Election

[Wickerman]

So isn't it rather absurd to claim that such an experiment would be tried in the UK, by this Labour government, with any hope of succeeding where Germany failed?

That's called 'learning from the mistakes of others', you'll probably find governments in general often fail to learn from other's mistakes.
On the other hand, it might not be Starmer's decision, there are those within his party who could make certain demands to force his hand.

At least Labour soon put a stop to the insanely expensive and unworkable Rwanda experiment, which no sane Tory should ever have supported, so credit where it's due.

Thousands of migrants fled to the Republic of Ireland - have you seen the chaos & riots going on over there?
The migrants fled there to avoid being sent to Rwanda - they openly said so themselves. Isn't the BBC reporting this?
Migrants held back in Calais to see the results of the election, they didn't want to go to the UK if they risked being sent to Rwanda. The BBC haven't told you this either?
Other European countries said they were considering signing up to the Rwanda deal just before the election.
The very threat of being sent to Rwanda was having an effect.

You don't seem to know half the story, no wonder you are so blinkered in your opinions.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

[caz]

Pot kettle, Jon.

I don't know where you are getting all your misinformation, but almost as soon as you post it, the facts come along to prove you wrong - yet again.

Under the Tories, there was no legal way for a genuine asylum seeker to enter the UK and have their case assessed, so all those arriving in small boats - which was still happening right up until the election, regardless of all the Tory threats and promises - were treated as illegal immigrants and the numbers just kept going up and up. Deterrent, my arse. For too many of these human beings, the only form of hope they had was no hope.

Under Labour, it would merely be a return to the basic humanity we showed before, when new arrivals with a potential claim to asylum were given a lifeline while their cases were assessed, and those with no such claim were deported as illegal immigrants. Failed asylum seekers would face the same outcome if they hadn't already disappeared.

Incidentally, the winter fuel allowance will continue for all those already receiving pension credit in order to make ends meet, while the huge number of us who don't actually need any financial help with our energy bills and didn't ask for it, will be able to feel a warm glow inside just knowing that our allowance can now be used for the greater good. In my case, I got a ludicrous £500 in free money last November and the winter before under the Tories, and you can't just send it back to the DWP and ask for an illegal immigrant instead, so much of my allowance went to support local charities one way or another. I'd much sooner the money went towards pay rises for NHS doctors and nurses, who will hopefully be there for all pensioners, rich and poor, at the point of need.

[Wickerman]

Pot kettle, Jon.

I don't know where you are getting all your misinformation, but almost as soon as you post it, the facts come along to prove you wrong - yet again.

It seems you are confusing opinion, with fact.

Under the Tories, there was no legal way for a genuine asylum seeker to enter the UK and have their case assessed,...

Genuine Asylum seekers have arrived at airports. The govt. give asylum seekers a loan to pay for transportation to the UK - typically a flight. Which they are required to pay back after they have been settled for 12 months.
That is the fact of the matter.

...so all those arriving in small boats - which was still happening right up until the election, regardless of all the Tory threats and promises - were treated as illegal immigrants and the numbers just kept going up and up. Deterrent, my arse. For too many of these human beings, the only form of hope they had was no hope.

Why don't you try looking at the govt. web site...

In the year ending March 2024, there were 38,546 irregular arrivals, 28% fewer than in the year ending March 2023, and 81% of these arrived by small boats.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-march-2024/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-march-2024

What about the previous quarter, ending in Dec. 2023?

In 2023, there were 36,704 irregular arrivals, one-third (33%) fewer than in 2022, and 80% of these arrived on small boats.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-december-2023/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-december-2023

And, the previous quarter, ending in Sept. 2023?

In the year ending September 2023, there were 45,081 detected irregular arrivals to the UK, down 16% from the year ending September 2022, 83% of these arrived via small boats. In July to September 2023, detected irregular arrivals were 33% lower than in July to September 2022.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-september-2023/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-september-2023

The Rwanda plan was announced in April 2022.

The truth is the Rwanda plan had an affect on the numbers coming over.
Lower, lower and lower....in each case.

[Wickerman]

Sorry Caz, my previous reply was pulled from the Canadian source - it is Canada that offers a loan to help Asylum Seekers get to Canada.
However, the point you made below (hi-lited) was quite wrong. They arrive by plane at any major airport where customs will provide the help-line below.

