Election

[Tab]

I too am at a loss and this is why I said a while ago that I intended to bow out of this conversation. It’s time to re-state it but this time to stick to it.

Awesome.

We don’t need to fact check everything.

We absolutely do.

Sadly Tab, all that you are doing is picking out the few ‘good bits’ and ignoring the issue as a whole because it makes for a sunnier outlook.

That's not what I am doing. I am calling out lies and misinformation when I see it. You have said things like these progressive Muslim organisations and charities can't exist in Muslim countries, I have then pointed out that in fact they do. You have said all Muslims are fundamentalists, me and others have pointed out that is, in fact, not the case. Instead of holding your hands up and saying you were wrong like an adult, apparently it is me 'fact checking' lies that is the problem.

Those groups require support but where does this come from ...

Certainly not from you, someone who is happy to tar an entire religion with the same hateful brush.

Perhaps, rather than telling us to look at the happier side of this argument you should take a look at the realities of what people are experiencing ‘on the ground’ rather that what left-wing support groups are telling you Tab. Go into the working class areas and see what’s going on.

...

Again not what I have been doing. I have been pointing out falsehoods which perpetuate hatred and fear. I am fully aware of the realities around me. I live in one of these working class areas in Greater London you like to wax lyrical about.

Sounds like you have voluntarily stopped learning and educating yourself. A genuine shame.

All the best,
Tab

[GBinOz]

Originally posted by GBinOz View Post
Hi Jon,

I was just wondering if the migrant invasion of America by the pilgrims was considered to be illegal? Or the subsequent rape and attempted genocide of the native Americans?

By what law?

I'm sure it will not end until both sides take up weapons, then there'll be blood in the streets and all because the governments will not deal with the problem. I can see a futuristic scenario beginning to take shape in Europe.

Hi Jon,

It appears that you endorse the principle that the only legitimate law is that formulated by the more successful English robber barons when they declared themselves to be the establishment, and argued by white men dressed in robes and powdered wigs. It was from that law that the pilgrims wished to escape to the New World, to set up their own new laws, which specifically excluded the native population. So why did these new laws and culture take precedence over that of the natives? As always, the force of arms.

I suspect, with considerable dread, that your final paragraph may turn out to be true. The nature of modern weaponry is such that an escalation in this regard will not provide a desired outcome for either side. This would seem inevitable while ever weaponry is preferred to diplomacy.

Cheers, George

[Karl]

Sadly Tab, all that you are doing is picking out the few ‘good bits’ and ignoring the issue as a whole because it makes for a sunnier outlook.

I apologize for butting in, but this is where I need to stop you. It's not Tab who is picking out the few good bits for a sunnier outlook, it's you picking out the few bad bits because it fits your narrative. By the very same statistics that Islamophobes like to quote, we know that the vast majority of Muslims are regular good guys. The "good bits" are not in minority. Like, at all. Indeed, how could any society possibly function if most of the people are bad apples?

[Wickerman]

It is a very complex issue indeed.

One of the hardest things to process and learn to deal with; is that while tempting, we simply cannot tarnish everyone with the same brush.

The men who chose to repeatedly rape a 13 year old in Newcastle are first and foremost; evil bas**rds.

Outside of that fact; it is perhaps misguided to blame their actions on their religion or belief system.

it is more a cultural issue than anything else....

As I posted previously, it's more to do with the men, than their beliefs.
Yet, statistics do not lie. Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Turkey, and others have noticed a sharp increase in rape since migrants entered their respective countries.
The presence of foreign migrants is the cause, debating whether culture or theology is the problem only sidesteps the central issue.


Operation Stovewood: Taxi driver who raped young girls in Rotherham jailed for 13 years

https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/news/operation-stovewood-taxi-driver-who-raped-young-girls-in-rotherham-jailed-for-13-years

Girl 'raped and strangled to death on sinking boat' in front of horrified mum

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/girl-raped-strangled-death-sinking-33123155

Turkish migrant arrested for allegedly raping 15-year-old girl in his car in Albany

https://nypost.com/2024/06/27/us-new...rl-in-his-car/

[Wickerman]

I apologize for butting in, but this is where I need to stop you. It's not Tab who is picking out the few good bits for a sunnier outlook, it's you picking out the few bad bits because it fits your narrative. By the very same statistics that Islamophobes like to quote, we know that the vast majority of Muslims are regular good guys. The "good bits" are not in minority. Like, at all. Indeed, how could any society possibly function if most of the people are bad apples?

