Election

[caz]

You're confusing apples with oranges.
Ukrainian mothers with children are already westernized, they know right from wrong, they follow western customs, they obey the laws of their new host country.
They have manners.
They don't go around slandering Jews, threatening Christians, carrying on like the UK is their country.
You can't hope to address the problems if you do not understand what 4 million +, voters have voted for.

There's another govt. document I turned up yesterday that listed Migrants applying for Asylum who have a polygamous relationship (more than one wife), can receive about £350, and £114 for each additional wife, per month. Muslims, I think, are allowed 4 wives. At least those I spoke to in Egypt said that was the case.

I don't know if you are old enough to remember the Conservative party of the 50' - 70's, this Reform party are only promoting the same values. Sunak's Conservatives are not Conservative any more, they have shifted to a Left-wing party, which is why a lot of Brit's say they have two parties on the left, but nothing on the right.
Both the Labor & Cons. are basically the same, no significant difference.
Reform have taken up the banner of the old Conservatives; Secure Borders, Reduce Immigration, Lower Taxes, Scrap Net Zero, Reform the NHS to be fit for purpose, bolster police, Leave the ECHR, and so on.
A return to a basic Conservative platform.
This is what over 4 million voters preferred.

Why this is related to your post is, once the adults (Reform) do get in to power the laws covering immigration will be tightened so that any applicant must:
- Prove who they are.
- Show proof of education.
- Prove they have an adequate grasp of the English language.
- Swear to follow & acknowledge all laws & customs.
and so on.

Every country must have the ability to decide who enters their country, and how many.

Happily, four million voters - and those who left our country many years ago - do not get to decide for the rest of us how things ought to be.

I don't think I have ever read so much nonsense in Pub Talk before. I would like to think it was the drink talking, but I suspect it was the bile.

[caz]

I've already met one juvenile who reduced the debate to name-calling....
Are there any adults left in the UK?

If name-calling doesn't include calling people you disagree with 'woke', it doesn't include calling a massive tosser like Farage a massive tosser.

I doubt the massive tosser himself gives a toss what either of us thinks. He has been too busy defending what Putin is doing to Ukraine.

[caz]

Hi Mike,

Australia is a young country, established as a penal colony. When convicts had served their time they somehow considered themselves superior to the indigenous Australians whose only crime was that they were perceived as having the temerity to occupy the King's land before his subjects arrived. My ancestors have been here for 200 years, at which stage the Aboriginals had nurtured the land for 40,000 years.

The original migrants were "ten pound pommes". Many suggested we give them twenty pounds to go back to Britain. But they were hard workers and added to the society. The next "outrage" was migration from Greece and Italy. Once again they assimilated, and the country was better for their cultural influences (and their food). There was concern regarding the immigration from south east Asia, particularly Vietnam, but once again the first generation of descendants fully adopted the culture of their adopted country.

The latest migration is from the middle east, and so far this has not matched the success of previous immigrations. It appears that the principals of the revolutions in the middle east that re-established Sharia law are being carried with the refugees who are purportedly escaping that regime, but who wish to establish that regime over the stable customs of the country to which they have fled. Australian governments have been hard on illegal refugees....some even suggest too hard, and the cost of interment is crippling. Regrettably, governments tend to use immigrants as scapegoats for their own indolence and incompetence (Labor less than others).

Having put my 75 years, not out, on the scoreboard, I hold hope for my children and grand-children's future. I survived change, including immigration, and I suppose that they will also. It should always be kept in mind that we are talking about people, not just statistics.

Cheers, George

Great post, George.

I have considerable trouble working out why anyone would consider themselves superior human beings in any way, shape or form, if they are constantly having to kick people who are already down. Born three-nil up and they think they have scored a hat trick.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

I think it’s time I left this forum. I don’t wish to be in the same room as some of vile people in here.
Goodbye.

Please don't leave, String! I trust we are not all as vile as each other.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Hi, Svensson. I'm not a fan of these 'buzzwords' like erm buzzword haha. I hate all the corporate BS with 'touching base' etc so I'm not a fan of the term gaslighting etc. It just does not sit right with me. It's for me another 'wokey' word to help bolster the fact 'I'm offended' and you have made me upset and I want justice from you!!!
In this very thread I got attacked for basically saying the capital city of my home country does not feel, for want of a better term 'British.' This was a true observation. I got labelled racist and Xenophobic. I was absolutely not being those things I was making an observation. I also stated I was unhappy that people coming from other countries are trying to change British culture and way of life which in my opinion is disrespectful. It's the when in Rome type of affair. Again an observation not X or R but there we have it.
Too many folk nowadays are quick to jump in with the wokey buzzwords, the R and X card and of course the 'I'm offended' rubbish. This country is deteriorating fast and yes there are plenty of reasons but for me (an observation) one of them is immigrants wishing for Britain to change to suit them instead of them changing to suit Britain.

