Just where do we go from here?

[Smoking Joe]

Well that's a phenomenally one sided view. We are also paying the price for imperialism, oil interests, king making, nation building, selective blindness, complete apathy towards the victims of our imperialism, centuries of interference, and about 70 years of CIA bungling in the Middle East.

lash out. What the schmucks excuse?

Of course it's one sided. I know which side Im on.As for Imperialism,yes there are victims,there always are. But the Plus's for our "victims" far outweighed the minuse's. Being brought out of the stone age in many instances,is but one.
The world is a jungle,civilization is but a veneer,scratch the surface just a little and neanderthal man still lurks underneath.Oil interests? Should we not protect our oil interests? Without them we die.
I for one am only concerned with Western interests.Not with the interests of some shitty, fly blown ,medieval society with a religion which demands the shedding of Israeli and Western blood ,and considers the sawing off of european and American heads as some kind of tribute to Allah .
By the schmucks I presume you mean the left wing dickheads who have led us down this road to multicultarilism,which in turn has left us open to all manner of evils. With these pigs running free within our society our future looks nothing short of horrendous.Not for nothing is London known as Londinistan in certain quarters.

You seem to be making the same statement that we hear occasionally from the bleeding hearts brigade.i.e "I dont condone what they did,but I can understand why they did it"....which is really saying "I do condone it,and bloody good luck to them"
My message To these angry and resentful Muslims,and come to that any other immigrant who disagrees with our standards or way of life would be.
This is Britain
This is my Flag
If you dont like it
or if it offends you
Then.... F*** OFF!

[DVV]

Oh, but some time ago Errata declared it wasn't a bad thing that Copts were persecuted by Muslims in Egypt.
Crass, ignorant and pompous (as shown by her loooooooooong posts that are supposed to enlighten our poor selves, thanks to her personal experience - about which nobody really cares).

[Chris Scott]

Errata
I was going to reply in detail to your post defending Muslims in detail but when I read:
"Muslims had the years of Muhammed, and otherwise has been pretty much on the side of the right for a long time. I mean, they were clearly involved in the Crusades, but that was defensive"
I decided that it simply wasn't worth it - we are so far apart on this that neither will ever move the other.
But I feel moved to say that the section in which you said you could "relate" to the motives of the Islamist who killed the solder in Woolwich is without doubt the most crass and revolting post I have ever seen on this site.

[DVV]

Well this is kind of typical. Everytime DVV is asked a direct question, in which he knows he is in the wrong, he goes into a song and dance and dodges every which way in order to avoid the question.

He stated there was no instruction to kill non-believers in Christian religion. He was proved wrong with Christ's own words.

He stated that Christians didn't have to follow the old law. Again, proved wrong by Christ's own words.

What a hell of good time.

You are proved wrong by 2000 years of christianity.

Can you quote the words of Jesus regarding lapidation, please ?

If Christians were to follow the old law to the letter, they would be Jews.

Jews from centuries ago, I mean.

Have you noted that Jews themselves do not stone their wives to death, these days ?

[Errata]

There is no excuse for a man to murder his wife and there is no excuse for the murder of the British soldier. If or when some person or persons are found guilty of the murder, they should be sent to prison for the rest of their life.

And you are absolutely right. But angry I understand. Lashing out I understand. I don't know, it just seems very human. Guy who kills his wife for 50k, does not seem human to me. It's not an excuse, and I'm certainly not suggesting they should not pay for their crime. But it's like woman who shoots a cheating boyfriend. Not okay, but I understand the impulse. I had a boyfriend cheat, and my first impulse would have made him pray for death.

In a way it's like how movies make protagonist killers victims of heinous crimes. Like The Brave One, or Sleepers, or even Othello. You feel for these people even though they are murdering people. Even Dexter has a sad backstory. I mean, I even sympathize with the little gang bangers. These kids have nothing, and statistically will never have anything to give them the slightest amount of pride or fellow feeling outside of the gang. It's no excuse, but I get it. I get less angry about crimes I understand than crimes I don't. I can't help it.

[Robert]

There is no excuse for a man to murder his wife and there is no excuse for the murder of the British soldier. If or when some person or persons are found guilty of the murder, they should be sent to prison for the rest of their life.

[Errata]

Infidels (thats us) are paying the price worldwide for short sightedness,appeasement and licking the boots of Islam.Appeasing murderers and throat slitters doesnt buy us protection.And it is a crime in itself to tolerate evil such as is being committed in many parts of the world by Islamists.
The west is committing suicide by apathy and the political correctness that weighs us down like shackles around our feet and handcuffs on our hands. Our own left wing activists are responsible for inflicting this on us.
If you want to see Islam in its true light,picture them as a nest of vipers.They will slither and hiss at each other,and eat each other alive.But they will settle their own arguments and gather in one hideous mass to acheive their goal of imposing Islam on the rest of the world.
The West cannot defend itself unless our govts and public wake up and understand the nature of the enemy we face.We better wake up pretty soon

Well that's a phenomenally one sided view. We are also paying the price for imperialism, oil interests, king making, nation building, selective blindness, complete apathy towards the victims of our imperialism, centuries of interference, and about 70 years of CIA bungling in the Middle East.