Why the deflection, as has been stated in this thread numerous times - mainstream Muslims have been law abiding citizens for decades in the UK. The concern is with radicals, and their presence among boatloads of migrants.

They are obviously not going to raise their hand and admit they will rape young girls when they arrive to claim asylum. The best measure we have is to stop the flow.
Process the applicants off-shore, this is more likely to expose the fact most of these potential offenders are uneducated, hold extreme beliefs, and have no useful skills that will benefit the UK.
As is always the case with normal immigration procedures.

[Wickerman]

Is your benevolence wasted on migrants like this?

https://youtu.be/tw2yQ-LKu3M

[The Baron]

From Wiki:

"More than 24.1% of the world's population is Muslim, with an estimated total of approximately 1.9 billion Muslims are the majority in 49 countries, they speak hundreds of languages and come from diverse ethnic backgrounds. The city of Karachi has the largest Muslim population in the world."

If all of those are fundamentalists then you probably have to learn to live with them, since you will not be escaping them anytime soon.



The Baron

[caz]

Don't repeat the mistake Neville Chamberlain made....

I won't, Jon.

Whenever I have in my hand a piece of paper, I make sure the lavatory door is locked, so if any knuckle-dragging sex pest does happen to be lurking, in mens' or womens' clothing, or butt naked, they will have to break the door down. But any trans woman minding her own business can share the wash basin and a chin-wag with me, if she likes, after I've done mine.

But then, I don't have a problem like Iran does with people minding their own business who happen to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender.

I'm frankly shocked that you would have a problem with any of those traditionally vulnerable and persecuted minorities yourself, but sadly no longer surprised.

[Karl]

Why the deflection, as has been stated in this thread numerous times - mainstream Muslims have been law abiding citizens for decades in the UK. The concern is with radicals, and their presence among boatloads of migrants.

Perhaps if you read the post I was replying to, you would see that I was not deflecting in the slightest.

They are obviously not going to raise their hand and admit they will rape young girls when they arrive to claim asylum. The best measure we have is to stop the flow.

Now who's deflecting?

Process the applicants off-shore, this is more likely to expose the fact most of these potential offenders are uneducated, hold extreme beliefs, and have no useful skills that will benefit the UK.

None of those things are relevant in asylum applications. Granting asylum is a humanitarian effort, not "what can you do for us?" You also can't screen for potential offenders beyond looking at whether or not someone has form. As for extreme beliefs... hate to be the one to have to tell you, but your beliefs are pretty extreme. Not least because you seem to be advocating for a thought police. "We're only going to help you if you have correct thoughts." Way to win their hearts and minds.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Please post all further comments to Tab and Karl,

Number 7 Woke Street,
Fluffybunnyshire,
Soundbitesville.
Planet Notthisone.

Where everyone is lovely and kind and no one dislikes anyone else and no one ever says anything that might upset someone else. And when the streets are full of people saying ‘death to all infidels’ we know that it really means ‘why not pop round for a pot of tea and a slice of cake.’ And when the population tells you in poll after poll after poll after poll after poll that they have concerns then we can still ignore them because they don’t really mean it. Do they?

All of the things that have happened over the last few years, some of them mentioned on here, and there’s more that we’re all aware of and you can still say ‘hey there’s no problem,it’s just the right wing press making it all up.’ What is the point in constantly bringing up the moderates. Of course most Muslims are good people; it shouldn’t need stating like a mantra. But it’s not them that are the problem and I don’t see them weeding out the extremists from their communities.

You bring stuff up and you just get arrogance and condescension from in response Tab. Fine. Quote your percentages to the families of the people that died on 9/11. I’m sure that they’ll be impressed and made much lighter of heart that the future is so rosy. I recall Christopher Hitchens once mentioning a nightmare scenario…the possibility of an Iran with Nuclear weapons. Well, that’s another we can tick off the list.

Happy days.

[caz]

Your problem is, you are not willing to accept what is going on in the country, or indeed the world around you.
Had I taken the trouble to look up and post all the links, you would still reject the argument (you know it), none of those stories are a secret.

Have you heard the latest demands?
The Muslim Voting group want Starmer to include "Islamaphobia" as a criminal act, among 18 others.
Plus 11 demands concerning Gaza, one of which is to recognise the state of Palestine.