Hopefully this time I've made my points without being called X or R.

How many people who don't happen to share your culture or way of life have tried to change your own, Geddy?

Are you really the kind of snowflake who would let anyone do that to you, whether it was a close Polish relative or an Indian neighbour?

If anyone tried to dictate to me how to live my life I'd tell them to shove off and mind their own business. And I wouldn't try to mind it for them.

I do feel for all the angry people out there who allow themselves to be manipulated by imaginary fiends. Must be awful.

[Wickerman]

If name-calling doesn't include calling people you disagree with 'woke', it doesn't include calling a massive tosser like Farage a massive tosser.

I doubt the massive tosser himself gives a toss what either of us thinks. He has been too busy defending what Putin is doing to Ukraine.

You clearly are not aware that being called "woke" is not "name-calling", as I explained earlier. It is a genuine position to take, but the position has been hijacked by radicals to use as a weapon to get their own minority views into mainstream.

Perhaps you are still wedded to the original meaning of the term, as I can't imagine you feel it is acceptable for men who think they are women, to enter women's toilets, or have multi-gender'ism taught in the Junior schools, or have men, who think they are women, taking part in sports against biological females.

If that represents your views of being "woke" then you don't sound like the same Caz I've known for, what? - nearly 30 years?

[Wickerman]

Please don't leave, String! I trust we are not all as vile as each other.

Love,

Caz
X

String is playing 'the victim' card, looking for sympathy. Don't loose any sleep over it, if he realizes he isn't getting the attention, he'll be back.

[caz]

It's hardly "alleged" when it is publicly available on the internet.
We can either stick our heads in the sand, or face reality and address the problems head-on.

What exactly is your problem with desperate people coming to the UK and failing to drown on the way? Labour has killed off the rancid and unworkable Rwanda plan so they are unlikely to put a different one in place, to send the survivors your way.

Is there no 'wokery' jiggery-pokery in your own back yard to muck out?

[caz]

String is playing 'the victim' card, looking for sympathy. Don't loose any sleep over it, if he realizes he isn't getting the attention, he'll be back.

Ah, another buzzword - from a self-confessed victim of all those ghastly foreigners who can even plague your nightmares from thousands of miles away.

[Geddy2112]

Maybe it's more a case of self-gaslighting when someone's own perception of reality comes from a place that is so far removed - factually, figuratively and literally - from the reality of living in the UK?

Hi Caz, sorry to bring this racist and xenophobic point up (it's not btw it was a perfectly factual observation), but are you trying to say when I said I was the only white man on the street in London that I was living in a fantasy land and it simply was not true, my eyes were deceiving me? Or is it as I hope I'm missing the point here?

[rjpalmer]

As an example, a small minority want to change the national school curriculum to impose their multi-gender philosophy on every school child.

This is teaching lies about biology to radicalise future generations.

I'm sorry to see you write this nonsense, Wick, and I suspect your head has been turned by watching too much rightwing propaganda

I know biology teachers--I even live in a blue state--and this is not happening. There is no secret cabal of gay science teachers trying to create a future of radical gays.

What I think is happening is that this is nothing more than a myth created by right-wing think tanks because they want to save even more tax dollars for the ultra-wealthy by defunding public education.

At the same time, they want to make the taxpayers pay for "vouchers" so they can send their children to private religious schools at our expense--which is obviously unconstitutional and goes against the separation of church and state.

In the worse districts, the "lies about biology" include teaching the Biblical Creation story (an obvious anti-scientific myth or doctrine or faith-based belief system) side-by-side with proven science.

As such, which "small minority" is really pulling the strings?

These scare tactics have a very well-planned agenda behind them, in my opinion. There are two sides to every coin.

[Geddy2112]

How many people who don't happen to share your culture or way of life have tried to change your own, Geddy?

I'm sorry but it appears you are missing the point and I'm not the only one to make it here. Out of respect I do not think anyone who decides to go and live in a new country, wherever that may be should demand said country to change to suit them. Out of respect they should change to suit their new home not vice-versa.
I'm not the one being the snowflake here it's the ones who take perfectly innocent observations and brandish them racist or xenophobic who are the snowflakes.

[caz]

To be "woke" was originally a positive position to take. It was a term used to describe anyone who was looking out for things like; injustice, inequality & racial discrimination. Essentially, looking out for the rights of the minority, defending the "little guy".

Precisely.

What is unfortunate is this defense has turned into an ideology used by the minority to subjugate the majority.
The "little guy", through woke ideology is attempting to impose their minority views on the majority of the nation - which must be rejected at all levels.
Like they say - "give them an inch and they'll take a mile".

No. The word has been hijacked by people who are about as far from woke as it's possible to be, and they use it like a stick to beat the defenders of its original meaning.

[Wickerman]

How many people who don't happen to share your culture or way of life have tried to change your own, Geddy?

