SlutWalks

[glyn]

but I'd be putting myself at the risk of being accused of basing my views on facts, which, as we all know, don't exist, it's all just opinion.

Admirable opinions from the unoriginal 2011 version of the 3 stooges.
When their arguments dissolve into nothingness,their only recourse is to indulge in the time honoured tactic of name calling....like children , in their respective corners of the playground.Mutual back slapping and head nodding generally follows.Its the way its done-its the way it always has been done.The location may change-but the actions stay the same.

[Limehouse]

Admirable opinions from the unoriginal 2011 version of the 3 stooges.
When their arguments dissolve into nothingness,their only recourse is to indulge in the time honoured tactic of name calling....like children , in their respective corners of the playground.Mutual back slapping and head nodding generally follows.Its the way its done-its the way it always has been done.The location may change-but the actions stay the same.

Do you want to be reminded of your response to my perfectly reasonable post earleir this afternoon? Something about Father Christmas turning up along with the fairy lights? YOU started the childishness and like most little kids you can dish it out but you can't take it!

[babybird67]

i can't make up my mind...

if Glyn is either 12 years old or something like 84. Either childish first time round or in his dotage. Either seems possible.

[TomTomKent]

Do you want to be reminded of your response to my perfectly reasonable post earleir this afternoon? Something about Father Christmas turning up along with the fairy lights? YOU started the childishness and like most little kids you can dish it out but you can't take it!

See also "or pretend to pretend" "bwa haa haa haa", etc.

[glyn]

See also "or pretend to pretend" "bwa haa haa haa", etc.

And then there 4......cant understand why I left Tom out of the mix.....as usual he cant even get the "bwa haa haa haa " right ,it was "HEE HAW " But I
guess he is a creature of habit.Rather selective in your choice of posts Tom arent you?But then we all know where your nose is most of the time dont we?
Limehouse,
.Yes I can take anything you lot want to throw at me,but unlike you I dont need a band of brouhas behind me to deflect the brickbats.
BB,
Is ageism rearing its ugly head? My My My...

[Ally]

So considering Glyn is the best the "clothes contribute" brigade can come up with, I think it's safe to say that no rational, intelligent person actually believes that nonsense.

At this point we are reduced to arguing with someone who is basically the intellectual equivalent of a gibbering baboon. I don't really feel the need to prove the point to morons.

If anyone comes up with a reasoned debate on it, I'll be back.

[TomTomKent]

And then there 4......cant understand why I left Tom out of the mix.....as usual he cant even get the "bwa haa haa haa " right ,it was "HEE HAW " But I
guess he is a creature of habit.Rather selective in your choice of posts Tom arent you?
Limehouse,
Do you want to be reminded of your original post which invited my response? Naaaa course not.Yes I can take anything you lot want to throw at me,but unlike you I dont need a band of brouhas behind me to deflect the brickbats.
BB,
Is ageism rearing its ugly head? My My My...

So explain what exactly differentiates your childishness? As you seem to object to others speaking in the manner you address them. If you expect to be childish to others don't complain when they return fire. If you wish to complain about the way others acted, expect to appologise for being childish first.

It tends to be rather difficult to both have the cake and to have eaten it.

[glyn]

So considering Glyn is the best the "clothes contribute" brigade can come up with, I think it's safe to say that no rational, intelligent person actually believes that nonsense.

At this point we are reduced to arguing with someone who is basically the intellectual equivalent of a gibbering baboon. I don't really feel the need to prove the point to morons.

If anyone comes up with a reasoned debate on it, I'll be back.

If Ally was the best contributor the "Burn the bra brigade" could muster,then the "anti clothes" squads argument was lost before it began.
Is she capable of arguing any point without spitting out her particular brand of venom? Sounds a rather odious character to me,obviously with a giant chip on her shoulder,so maybe I shouldnt be too unkind to it...I mean her.

[glyn]

So explain what exactly differentiates your childishness? As you seem to object to others speaking in the manner you address them. If you expect to be childish to others don't complain when they return fire. If you wish to complain about the way others acted, expect to appologise for being childish first.

It tends to be rather difficult to both have the cake and to have eaten it.

