different smugglers charge different price, etc. is pretty much common knowledge, and at your own finger tips.

Go ahead, surprise me. You want me to do the research for you, then you will criticize the source, by any means you can.
I've been around long enough to know the ploy....

Last November, French police quoted a price of about £5,000 charged by smugglers for an individual to cross the Channel, according to reports in the Mirror. Now asylum seekers and non-governmental organisations are saying that prices have dropped to between £500 and £1,000 for a place in a boat.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/06/channel-smugglers-drop-prices-and-cram-more-people-on-to-boats

The NOW, meaning after the Rwanda plan became widespread knowledge.

Appreciate the source... from 2022. This article from May this year is stating £6000, with a record number of migrants crossing in the first 5 months of this year compared to the same timeframe last year. It's almost as if there are a multitude of factors that effect this illicit trade in human suffering.

https:/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/20/smugglers-quadruple-price-of-passage-across-the-channel

Oh, snobbery at it's most distasteful, and condescending with it.

Condescending, absolutely. A snob? Not sure where you are getting that from. Unless having a shred of decency, humanity and empathy is the new definition of snob.

Look it up yourself, those Nike wearing, mobile phone carrying, yet so-called destitute asylum seekers, are wealthy enough to afford a short flight to a legitimate British airport - like it or not.

Sure, let me stick that in to Google - 'Can Nike wearing, mobile phone carrying asylum seekers afford a short flight to a British Airport'..... And the reply was.... Why is this relevant to the original statement about there being legal routes in to the UK to claim asylum?

Google really does know everything!

Think....C R I M I N A L S.

Is this an upcoming campaign poster for Reform, stamped across a nice big photo of people dying in rubber dinghies in the middle of the channel?

It is a legal requirement that a person entering the British Isles must be able to prove their own identity, and where they came from.
It is NOT the responsibility of Border Control to prove who they are.

It is absolutely the responsibility of Border Force to investigate the claims of asylum seekers, which involves proving they are who they say they are.

Just to remind you, this is an issue for all the single men who arrive illegally.

All those C R I M I N A L S you mean...

Complete families, or mothers with children, or children alone, would/should be given more lenient consideration. Few if any of these arrive by boat.

26% of those arriving by small boat in 2022 were women and children. Hardly worth thinking about when we have all those C R I M I N A L S taking up the rest of the space.

When you can't see the difference, or are not adequately informed, you become part of the problem.

Sure sure.

Tab

[Tab]

People claiming asylum status can arrive at an airport with a visa, or without.

They cannot arrive with a visa and claim asylum.

The law requires a person arriving at an airport must hold a visa

Got there in the end

yet this law is not being enforced.

Oh... was doing so well. I'll be sure to mention this to border force next time I am in the hour long queue at passport control and my wife gets a 10 minute grilling when we reach the front, even though she has lived here for 20 years. "But Wickerman said you don't even enforce visa requirements!!"

Now you know the facts.

Yes. The fact that attempting to enter the UK without a valid visa is illegal, as you have just stated. In fact, the very percentages you quoted earlier from the government website included those attempting to enter the UK ILLEGALLY without visas at airports. What did you call these people again??? Certainly wasn't "People claiming asylum legally".

There are no legal routes in to the UK to claim asylum.
Now you know the facts.

So, the claim link I provided, that you did not remove in your reply, is for asylum seekers arriving at an airport, where they are helped with information so they can successfully apply for asylum.

Some people claim asylum immediately on arrival at the airport/port of entry in the UK. If you do this, you will have your screening interview at the airport/port.

The process is detailed in a gameboard fashion to make it easier to understand.

https://righttoremain.org.uk/asylum-navigation-board/enter-the-uk/

What does this have to do with the price of fish?

Maybe, it will also help YOU understand.
Asylum can be claimed at the airport, after a short and inexpensive flight from Europe.
Assuming the applicant, is honest and has not destroyed his paperwork.

The fact you can't grasp why this is not possible in the vast majority of cases, and not for nefarious C R I M I N A L reasons, boggles my mind.

Tab

[caz]

That aside, I will agree the plan was crap. They would have had more success buying a remote island off Britain, of which plenty are for sale, and processing the migrants on the island.

Coming from you, Jon, I'd rather not know what you had in mind for the 'processing' of small boat arrivals on this remote island.