Under the Tories, there was no legal way for a genuine asylum seeker to enter the UK and have their case assessed, so all those arriving in small boats - which was still happening right up until the election, regardless of all the Tory threats and promises - were treated as illegal immigrants and the numbers just kept going up and up...

This is the help line suggested by the UK Govt. for all Asylum Seekers.

https://ellis.custhelp.com/app/answers/list/c/646/session/L3RpbWUvMTcyMjM5MDYyMy9nZW4vMTcyMjM5MDYyMy9zaWQvZlVkempjSDZmMTh2ZjlmbVRFMlVKT1g0UmVvMU1PdEdvQ0hwYW1vNldIcE1UWWhueEc3UlVETkFDUlJzZVdVRk1DVk1hM2liY3pJVXl4JTdFQnh2X29VbSU3RXJTazlQTXZHdElVSE0wenc2R3VJNjlBVmE5Z0ozVXplZyUyMSUyMQ%3D%3D

So I'm not sure what you mean by 'no legal way' - it's all mapped out for them.

[Svensson]

It's an FAQ, no more than that. It tells people to apply for asylum at the earliest opportunity and where they can apply without preemptying the outcome of the application. It does not, and can not, tell anyone how to ensure that thier application is going to be succesful.

[Tab]

Sorry Caz, my previous reply was pulled from the Canadian source - it is Canada that offers a loan to help Asylum Seekers get to Canada.
However, the point you made below (hi-lited) was quite wrong. They arrive by plane at any major airport where customs will provide the help-line below.



This is the help line suggested by the UK Govt. for all Asylum Seekers.
https://ellis.custhelp.com/app/answers/list/c/646/session/L3RpbWUvMTcyMjM5MDYyMy9nZW4vMTcyMjM5MDYyMy9zaWQvZl VkempjSDZmMTh2ZjlmbVRFMlVKT1g0UmVvMU1PdEdvQ0hwYW1v NldIcE1UWWhueEc3UlVETkFDUlJzZVdVRk1DVk1hM2liY3pJVX l4JTdFQnh2X29VbSU3RXJTazlQTXZHdElVSE0wenc2R3VJNjlB VmE5Z0ozVXplZyUyMSUyMQ%3D%3D

So I'm not sure what you mean by 'no legal way' - it's all mapped out for them.

I think you are conflating humanitarian immigration and asylum seekers. There a several humanitarian routes available from places like Ukraine, Hong Kong, Afghanistan. These people apply in their own countries and only come to the UK once resettlement has been granted and they have a place to stay. There are also routes for family of those already in the UK or have UK ties. These are not asylum seekers.

There are no safe and legal routes to travel to the UK to claim asylum. I am not sure exactly what changes this labour government are going to make, but currently the ONLY way to claim asylum in the UK is to be physically present here, and there are no visa routes available to get here for the purposes of claiming asylum. So the only way to actually get here to claim asylum is illegally - by plane, boat or hand glider, it doesn't matter.

All the best,
Tab

[caz]

It seems you are confusing opinion, with fact.



Genuine Asylum seekers have arrived at airports. The govt. give asylum seekers a loan to pay for transportation to the UK - typically a flight. Which they are required to pay back after they have been settled for 12 months.
That is the fact of the matter.



Why don't you try looking at the govt. web site...

In the year ending March 2024, there were 38,546 irregular arrivals, 28% fewer than in the year ending March 2023, and 81% of these arrived by small boats.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-march-2024/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-march-2024

What about the previous quarter, ending in Dec. 2023?

In 2023, there were 36,704 irregular arrivals, one-third (33%) fewer than in 2022, and 80% of these arrived on small boats.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-december-2023/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-december-2023

And, the previous quarter, ending in Sept. 2023?

In the year ending September 2023, there were 45,081 detected irregular arrivals to the UK, down 16% from the year ending September 2022, 83% of these arrived via small boats. In July to September 2023, detected irregular arrivals were 33% lower than in July to September 2022.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-september-2023/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-september-2023

The Rwanda plan was announced in April 2022.

The truth is the Rwanda plan had an affect on the numbers coming over.
Lower, lower and lower....in each case.

You have a very black and white view of cause and effect, don't you, Jon?

