Election

[The Baron]

Yes, I’d ban fishing using hooks. I’d also ban any kind of hunting for fun.

In the spirit of the moment, I am going now to buy a freshly slaughtered Chicken, without stunning, thats how many farmers in USA kill their chicken everyday , and I will eat it while thinking of you!


The Baron

[Herlock Sholmes]

Do Fish Feel Pain When They Get Hooked?

Fish have nociceptors in their mouths, so it stands to reason that they’d feel pain when their lips are pierced with a metal hook. The science backs this up as well; in her 2019 study, Sneddon wrote that “when the fish’s lips are given a painful stimulus, they rub the mouth against the side of the tank, much like we rub our toe when we stub it.


Do Fish Feel Pain When They Suffocate?

Suffocation is a common form of death for farmed fish. It can be an incredibly drawn-out process, with some fish species taking over an hour to die from asphyxiation. It also produces a severe stress reaction: Fish will flap, gasp, wriggle and flail while they’re asphyxiating, as they accumulate lactic acid in their muscles and succumb to rigor mortis


So what do you say, do we stop fishing?!

Or maybe you advice to stun the fish before?!

Ah and the wild animals, did you see them hunting a poor deer, cutting it and eating it alive, what should we do to protect against such a barbaric behaviour?!



The Baron

Yes, I’d ban fishing using hooks. I’d also ban any kind of hunting for fun.

I’ve just done something that you rarely, if ever, do. I gave a clear, unequivocal answer to a question. What will come from you? My guesses are either:

a) You will ignore it and not respond because it’s not the answer that you wanted.
b) Same some nonsense like “I know what you really think…etc”
c) You will move the goalposts to include any animal dying in any way.
d) You will simply change the subject.

So I suggest one of the above… and I have to say that I have a 100% success rate on the ‘guess The Baron’s next tactic’ game.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thanks for the link, Herlock. Signed. Good work.

No problem Jon. We appear to have a couple here who don’t feel that it’s a good cause. Glad to see that doesn’t apply to all.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Like you care. Muslims are already mandated to kill the animal as quickly and painlessly as possible, by their own religious tenets. The main discomfort for the animals is in any case taking place before the animal is killed, in transit - and then, ultimately, when they see - and hear - what awaits them. The most humane ways of slaughter entails the knackerman coming to the farm, killing the animal in familiar surroundings. If you care so much about animal welfare, you can easily eliminate all religious practices and it would still leave atrocities aplenty to make you a vegetarian. If you really cared about animal suffering, you'd attack industrial slaughterhouses before you attacked anything else.

Yes, nice attempt at side-stepping to draw attention away from the original point.

”Like you care.”

Ok, you know how I think now.

I’ll point out again….the RSPCA who are not a political organisation, and who aren’t even singling out Muslims because their aim applies to Jewish slaughter too, are campaigning to remove the ‘get out clause’ which currently makes Muslims and Jews exempt from non-stunned killing. If you believe that the exemption should remain have the integrity to state that without a paragraph of obfuscation.

That a percentage of Muslim ritually killed animals are stunned first is commendable but clearly this is nothing like across the board as the RSPCA would be campaigning. That you don’t appear to agree with that campaign combined with your other comments seems to me show that you are allowing anger, personal dislike and a desire to ‘win’ an argument to cloud your judgment.

[Jon Guy]

Here’s the RSPCA’s campaign to ban the barbaric non-stun slaughter and to end the exemption for religious groups which anyone can sign up to.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/slaughter

Thanks for the link, Herlock. Signed. Good work.

[Wickerman]

If there is a significant Muslim population in the area, it may still be a business decision, as they'd have a broader customer base.

Thats the point, there isn't.

[The Baron]

Do Fish Feel Pain When They Get Hooked?

Fish have nociceptors in their mouths, so it stands to reason that they’d feel pain when their lips are pierced with a metal hook. The science backs this up as well; in her 2019 study, Sneddon wrote that “when the fish’s lips are given a painful stimulus, they rub the mouth against the side of the tank, much like we rub our toe when we stub it.


Do Fish Feel Pain When They Suffocate?

Suffocation is a common form of death for farmed fish. It can be an incredibly drawn-out process, with some fish species taking over an hour to die from asphyxiation. It also produces a severe stress reaction: Fish will flap, gasp, wriggle and flail while they’re asphyxiating, as they accumulate lactic acid in their muscles and succumb to rigor mortis


So what do you say, do we stop fishing?!

Or maybe you advice to stun the fish before?!

Ah and the wild animals, did you see them hunting a poor deer, cutting it and eating it alive, what should we do to protect against such a barbaric behaviour?!



The Baron

[Karl]

I remember one poster claiming the choice by KFC was probably a business decision. I doubted that, but here is the lowdown on the Halal process - "typically more expensive" - we'll, that blows that idea out of the water.
(yes, I know it says 'affordable', but read on.)

https://hmacanada.org/halal-meat-ove...ell-organized/

If there is a significant Muslim population in the area, it may still be a business decision, as they'd have a broader customer base.

[Karl]

RSPCA:

https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/slaughter/religiousslaughter

In 2022, 24.5 million animals were predicted to be killed without pre-stunning.
Just under 1% of cattle would be killed without pre-stunning.
2.3% of sheep would be killed without pre-stunning.
22.6% of sheep would be killed without pre-stunning.

UK Law requires animals to be stunned before slaughter because of the horribly cruel suffering of the animals. Most people hate animal cruelty. Only most though because Muslims and Jews are exempt from this. So animal cruelty is apparently ok if a bit of religion is involved. Yes, some are stunned, but some aren’t. One animal killed by these methods is barbaric and should be totally eradicated.

