Rioting in UK capital

[Limehouse]

Don't forget the appalling Nick Clegg, who nearly provoked a riot himself when he visited Birmingham:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...riot-tour.html

Him too! Appalling! Who can trust him? Are young people going to listen to him after he sold them down the river?

[Errata]

Not to come off as a bleeding heart liberal here (which I am, but not in all circumstances) but it seems pretty obvious from the tenor of most of these posts that England evidently hasn't the slightest idea what to do about gang culture, or hasn't the slightest inclination to do something about it.

Not that we aren't as bad, but we certainly aren't surprised when these things happen.

This is the price we pay for not giving a **** about certain communities. And we really don't. And it's not like we don't know where gangs come from. We've known since the 40s. People need to belong, they need respect, they need recognition. And if they don't get it from society as a whole, they form smaller groups in order to get it. Logic would dictate that we take care of these needs before it happens, but we don't.

I would imagine that a good amount of London could not have cared less about whether these people lived or died. They care now. And anyone who has ever spent any time with a child knows that negative attention is better than no attention at all.

And I'm not proposing that everyone go out and hug a rioter. What's done is done. They are committing crimes, and they need to be dealt with as criminals. But it also helps to apologize when you screw up. And you guys have screwed up. So have they, but they will pay for it when this is over. The goal now is to get it over. And that means sucking it up and saying you're sorry. I mean, what was the plan? Stiff upper lip them into submission?

They have a right to be angry. They don't have the right to riot. And clearly a good deal of them are angry. And probably with good cause. But as long as they are angry, they won't stop. And if the cops kill more of them, they certainly aren't going to get LESS angry. So I imagine unless you guys were planning on killing all of them, that some steps should be taken to address their problems. Before London burns again.

[Sister Hyde]

Some communities have it way worst, whatever they do, and wherever they go, take the Romanis for example, 2 stations away from here we had the largest camp in the whole of western europe, from the start of course everyone was bitching out about it eventhough they were settled outside town, it was "they are thieves", cause yesn they do steal a lot of old crap made of kopper or any metal they can sell, last time I went there with food, I found the camp deserted, with a guy in flashy yellow jacket getting down his caterpillar telling me "they've been deported". Now, if these people had been arabs, or blacks, they would have got money endlessly for flats, living, "integrating" and even studying, but no, they were just european gipsies, seen as "untermensch" kinds, and nobody said a thing and everyone supported it whereas it would have been months of demonstrations from numerous associations if they had come from Africa. all that for saying that some so called "communities" shouldn't complain, because they are definitely not the one suffering from prejudice.

[Chris]

Errata

Thanks for giving us the view from Tennessee.

[tji]

Hi Eratta

I believe quite a lot of us have a great idea what to do with them, unforunately it doesn't seem to be legal

Tj

[Ally]

You know, this whole mindset that the rich are the enemy and no one understands what people in these communities feels like is such a bunch of bull. Say what you want about the US and the UK but no one is FORCED into poverty and helplessness. Both of these countries have opportunities out the freaking wazoo for people who can get over themselves, buckle down and work hard.

For people to treat these rioting pieces of crap as the victims because of the area they are in, is pure crap. If they wanted out of that area, they could leave via the same method the generations before them did: by working their butts off to make something of themselves. But nah, it's much easier to kick back with a beer and bitch about the rich people and their lives rather than trying to make something of your own.

[Limehouse]

Not to come off as a bleeding heart liberal here (which I am, but not in all circumstances) but it seems pretty obvious from the tenor of most of these posts that England evidently hasn't the slightest idea what to do about gang culture, or hasn't the slightest inclination to do something about it.

Not that we aren't as bad, but we certainly aren't surprised when these things happen.

This is the price we pay for not giving a **** about certain communities. And we really don't. And it's not like we don't know where gangs come from. We've known since the 40s. People need to belong, they need respect, they need recognition. And if they don't get it from society as a whole, they form smaller groups in order to get it. Logic would dictate that we take care of these needs before it happens, but we don't.

I would imagine that a good amount of London could not have cared less about whether these people lived or died. They care now. And anyone who has ever spent any time with a child knows that negative attention is better than no attention at all.

And I'm not proposing that everyone go out and hug a rioter. What's done is done. They are committing crimes, and they need to be dealt with as criminals. But it also helps to apologize when you screw up. And you guys have screwed up. So have they, but they will pay for it when this is over. The goal now is to get it over. And that means sucking it up and saying you're sorry. I mean, what was the plan? Stiff upper lip them into submission?

They have a right to be angry. They don't have the right to riot. And clearly a good deal of them are angry. And probably with good cause. But as long as they are angry, they won't stop. And if the cops kill more of them, they certainly aren't going to get LESS angry. So I imagine unless you guys were planning on killing all of them, that some steps should be taken to address their problems. Before London burns again.

Some of us DO care though and we recognise that they are lashing at at the wrong people.

[Limehouse]

You know, this whole mindset that the rich are the enemy and no one understands what people in these communities feels like is such a bunch of bull. Say what you want about the US and the UK but no one is FORCED into poverty and helplessness. Both of these countries have opportunities out the freaking wazoo for people who can get over themselves, buckle down and work hard.

For people to treat these rioting pieces of crap as the victims because of the area they are in, is pure crap. If they wanted out of that area, they could leave via the same method the generations before them did: by working their butts off to make something of themselves. But nah, it's much easier to kick back with a beer and bitch about the rich people and their lives rather than trying to make something of your own.

I am not going to excuse what these people have done because I'm appalled and sickened and many of them may well be people who can't be bothered to raise a finger to help themselves.

However - I do not agree that people are not FORCED into poverty. A great many most certainly are - sometimes by the system and sometimes by the actions of their own families.

[Ally]

Really? So the UK doesn't offer free education to everyone? Basic education isn't mandatory?

There aren't any jobs to be had there? Not even cleaning toilets or washing cars for the rich people?

[brummie]

All this talk of deprived backgrounds and jobless poor is rather exposed when a primary school worker (who probably earns more than I do) pleads guilty to stealing from an electrical store

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvstOtWcBhI

particularly enjoyed the bit at the end where he walksinto a lampost,hope it hurt - a lot!

[lynn cates]

opportunity

Hello Ally.

"Say what you want about the US and the UK but no one is FORCED into poverty and helplessness. Both of these countries have opportunities out the freaking wazoo for people who can get over themselves, buckle down and work hard."

Quite true. I was a dustman before I was a college professor. The opportunities are there IF one decides to take them. Hard work is not just a couple of four-letter words.

Cheers.
LC

[Chris]

Anyhow, according to what the Guardian entitles "UK riots: fifth night live coverage," there haven't been any riots anywhere in the country so far tonight.

The closest thing has been a gathering in Eltham by the so-called English Defence League, which was promptly dispersed by a strong force of police - many of them Welsh, ironically enough.

[The Good Michael]

I was thinking that the lack of strong force used against the rioters, though of course no consolation for any victims, may be something that is beneficial towards a greater unification of disparate groups. Often people want something done now, and I do too, but this was, in a way, a youthful blowing off of steam and my guess is the initial looting was by but a few with a monkey-see monkey-do attitude by some other participants. Let's wait and see what happens. There might be some good that comes out of this whole thing.

Mike

[lynn cates]

good news

Hello Chris.

"Anyhow, according to what the Guardian entitles "UK riots: fifth night live coverage," there haven't been any riots anywhere in the country so far tonight."

Now THAT'S good news indeed!

Cheers.
LC

[Robert]

Lynn, I hope you were a tidy dustman and not one of those who first raise a dust and then complain they cannot see.

Mike, sure, it was probably just high spirits.