So did the Tories, when they slapped Rishi Sunak on the back for single-handedly bringing down inflation, when it had bugger all to do with anything he did.

If an immigrant arrives by airplane and is given the right to stay, it's a totally different situation from anyone arriving on a small boat and then trying to claim asylum. For those poor devils, it was Rwanda or the deep blue sea.

At least Rwanda is a predominantly Christian country.

It appears that the seriously disturbed teenager who fatally stabbed three young girls in Southport on Monday was born in Cardiff and is of Rwandan descent. Because of the total bastards spreading fake news on facebook and twitter, such as claiming that the killer was a boat person from Syria, fifty police officers were injured at a vigil held for the victims in Southport last night, when gangs of thugs wearing balaclavas poured in from outside the area intent on violence.

This is why it is so bloody dangerous and irresponsible for people to sit at their keyboards whipping up the baser instincts of thickos with brain cells in single figures. All those poor children and parents trying to come to terms with this awful tragedy, and the emergency services who attended the scene, have been violated all over again by hate-fuelled scum who had no concern or pity for them, but only anger aimed in entirely the wrong direction.

A popular lie will travel round the world before a less popular truth can get its trousers on.

I really urge you to think about this, Jon, because it seems like you are being beguiled by bad actors who want you to do their bidding by spreading fake news.

[Tab]

It seems you are confusing opinion, with fact.



Genuine Asylum seekers have arrived at airports. The govt. give asylum seekers a loan to pay for transportation to the UK - typically a flight. Which they are required to pay back after they have been settled for 12 months.
That is the fact of the matter.



Why don't you try looking at the govt. web site...

In the year ending March 2024, there were 38,546 irregular arrivals, 28% fewer than in the year ending March 2023, and 81% of these arrived by small boats.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-march-2024/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-march-2024

What about the previous quarter, ending in Dec. 2023?

In 2023, there were 36,704 irregular arrivals, one-third (33%) fewer than in 2022, and 80% of these arrived on small boats.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-december-2023/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-december-2023

And, the previous quarter, ending in Sept. 2023?

In the year ending September 2023, there were 45,081 detected irregular arrivals to the UK, down 16% from the year ending September 2022, 83% of these arrived via small boats. In July to September 2023, detected irregular arrivals were 33% lower than in July to September 2022.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-september-2023/irregular-migration-to-the-uk-year-ending-september-2023

The Rwanda plan was announced in April 2022.

The truth is the Rwanda plan had an affect on the numbers coming over.
Lower, lower and lower....in each case.

To be honest I am surprised you are taking this government data at face value, you know, with how much they lie to us and skew data to keep us subjugated.

This is actually a pretty good source of data in all honestly, and if you scroll to the end of the summaries you can actually download all the raw data to analyse yourself which is neat. I would like to point out that the phrase 'irregular arrivals' includes all forms of irregular migration, including visa over stays, those arriving by air without documentation, those arriving by ferry etc... it is not just small boat crossings.

The data suggests that several world events over the last 6 years that this data covers, could account for the swings in 'irregular arrivals'. The total small boat arrivals for 2018 for example was just 299, and in 2022 it was a 45,774. It doesn't take much to look at the world around this 6 year timeframe are see what might have caused the increase. It peaked in 2022 and has been decreasing since. I would suggest it is simply returning to its base level because of the various humanitarian routes that have been put in place, as well as other policies and collaborations with other countries regarding human trafficking etc... Personally, I think the Rwanda plan has little do with it.

All the best,
Tab

[caz]

The Tories also managed to stop all the rampaging elephants arriving on our shores causing mayhem.

How many has anyone seen over the last 14 years? Answer me that.

I expect it'll be trampled pensioners and elephant poo everywhere you go before long, under Labour.

Tusk tusk.

[Wickerman]

It's an FAQ, no more than that. It tells people to apply for asylum at the earliest opportunity and where they can apply without preemptying the outcome of the application. It does not, and can not, tell anyone how to ensure that thier application is going to be succesful.

The assistance they offer is explained, so the applicant can make a thorough application.

We can advise you in your language on topics such as:
• How to claim asylum
• Navigating the asylum process
• Applying for asylum support including accommodation
• Finding legal representation
• Accessing healthcare
• Post-decision period
• Other asylum and post-asylum claim related matters

The honest Asylum Seeker is then better prepared to make their application. This is the help that Caz says did not exist.