You can't recognise something that does not exist.

Local members are supposed to look after local issues; garbage, potholes, etc. - not international issues.

Geddy bursts into tears at the very idea that anyone would accuse him of Islamaphobia, so he evidently sees it as a distinctly unpleasant trait in other people. Perhaps you could soothe his fevered brow by reassuring him that anyone displaying genuine signs of this phobia will have issues 'upstairs'.

[caz]

Please stay.
At the end of the day most people believe what the mainstream media tells us, man on the moon, JFK, 9/11 etc etc. In a lot of cases we have no option to believe unless we were there so to speak. You only have to look at the House of Lechmere YouTube channel to bring s JtR theme to it all, look at all the comments on there saying how they believe. Why because Ed told them so on the 'telly' so it must be true.
We rely on accurate accounts of events. However with the dawn of the mobile phone camera and YouTube we may get a different perspective. The main stream media is controlled, it's got an agenda. It tells us what they want us to know. If you want an alternative you either have to go out there and open your eyes or scratch away at the surface.
I agree with your sentiments regarding the UK, I'm not sure it will take until 2070 though at the rate we are going. But when it does and it will where will be the far left wing and their views then? What did David Icke say about the rectangle in the corner of the living room?

It's not the far left who did their best to make us a third world country, Geddy; it was deliberate Tory policy and spin doctoring, by the filthy rich who stood to get richer at the expense of the people they were elected to serve. So many ordinary UK voters fell for it, hook, line and sinker, in their rose-tinted desire to propel us all backwards, like boats against the current, to a past they wouldn't wish on their worst enemy if they were thinking clearly.

[Geddy2112]

Geddy bursts into tears at the very idea that anyone would accuse him of Islamophobia, so he evidently sees it as a distinctly unpleasant trait in other people. Perhaps you could soothe his fevered brow by reassuring him that anyone displaying genuine signs of this phobia will have issues 'upstairs'.

Wow. I'm sorry caz but there is not much correct in that statement. I do not like being accused of being Islamophobic or xenophobic or racist when I'm not. I'm sure you would not like to be accused of something you were not guilty of. Me making observations about Whitechapel, London, Leeds, Bradford, Halifax, Liverpool, Cardiff or Durham IS not racist, xenophobic or Islamophobic and it's very wrong and naïve to think it is so.

As someone who has qualifications in psychology and mental health issues I can assure you your last comment about 'that anyone displaying genuine signs of this phobia will have issues 'upstairs'' is rather insulting to say the least and shows how completely out of touch you are. Phobias by their definition are fears, that does not mean a person with a fear has 'upstairs' issues. I really thought you were better than that, obviously not.

I guess what you are trying to say is people who are Islamophobic are mentally unhinged or should be treated the same as dog shit or something. To be fair 'Islamophobic' should not even be a word, it's not a fear in the same sense being shit scared of spiders or sharks. Lets stick with 'Anti-Islam' shall we? And no I'm not that either...

[caz]

There are still some out there who have a spine... and know right from wrong, thankfully.

Notice how the Governments Mouthpiece (BBC) talk of him wanting to be a martyre, yet he tried to kill himself among innocent citizens?
He could Martyre himself out on Ilkley Moore, away from everyone.
The Beeb don't want to let the public know he has to take none-believers with him to be a Martyre - in the eyes of the radicals.
That might upset too many Lefties at the breakfast table...

You have a very strange idea about the BBC, Jon. If anything, the balance shifted to the right a long while ago, with toxic tories who knew bugger all being invited to spout their utter tripe alongside genuine independent experts "in the interests of balance". Balance, my arse.

Up until recently, one of Boris Johnson's right wing cronies was in charge of the BBC, but he resigned when it was revealed that he had given Boris a hefty loan so the incorrigible liar could keep up with his extravagant lifestyle.

[caz]

Perhaps he was warning everyone that migrant boats will then have direct access to the east end?

Don't you worry about that, Jon. One of those lovely Reform members offered to shoot survivors in the small boats before they land.

Slight problem with that if this charmer wants to bring back the rope for murderers. But you can't educate mince.

With growing numbers of supporters, Reform should soon be able to deal with all the hungry and exhausted 'invaders' trying to flood into our green and thoroughly unpleasant land without drowning on the way.