On the other hand, every group of people, especially religions have behaved terribly throughout the centuries. Judaism's rebellious adolescence was pretty much confined to pre Jesus, but Israel clearly needs a stern talking to. Christianity had the Crusades, the Inquisition, The Burning Times, etc. Muslims had the years of Muhammed, and otherwise has been pretty much on the side of the right for a long time. I mean, they were clearly involved in the Crusades, but that was defensive. They warred with other Islamic nations in their own imperial ambitions, so that doesn't really count... Until about WWI when some Muslims began behaving badly for good reasons. Independence, freedom, defense. But in the 60s it changed again after the 6 day war, and we start getting hijackings. So on a completely intellectual level I hate to blame a culture for doing something every other culture has done, they just got it out of the way earlier. It's not okay, but I do recognize it's inevitability.

And you know what? I'm not going to die in a Muslim extremist attack. Likely neither are you. I think we're far more likely to get hit by a bus. And this may be more than slightly mad, but I relate to a Muslim killing a soldier more than I relate to some random schmuck who kills his wife for the insurance money. Maybe relate is the wrong word, but at least the Muslim was angry, and for a pretty good reason, even if the recipient of his rage was an inappropriate choice. The guy who killed his wife is just an ass. So I don't see the Muslim as worse than the schmuck with the wife. I don't exactly see him as better, but if you're going to kill someone, it should at least be for a good reason. It's not noble, but it's relate-able. Angry people lash out. What the schmucks excuse?

[Archaic]

<Quote:> "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."

I think those are some of the wisest and truest words ever spoken.

But for those of of you who don't agree, that's fine with me too.

I think I should clarify, when I said I was sick of all the attacking and counter-attacking going on, I wasn't endorsing any particular poster's personal belief system against anyone else's.

My whole point was that we all have our beliefs- including those who are atheist or agnostic- and no one has any right to rip someone else's personal beliefs apart on this message board!

This mess of a thread is just a big rock-throwing free-for-all where each poster tries to put each other down in public and "one up" them, as if they imagine they are scoring points for it.

It sickens me, and it also saddens me.

I am missing my dear friend Linda so much!

She was wise, and kind, and tolerant, and humble.

Maybe she'd know what to say to make everyone stop and think, apologize to one another and be friends again.

- Bunny

[Errata]

I'd like help you girl but you're too young to vote.

Clearly you have gone mad, my Vichy friend.

[Smoking Joe]

Clearly you do, or you wouldn't have commented on it. And who is Eddie Cochran?

Eddie Cochran said .....There aint no cure for the summertime blues.
He also said Cmon everybody

Religion....bah humbug! It was probabley ok in the beginning ,it's when they started organising it that the problems started.
Funnily enough I believe in A GOD, but Im not arrogant enough to believe I know what he wants,or thinks,and I dont believe anyone should be silly enough to believe they do either. And if there Is a god ,man has no knowledge of him,which makes the present conflict even more ridicolous.

[Ally]

Well this is kind of typical. Everytime DVV is asked a direct question, in which he knows he is in the wrong, he goes into a song and dance and dodges every which way in order to avoid the question.

He stated there was no instruction to kill non-believers in Christian religion. He was proved wrong with Christ's own words.

He stated that Christians didn't have to follow the old law. Again, proved wrong by Christ's own words.

He was asked point blank, whose word matters more, the word of his god, or the word of a mortal man who never even heard the life preachings of Christ and rather than answering it, because of course, he can't, off we go to the show.

Here's the bottom line: Religious people who condemn other people's religions as a whole are by and large the worst kind of hypocrites.

DVV, I'll leave you with these words of Jesus. I realize they aren't Paul, so what does it matter, since Paul apparently matters more to you than the head of your own religion but nevertheless:

"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."

[Smoking Joe]

Infidels (thats us) are paying the price worldwide for short sightedness,appeasement and licking the boots of Islam.Appeasing murderers and throat slitters doesnt buy us protection.And it is a crime in itself to tolerate evil such as is being committed in many parts of the world by Islamists.
The west is committing suicide by apathy and the political correctness that weighs us down like shackles around our feet and handcuffs on our hands. Our own left wing activists are responsible for inflicting this on us.
If you want to see Islam in its true light,picture them as a nest of vipers.They will slither and hiss at each other,and eat each other alive.But they will settle their own arguments and gather in one hideous mass to acheive their goal of imposing Islam on the rest of the world.
The West cannot defend itself unless our govts and public wake up and understand the nature of the enemy we face.We better wake up pretty soon

[DVV]

I'd like help you girl but you're too young to vote.

[Errata]

I thought you knew your Leviticus.

I do... and still no idea what that has to do with an Eddie Cochran.

[Errata]

Who cares ? (Eddie Cochran again)

Clearly you do, or you wouldn't have commented on it. And who is Eddie Cochran?