Judy Garland in the Top Ten

[Limehouse]

[QUOTE=Fleetwood Mac;258211]
But, if it helps, I'm not a conservative.
QUOTE]


Neither was Thatcher. In reality, she was a Liberal. And no, it doesn't help.

[Limehouse]

Perhaps it would be good to lighten up the mood a bit with some more music.

Here's another Elvis Costello song, Shipbuilding, performed by Robert Wyatt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjUkjpJa6bY

A superb song. It's enough to make you cry.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Neither was Thatcher. In reality, she was a Liberal. And no, it doesn't help.

Socially conservative, and making defence and law and order priorities. A big fan of tradition. Pretty conservative in my book.

I wouldn't be fooled by the 'neo-liberal' argument regarding the economy - at heart, she was fiscally conservative.

All of us, or at least those of us who think about these things rather than repeat ideology verbatim, hold some liberal and conservative principles - the trick is in the weighting and the priorities attached to these principles.

[Limehouse]

Socially conservative, and making defence and law and order priorities. A big fan of tradition. Pretty conservative in my book.

I wouldn't be fooled by the 'neo-liberal' argument regarding the economy - at heart, she was fiscally conservative.

All of us, or at least those of us who think about these things rather than repeat ideology verbatim, hold some liberal and conservative principles - the trick is in the weighting and the priorities attached to these principles.

A big fan of tradition? In some ways maybe (anti gay, pro-family and so on) but only in a 'little England' kind of way.

I am not at all fooled by the 'neo-liberal' argument. I can think for myself and I believe her policies and actions were those of a typical Liberal - and that is why many Conservatives disliked her so much.

You seem to think that all people expressing hostility towards her are 'on the left' and therefore entrenched in what you describe as 'ideology' but she was despised by many of her own party and by many people who are not natural labour supporters or particularly supporters of the left.

A good few of those lining up this week to express 'deep sadness' and big-up her contribution to the country were pretty eager to see the back of her when they were plotting to overthrow her!

[Chris]

You seem to think that all people expressing hostility towards her are 'on the left' and therefore entrenched in what you describe as 'ideology' but she was despised by many of her own party and by many people who are not natural labour supporters or particularly supporters of the left.

Well, of course all this business of right and left is relative. No doubt some people really are so far to the right that they would consider someone like Harold Macmillan - who famously referred to the striking miners as "the best men in the world" - as a left-winger:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/historic_moments/newsid_8195000/8195214.stm

[Limehouse]

Well, of course all this business of right and left is relative. No doubt some people really are so far to the right that they would consider someone like Harold Macmillan - who famously referred to the striking miners as "the best men in the world" - as a left-winger:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/...00/8195214.stm

Yes, indeed Chris. And of course, many, many of Thatcher's early votes were won from members of the traditional working classes, whom she captured with promises of social mobility.

It's true also that there is a tradition of 'conservatism' (with a small 'c') within some working class communities, as was evident when some trade union members (of all people!) showed solidarity for Powell's 'rivers of blood' speech, and even a few years earlier, when Transport Trade Unions in Bristol objected to the recruitment of black bus drivers and conductors.

This all goes to show that it is easy to divide those who could naturally be united in strength by inventing a 'threat' (immigrants, gays, Muslims, women and so on). My philosophy is, working people - whatever their colour, origin, religion, gender, sexuality - should unite globally to bring about change. They should unite globally to fight poverty caused by the greed of the capitalist market. They should campaign globally to fight oppression and marginalisation against whomsoever attempts to impose it upon them.

Warm regards

Julie

[Chris]

The Telegraph reports that the family have decided not to intern [sic] Thatcher's ashes until the Autumn, because "They are very conscious that there will be a lot of interest surrounding the internment of the ashes":

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/10004743/Baroness-Thatcher-would-have-been-profoundly-moved-by-her-send-off.html

Considering what happened in Goldthorpe, reinforced concrete might be a good idea.

[brummie]

Sadly in many ways the current Government is a lot worse than Thatcher, she at least was up front about attacking working people, while the current regime uses an evil propaganda campaign to demonise those sections of society it targets in an attempt to legitamise its attacks to the general population. The traditional Tory tactic of divide and rule, set those with a little against those with nothing and watch them argue amongst themselves while at the same time surrupticiously filling the pockets of the well off.