Are you really the kind of snowflake who would let anyone do that to you, whether it was a close Polish relative or an Indian neighbour?

If anyone tried to dictate to me how to live my life I'd tell them to shove off ....

Exactly!
See, you are not as "woke" as you pretend to be.

This is what is coming to the UK, radical Islamists (not mainstream Muslims), will impose Sharia on the population. They hate the Jews, they hate Christians, their religion controls their laws. Separation of church and state will be gone.
Is that what you want?

Make no mistake, mainstream Muslims do not support the views of radical Muslims.

In fact mainstream Muslims escaped the radical ideology in their home countries to live in the west where they have freedoms not available to them in the east.
The radicals are using the western political system against itself. They ARE integrating themselves into Leftist/Woke political parties to gain a foothold in western countries.
They know Leftist parties will bend to their demands, your new Labor party is the most recent example.

The Reform view is to draw your attention to what is happening, not anything to do with regular immigration, or the benevolence offered to Ukrainian families - completely different issues.

This is the problem in debating the issue. Reform are talking about uncontrolled migration, NOT legal immigration.
They are concerned about nameless, unidentified males of fighting age coming to the UK by the thousands, NOT Ukrainian mothers with children.

When some on here, in fact anywhere, try to defend the status quo, they always deflect from "unidentified males" to "Ukrainian families". Those are different issues, controlled immigration was always intended to discriminate between "desirables" and "undesirables", that is a basic immigration policy - just basic common sense.
Others on here try to confuse "illegal migrants" with "Asylum seekers", to make them sound more palatable.

Even the ECHR rules dictate an "Asylum seeker" MUST apply for asylum in the first available country from their flight to safety, NOT travel through 9, 10, 11 countries to reach Britain THEN claim asylum. No-one coming by boat from a safe country like France is an asylum seeker - they have committed a crime in paying the gangs to get across, by defacto they are criminals, "illegal migrants". They ALL need to be treated as such.

Sweden, Denmark, Poland, Hungary, Turkey (a brother Muslim country), have put laws & fencing into place to stop the flow of migrants, because of the drain on public funds & the sharp rise in crime and sexual deviation. France & Italy are struggling to create similar rules, France is now in a state of flux.

The UK is being invaded Caz, turning a blind eye is not the answer, abusive reactions by Wokist/Leftists, is also not the answer.

[Ms Diddles]

You're confusing apples with oranges.
Ukrainian mothers with children are already westernized, they know right from wrong, they follow western customs, they obey the laws of their new host country.
They have manners.
They don't go around slandering Jews, threatening Christians, carrying on like the UK is their country.
You can't hope to address the problems if you do not understand what 4 million +, voters have voted for.

No Wick, I am comparing apples with apples.

Sadly, Ukraine is a messed up, war-torn sh!t show.

So are Syria and Afghanistan etc

You are quite right that Ukrainian refugees have shown themselves to be polite, law abiding and keen to integrate and start work.

In this respect they are absolutely no different to the other thousand plus refugees that I have worked with over the years.

There's another govt. document I turned up yesterday that listed Migrants applying for Asylum who have a polygamous relationship (more than one wife Yeah, thanks, I got that!), can receive about £350, and £114 for each additional wife, per month. Muslims, I think, are allowed 4 wives. At least those I spoke to in Egypt said that was the case.

Please post.

My understanding is that visa's are only approved for one wife in polygamous families.

If I sound a little vague about this it is because polygamous families in the UK are like hens teeth.

I have genuinely NEVER met one in thirteen years of working with asylum seekers and refugees.

A stat I saw stated that there are less than 1000 polygamous families in the UK and a lot of them are not in receipt of benefits.

My instinct would be that you would be most likely to encounter polygamous people among the wealthy Arabs that one sees pulling up in limos outside Harrods or Tiffany's than attending their Job Centre appointments to claim Universal Credit.


I don't know if you are old enough to remember the Conservative party of the 50' - 70's, this Reform party are only promoting the same values. Sunak's Conservatives are not Conservative any more, they have shifted to a Left-wing party, which is why a lot of Brit's say they have two parties on the left, but nothing on the right.

Both the Labor & Cons. are basically the same, no significant difference.

Reform have taken up the banner of the old Conservatives; Secure Borders, Reduce Immigration, Lower Taxes, Scrap Net Zero, Reform the NHS to be fit for purpose, bolster police, Leave the ECHR, and so on.
A return to a basic Conservative platform.
This is what over 4 million voters preferred.

Yes, but the vast majority of voters would not entertain them.

Why this is related to your post is, once the adults (Reform) do get in to power the laws covering immigration will be tightened so that any applicant must:
- Prove who they are.
- Show proof of education.
- Prove they have an adequate grasp of the English language.
- Swear to follow & acknowledge all laws & customs.
and so on.

Every country must have the ability to decide who enters their country, and how many.

Reform will never get into power so it's a moot point.