Judy Garland in the Top Ten

[Chris]

People tend to get the respect they earn and respect they give out in equal measure. Thatcher had nothing but contempt for large sections of the populations so its hardly surprising they react to her in the same way.

I think the idea is that those of us who despised Thatcher while she was alive are meant to pretend we respect her now that she's dead. Maybe we're meant to pretend we always respected her; I don't know.

The irony is pretty rich, considering everything we've been told about her being a woman of 'conviction' (), her forthrightness, her belief in speaking her mind and so on, and so forth, ad nauseam.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Oh sorry I forgot she took great delight in asserting there was no such thing as society

A mainstay of the left, yet rarely quoted in the context of a wider article.

Of course the reality is that conservatives cherish community values.

In the context of the full article, it is clear that her message was that the government can't save you. It is your own attitude to self-reliance that will decide whether or not you prosper. Don't look to 'society' to bail you out. That was the message.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I think the idea is that those of us who despised Thatcher while she was alive are meant to pretend we respect her now that she's dead.

Chris,

I don't think anyone cares what you do (in the context of the above).

Politically speaking, the left are not despised, but they are a laughing stock.

I mean, a Prime Minister doesn't agree with you and so the left despise her and celebrate her death.

That's about it, really.

Respect or despise at your will, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty: the joke's on you.

[brummie]

A fine piece of rhetoric, only suffers from one basic flaw, its complete nonsense. Far better to judge people, particularly politicians, on what they say rather than what they do. By creating mass unemployment and then denying people access to the help needed to see them through difficult times denies them the very opportunity you claim is the be all and end all of existence. The fact is the biggest determining factor in success in Britain remains an accident of birth. And heaven forbid that working people should stand up and demand a fairer share of the wealth that THEY create, they just get labelled with the tag of Left wing troublemakers trying to take money from the pockets of the elite before they can take it off shore to avoid having to share it with people who might actually be in need.

[brummie]

Just seen a photo of Osbourne shedding a tear at Thtachers funeral. This is the man prepared to evict the disabled from their homes with his bedroom tax, and driving families into poverty and desperation with savage benefit cuts, what a hypocrite

[Fleetwood Mac]

By creating mass unemployment and then denying people access to the help needed to see them through difficult times denies them the very opportunity you claim is the be all and end all of existence.

She didn't 'create' mass unemployment, man.

Britain was being out-produced by the US, Germany and France.

It was unsustainable. Grants and subsidies could only have served to encourage more of the same.

The rot had set in long before Thatcher's government.

In large part this was due to the unions. Forever striking against change; forever a barrier to innovation. Short-sighted, vested interest politics killed British heavy industry.

The fact is the biggest determining factor in success in Britain remains an accident of birth.

Depends upon what you mean by success.

Could I have been the Prime Minister? Extremely unlikely.

Was I born to wealth? Certainly not. I was born in a mining village.

Did I have the opportunity to go to school and learn? Absolutely.

Did I have the opportunity to compete for jobs post school? Absolutely.

[Chris]

Fleetwood Mac

Thank you for your comments, but I wasn't actually responding to anything you had written, and what you have just posted is far too fatuous to merit any response.

[Limehouse]

A fine piece of rhetoric, only suffers from one basic flaw, its complete nonsense. Far better to judge people, particularly politicians, on what they say rather than what they do. By creating mass unemployment and then denying people access to the help needed to see them through difficult times denies them the very opportunity you claim is the be all and end all of existence. The fact is the biggest determining factor in success in Britain remains an accident of birth. And heaven forbid that working people should stand up and demand a fairer share of the wealth that THEY create, they just get labelled with the tag of Left wing troublemakers trying to take money from the pockets of the elite before they can take it off shore to avoid having to share it with people who might actually be in need.

Fantastic stuff brummie. Keep it Up!

[Fleetwood Mac]

Fleetwood Mac

Thank you for your comments, but I wasn't actually responding to anything you had written, and what you have just posted is far too fatuous to merit any response.

Sounds about right, Chris.

It's a message board. When you post a comment you are by extension inviting people to respond.

Who would have thought it? When challenged on his post the left-wing poster declines to comment, except he does comment but swerves the meat of the matter; and instead reverts to type with the holier-than-thou I couldn't possibly comment on a post that is well beneath my enlightened intellect.

As said, Chris, the joke's on you, mate.

[brummie]

She didn't 'create' mass unemployment, man.

Britain was being out-produced by the US, Germany and France.

It was unsustainable. Grants and subsidies could only have served to encourage more of the same.

so we are being asked to believe that anything you perceive as being a positive should be attributed to the sainted Thatcher while the fact she presided over an era of mass unemployment is merely an unfortunate coincidence and nothing to do with her industrial policies. I'm sure other governments would be disappointed to learn they had no effect on the economy, most would also love this kind of Thatcherite revisionism.
To compare Britains economy with the US and the resources at its disposal is simply ridiculous & France had one of the most subsidised industries in the world.

[Fleetwood Mac]

so we are being asked to believe that anything you perceive as being a positive should be attributed to the sainted Thatcher

Absolutely not. And, I said no such thing, which I'm sure you know.

But, if it helps, I'm not a conservative. There are quite a few reasons why. This should tell you that I don't believe that all things conservative are 'positive'. I have no idea what you mean when you say 'the sainted Thatcher'.

while the fact she presided over an era of mass unemployment is merely an unfortunate coincidence and nothing to do with her industrial policies.

I've given you my view on this and added some details. In short, the rot had set in many years prior to Thatcher's premiership. Here, you are simply repeating your opinion and adding nothing to it.

I'm sure other governments would be disappointed to learn they had no effect on the economy

Which is not what I said at all. Ideas are built upon ideas; situations are built upon situations. Thatcher inherited a situation; likewise, all goverments inherit situations.

To compare Britains economy with the US and the resources at its disposal is simply ridiculous & France had one of the most subsidised industries in the world.

Productivity measures include the base factor 'per head'.

[Jason]

Haven't watched the charade this morning because once I heard that "Ladys Thatchers body will be dragged through the route by horses" didn't mean what I had hoped it would then I decided that I wouldn't give the BBC a viewing figure credit.

[Chris]

Perhaps it would be good to lighten up the mood a bit with some more music.

Here's another Elvis Costello song, Shipbuilding, performed by Robert Wyatt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjUkjpJa6bY

[Chris]

And here's Spitting Image's version of 'Tomorrow Belongs to Me' from Cabaret, which was broadcast on election day 1987:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T3OwB6mARI

[Normy]

Thatcher certainly left her mark.
She wrestled power from the clutches from slimy Scargill, while the unions swallowed everything he said.
For years the NUM had been paying £34,000 annual rent for the flat on Scargill's instructions, without the knowledge of NUM members or many senior officials; Scargill claimed the NUM should continue funding his flat for the rest of his life, and thereafter for any widow who survived him.