Soylent Green perhaps?

[caz]

"Descent"?, the report I heard said "son of a Rwandan migrant", but I suppose some media choose to whitewash that sentence.



Yes, totally wrong, no question.
How do you feel about other Youtubers claiming radical Right-wing, violent, hooligans assembled in Trafalgar Square?

In truth an assembly of seniors, families, mother's and concerned male citizens, complemented by police on their organization and control.
I think there was one drunken scuffle between two men, nothing more.



I'd agree with you if you had been honest, and included "on both sides".
Spreading misinformation, exaggeration and lies do not help control the situation.



I don't remember you accusing the Muslim community in Leeds of being "hate-fueled scum", when a thousand of them tried to stop the child-care authorities, and police, from taking bruised children into care?
Where was your self satisfied preaching voice on that day?

What did you have to say about the Asian grooming gang in Rochdale, raping young girls for years (2004-2010)?
Nine were sentenced to prison.
What was that word, "scum"?

How do you feel about the Kent soldier attacked with a machete last week, or the video of an Asian youth riding on the outside of a double-decker bus, carrying a machete.

Or perhaps the machete fight in Southend last night, eight youths arrested.

We are seeing a breakdown of law and order, and nothing like this was happening before the country was flooded with migrants.
Who many, coincidentally, just happen to come from countries where wielding a machete in public is a normal occurrence.



What I am pointing out is taking place all around you. That last line above seems to me to be more applicable to yourself, you just refuse to see the broader picture. It is pretty clear who is spreading fake news, when the same unrest, caused by the same people, is having the same effect all across Europe.

I would suggest you stop following the self-entitled 'nice people' and question everything 'they' say, because it's my experience 'they' are full of lies.
If you dig deep enough you will find an incendiary group called Hope not Hate, yet their philosophy is geared to Hate for anyone who challenges their Wokist agenda.
The founder of the group has a personal vendetta against certain people & groups he wants to eliminate.

Of all the blights on our politics, there are few more tedious than the left-wing campaign group that masquerades behind some poorly constructed frontispiece.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-sinister-tactics-of-hope-not-hate/

They pose as an anti-fascist group, while in fact they are quite the opposite.
This group are in some way behind most of the lies & deceit spread in the media, and on YouTube, and you seem to soak it up.
I can only hope you would pay as much attention to this as you have to Maybrick's Diary.

There are no words, Jon.

Carry on fighting the 'good' fight then - if that's seriously what you think you are doing here in the JtR Pub. If it keeps you away from commenting on other forms of social media, where people are infinitely more gullible and far easier to wind up into mindless violence against the wrong people, I'd call that a win.

[Wickerman]

I do firmly agree that people, as with children, learn better by experience. You can't always convince a child the stove is hot, they have to burn their fingers first, before they will learn.
So we can revisit this thread when Starmer's govt. has fallen, or in 4-5 years when Labour is replaced by a more right leaning govt.
We'll see how the UK has changed or suffered, and how Europe has managed to resist the 'invasion', if they can.

The next five years are going to be really interesting, you just better get practicing your "allahu akbar", five times every day.

[Svensson]

So in 5 years time, how would you measure that your prediction has come true?

[Wickerman]

So in 5 years time, how would you measure that your prediction has come true?

I'll tell you in five years.
Right now anyone can see a massive difference in only 3 weeks of Starmer's management, now there's evolving anarchy in the streets. Whether this is a blip in the normal peaceful conduct of the average British citizenry, as were the riots in Bristol, only time will tell.

Starmer didn't begin his speech in the impartial fashion of a responsible politician.
He claimed his "govnt. of Service" will not point fingers,......then moments later ascribed street violence to "the far-right".
No mention of the anarchy in Harehills last week with Asians setting fire to a bus, & police car, throwing bricks and destroying property. No mention of Bangladeshi riots in Whitechapel - no sign of any "far-right" involvement in either anarchistic revolt.

Starmer has branded 'Working-class white' as the new 'far-right', by his response to his own failure to acknowledge the true cause of the unrest.

Any resistance to Starmer's evolving "Stasi" regime will be crushed. He intends to control the movement of anyone 'they' deem 'non-compliant' - you wait and see. The two-tier policing, evident at all the protests, is just the beginning.