Now, you and your new best pal Baron might not care a jot about a bit of animal suffering as you recent posts have clearly shown. I find it abhorrent. The RSPCA (hardly horrid old right wingers) believe that this kind of slaughter should be banned completely.

You two think it’s fine.

Like you care. Muslims are already mandated to kill the animal as quickly and painlessly as possible, by their own religious tenets. The main discomfort for the animals is in any case taking place before the animal is killed, in transit - and then, ultimately, when they see - and hear - what awaits them. The most humane ways of slaughter entails the knackerman coming to the farm, killing the animal in familiar surroundings. If you care so much about animal welfare, you can easily eliminate all religious practices and it would still leave atrocities aplenty to make you a vegetarian. If you really cared about animal suffering, you'd attack industrial slaughterhouses before you attacked anything else.

[Wickerman]

I remember one poster claiming the choice by KFC was probably a business decision. I doubted that, but here is the lowdown on the Halal process - "typically more expensive" - we'll, that blows that idea out of the water.
(yes, I know it says 'affordable', but read on.)

https://hmacanada.org/halal-meat-overall-decent-affordable-and-well-organized/

[Herlock Sholmes]

Here’s the RSPCA’s campaign to ban the barbaric non-stun slaughter and to end the exemption for religious groups which anyone can sign up to.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/slaughter

[Wickerman]

No one is forcing anyone to eat Halal meat, there is no FORCING involved as some claim, if it is difficult to find non-Halal meat, it is probably your problem to deal with, not a muslims problem.

The Baron

The FORCING comes into play due to lack of choice. Either you eat halal meat or you have no meat. At least that is the claim.
I know Sikhs are not allowed to eat slaughtered meat, as far as I know Halal meat has been slaughtered humanely anyway.

I honestly don't think most people care a hill of beans how the chicken died, the argument concerns preferable treatment to one section of society, and the subsequent lack of choice for the rest.
It's an issue of Principal, more than practical.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Those aren't reasons. It's the exact same meat, halal or not. And no religion has ever claimed that food is unclean if someone from a different religion has said a prayer over it. Your objection is just as ridiculous as having a hangup over what colour disposable gloves they use.



Don't even try it. You're the crazy one here. You are irrational to the point of being childish. You have no reason for being against halal meat, other than "Muslim cooties" like I said.



It is indeed a black and white issue: it's not a problem. Unless you WANT it to be, and clearly you do. Which makes it a YOU problem.

RSPCA:

https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/slaughter/religiousslaughter

In 2022, 24.5 million animals were predicted to be killed without pre-stunning.
Just under 1% of cattle would be killed without pre-stunning.
2.3% of sheep would be killed without pre-stunning.
22.6% of sheep would be killed without pre-stunning.

UK Law requires animals to be stunned before slaughter because of the horribly cruel suffering of the animals. Most people hate animal cruelty. Only most though because Muslims and Jews are exempt from this. So animal cruelty is apparently ok if a bit of religion is involved. Yes, some are stunned, but some aren’t. One animal killed by these methods is barbaric and should be totally eradicated.

Now, you and your new best pal Baron might not care a jot about a bit of animal suffering as you recent posts have clearly shown. I find it abhorrent. The RSPCA (hardly horrid old right wingers) believe that this kind of slaughter should be banned completely.

You two think it’s fine.

[Herlock Sholmes]

And how do you know that the majority in the UK against consuming halal-meat, your feelings are telling you that?!

That the majority of people in the UK are not Muslim is simply a fact. No one chooses to eat Halal food apart from for religious reasons. If those religious reasons don’t exist for the majority then we can say that the majority do not want or ask for halal food.

And if the majority in the UK doesn't want halal meat, why is it then halal meat all over the UK, to a degree that you cannot find non halal meat, and cannot stop complaining about it?!

This is poor even for you. There is halal meat ‘all over the UK’ because there are Muslims ‘all over the Uk.’ Why would anyone bother to sell halal food in an area with no Muslims. Complex stuff obviously.

And I didn’t say that I couldn’t find halal meat (if you could only read, it would help a lot). Non-halal meat is sold in Tesco’s and all other shops (apart from halal shops of course) What I said is that in the butcher section, where meat is cut and prepared, they only serve halal meat.

And if the minority is dictating the majority, would you blame them?!

Yes I would. And strangely this is something that your fellow posters have said doesn’t happen in the UK. Minorities trying to dictate to majorities. If think that’s ok then you appear to disagree not only with me but those on the other side too.

Be active, change the reality that you dislike, democracy is the way, show everyone around you how bad this halal meat is and try to change the rules... if you could


The Baron

That last sentence makes absolutely no sense. It’s just gibberish.

[Karl]

Because the overwhelming majority of people in this country aren’t Muslim and a minority shouldn’t dictate to a majority. Many of them are religious themselves and would object on religious grounds.

Those aren't reasons. It's the exact same meat, halal or not. And no religion has ever claimed that food is unclean if someone from a different religion has said a prayer over it. Your objection is just as ridiculous as having a hangup over what colour disposable gloves they use.

You are just arguing for the sake of it. It should always be a case of opting to go and buy halal from a halal supplier and NOT to go to the biggest supermarket in the country and be left with the choice to opt out.

Don't even try it. You're the crazy one here. You are irrational to the point of being childish. You have no reason for being against halal meat, other than "Muslim cooties" like I said.

How hard can this be? How far will you keep going to defend this absolutely black and white issue? You’re like The Baron; arguing for the sake of it.

It is indeed a black and white issue: it's not a problem. Unless you WANT it to be, and clearly you do. Which makes it a YOU problem.