Unfortunately this is all aided and abetted by the British Broadcasting Conservatives and its political editor, who was a former Young Conservative chairman, and its coverage of a funeral service which became almost a Conservative party broadcast. Part of the problem must also be laid at the door of the Labour party who had more than a hand in this mess by trying to become Tory party light instead of offering a more radical alternative, but mainly the architect of greed and division is our multi millionaire chancellor and his 2 faces. He is quite happy to use the deaths of 6 children to justify his welfare attacks holding up a violent child killer as a typical product of benefits even though the judge made no reference and the statistics don't bear this out. At the same time Osbourne is happy to allow tax avoidance and indeed a few years ago on a bbc phone in was happy to encourage milking the state (watch the dancing eyebrows).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qjBec3fpBI

[Limehouse]

Sadly in many ways the current Government is a lot worse than Thatcher, she at least was up front about attacking working people, while the current regime uses an evil propaganda campaign to demonise those sections of society it targets in an attempt to legitamise its attacks to the general population. The traditional Tory tactic of divide and rule, set those with a little against those with nothing and watch them argue amongst themselves while at the same time surrupticiously filling the pockets of the well off.

Unfortunately this is all aided and abetted by the British Broadcasting Conservatives and its political editor, who was a former Young Conservative chairman, and its coverage of a funeral service which became almost a Conservative party broadcast. Part of the problem must also be laid at the door of the Labour party who had more than a hand in this mess by trying to become Tory party light instead of offering a more radical alternative, but mainly the architect of greed and division is our multi millionaire chancellor and his 2 faces. He is quite happy to use the deaths of 6 children to justify his welfare attacks holding up a violent child killer as a typical product of benefits even though the judge made no reference and the statistics don't bear this out. At the same time Osbourne is happy to allow tax avoidance and indeed a few years ago on a bbc phone in was happy to encourage milking the state (watch the dancing eyebrows).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qjBec3fpBI

Bravo brummie. a magnificent post.

Thatcher's death, coming as it did so soon after the Philpot case, has provided a kind of golden opportunity (like the Falkland's War) for the Tories to rise from the ashes. They are, after all, more or less unelected and therefore need events like these to boost the idea of a 'GREAT Britain, spoiled only by benefit cheats. The third event in this 'hat rick' will be the birth of the Royal baby in a few months time.

Thatcher's death has prompted some to re-write history, painting her as some sort of messiah who saved us from the devil (Arthur Scargill?) and restored us to some mythical nation as in Blake's Jerusalem.

[Fleetwood Mac]

My philosophy is, working people - whatever their colour, origin, religion, gender, sexuality - should unite globally to bring about change.

Which, in a nutshell, is the glaring flaw in left-wing politics.....

"I say.......they should".

[Limehouse]

Which, in a nutshell, is the glaring flaw in left-wing politics.....

"I say.......they should".

No, read it again. I didn't write 'I say they should' - I wrote 'my philosophy is... they should'.

There is a difference.

[Fleetwood Mac]

No, read it again. I didn't write 'I say they should' - I wrote 'my philosophy is... they should'.

There is a difference.

What's the difference?

[Semper_Eadem]

Nice to see Judy Garland in the UK Top Ten after all these years:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ers-death.html

It is nice to see Judy Garland appreciated, she did have a lovely voice, my favorite is still Somewhere Over The Rainbow.

[Chris]

For anyone who is interested, here is a longer version of the interview with Elvis Costello about his song written in 1989 anticipating the death of Thatcher:
She seems llike a perfectly reasonable person, you know, in some manifestations she certainly looks fairly benign; she's a middle-aged woman with hair like candy-floss, but she does some of the most monstrous things ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Znn5a-88tY

[Limehouse]

What I find interesting about that interview is that he simply and calmly expresses what he feels, without any venom. However, by contrast, the song itself (written over 20 years ago) is so angry and bitter. That a living (at that time) UK politician could elicit such a strong emotional reaction is remarkable. That she still provoked such emotions in people twenty years later, as a frail and dying woman is remarkable still.