[Svensson]

The Tories also managed to stop all the rampaging elephants arriving on our shores causing mayhem.

How many has anyone seen over the last 14 years? Answer me that.

Don't jinx it.

[Wickerman]

Illegal male migrants have paid £5000 in recent years for a seat on a dingy, since the Rwanda deal was announced the price dropped to less than £1000.
Why are these men paying so much when you can get a bus through the tunnel, or a flight from Paris to make a legal application for as little as £25, or less?

Why - because these dishonest male migrants have destroyed their identification papers & passports.
And, we are supposed to think these men (not families), are all poor asylum seekers - just because they say so?

Do you believe everything these people tell you?

What about officials in Niger & Cameroon, Albania & Poland who say a lot of criminals hunted by their police are joining the wave of migrants to escape the law in their countries to set up business in Europe, or Britain?
Albanians are proven Lords of the European drug trade, yet over 10,000 male Albanians entered the UK by boat.
Albania is not a 'dangerous' country (Tourism sources) - unless you're a criminal in the drug trade.

I guess you call the officials liars, and the (so-called) asylum seekers are truthful?
Or, maybe you don't want to face the truth.

[Tab]

The assistance they offer is explained, so the applicant can make a thorough application.

We can advise you in your language on topics such as:
• How to claim asylum
• Navigating the asylum process
• Applying for asylum support including accommodation
• Finding legal representation
• Accessing healthcare
• Post-decision period
• Other asylum and post-asylum claim related matters

The honest Asylum Seeker is then better prepared to make their application. This is the help that Caz says did not exist.

Those goal posts shifted so quickly I got whiplash. All this is assistance is received once they are HERE and have claimed asylum. The getting here in the first place to claim asylum was the illegal part. There are no legal routes for asylum seekers to enter the UK.

All the best,
Tab

[Tab]

Illegal male migrants have paid £5000 in recent years for a seat on a dingy, since the Rwanda deal was announced the price dropped to less than £1000.

Source?

Why are these men paying so much when you can get a bus through the tunnel, or a flight from Paris to make a legal application for as little as £25, or less?

There are no words to describe this level of intellectual dishonesty. "Just jump on a plane for £25, duh! What are these people thinking getting on small boat to cross the sea!"

Why - because these dishonest male migrants have destroyed their identification papers & passports.
And, we are supposed to think these men (not families), are all poor asylum seekers - just because they say so?

Do you believe everything these people tell you?

Why did they have to approach these people in the first place to get them here, when they could have just packed their bags that morning and drove to the airport according to you??? Do you hear yourself?

We are not supposed to believe everything they tell us, that's why there is a process involved in determining who are genuine asylum seekers that need our help. What is your alternative to investigating their claims? Shoot them on sight? Get a mind reader involved?

What about officials in Niger & Cameroon, Albania & Poland who say a lot of criminals hunted by their police are joining the wave of migrants to escape the law in their countries to set up business in Europe, or Britain?
Albanians are proven Lords of the European drug trade, yet over 10,000 male Albanians entered the UK by boat.
Albania is not a 'dangerous' country (Tourism sources) - unless you're a criminal in the drug trade.

I guess you call the officials liars, and the (so-called) asylum seekers are truthful?
Or, maybe you don't want to face the truth.

Blanket statements blah blah blah. Criminals will be criminals and do criminal things, shocking! Lets class all asylum seekers as criminals then we can just ship them all off out of sight and not have to worry them. Except the ones that come by plane apparently, they're OK. Or Not... maybe??. I can't quite tell from your ramblings.

Tab

[Wickerman]

I think you are conflating humanitarian immigration and asylum seekers. There a several humanitarian routes available from places like Ukraine, Hong Kong, Afghanistan. These people apply in their own countries and only come to the UK once resettlement has been granted and they have a place to stay. There are also routes for family of those already in the UK or have UK ties. These are not asylum seekers.

Rubbish!

The link itself tells you it is for Asylum Seekers, Migrant Help, Claiming Asylum, Asylum Services, Main Asylum Interview...

This is precisely what I talk about, people like you whitewashing the issue, trying to say Asylum help is for Humanitarian claims.

We CAN read you know, regardless of what you try to misrepresent.