You seem intent on "cuddling up" to your mentors at every opportunity,I wonder why. I dont object to you 3/4 vomiting your drivel into the forum,and spewing it in my direction. If I object to anything its the constant misquoting/putting words in my mouth to reinforce your/their argument/accusations.
You require an apology? seems you are the one complaining now.Cant you 3/4 put all the abuse in 1 message rather than 4 seperate ones.?It would be much appreciated.
On a serious note ,perhaps you 3 might think of taking your act on the road?scrub up your act a little,there might be money to be made even?If you need an agent let me know.

[TomTomKent]

You seem intent on "cuddling up" to your mentors at every opportunity,I wonder why. I dont object to you 3/4 vomiting your drivel into the forum,and spewing it in my direction. If I object to anything its the constant misquoting/putting words in my mouth to reinforce your/their argument/accusations.
You require an apology? seems you are the one complaining now.Cant you 3/4 put all the abuse in 1 message rather than 4 seperate ones.?It would be much appreciated.
On a serious note ,perhaps you 3 might think of taking your act on the road?scrub up your act a little,there might be money to be made even?If you need an agent let me know.

Nobody asked for an apoogy. I did ask you to explain what difference there was between what you accuse others of, and your own posts. Very little it would seem. Either you have a problem with it, in which case dont do it yourself, or not, in which case stop complaining when others pull the same schtic.

[Errata]

I'm beginning to think there is something very wrong with a couple of you. Which is fine. Statistically likely even. Just disconcerting.

Limehouse: while I appreciate your sentiment, there is something of a pet peeve of mine in being called "brave".

First of all, I'm not brave. If I was brave, I would have persisted in telling people until someone believed me. As it stands, that little gang of football players had 4 victims before me, and 11 after. I was the youngest, the oldest was 19 or 20, and they damaged one girl so badly she had to have an emergency hysterectomy at the age of 17. That's partly on me. I am absolutely not to blame for getting raped. I am to blame for the 11 girls after me, because I was too weak to save them.

But my actual pet peeve is the feeling that rape victims telling their story are brave for saying it out loud. Sure it can be painful. But no one says that about car jacking victims, or mugging victims, or even identity theft victims. The implication of "brave" in the case of rape victims talking for many people (I am not including you in this) is that they think to themselves "wow she is so brave for talking about it. I don't know if I could, I would be so embarrassed". I've had many people even say that too my face.

And I always ask myself, why on earth would I be embarrassed? What do I have to be ashamed of? That at the age of 13 i didn't have the strength to fight off six college football players? I'm 33 and I couldn't do that now. My fiance couldn't do that now. That I didn't see it coming? Actually, I did, I was just trapped. That people had sex with me without my consent? That's not my fault. That I was no longer a virgin at the age of 13? Also not my fault.

I was never embarrassed, and I was barely ashamed even at the time. I just didn't think I would be believed. Mostly because of that jackass security guard who said that clearly it was consensual, because I didn't scream. And I didn't. And if anyone here is a parent to daughters, you make sure they feel comfortable screaming their guts out. I didn't. I swear to god, and to this day I can't figure this one out, I didn't scream because it was rude. Like there was some more polite way of getting across the fact that I was in distress. And I said this once to several other rape victims, and they said the same thing. They didn't scream because they simply didn't know how. Do I just scream, Do I scream words? Do I scream for help? Can I even scream? I've never really done it before. Should I try something else less aggressive first?

Parents of daughters: you raise them to be polite. They have been told by teachers and adults all their lives that screaming is rude, it is unnecessary, that girls should be quiet, should be meek. By the time they hit 10 or 11, they don't know how to do it anymore. My fiance's niece is 10, and I am teaching her how to scream again, and her mother and grandmother HATE it. They think it's unnecessary. God I hope so, But that kid is going to be able to shriek like an air raid siren if she ever has to.

[Ally]

And I always ask myself, why on earth would I be embarrassed?

Exactly. I have never understood why being a rape victim is considered somehow more shameful than being a robbery victim. It is one more way I believe the women are stigmatized rather than the criminals and the mindset needs to end.

Parents of daughters: you raise them to be polite. They have been told by teachers and adults all their lives that screaming is rude, it is unnecessary, that girls should be quiet, should be meek. By the time they hit 10 or 11, they don't know how to do it anymore. My fiance's niece is 10, and I am teaching her how to scream again, and her mother and grandmother HATE it. They think it's unnecessary. God I hope so, But that kid is going to be able to shriek like an air raid siren if she ever has to.

This too. I taught for several years, and I was an advocator for special needs students. There was one girl I just knew was a victim waiting to happen because she'd been raised all her life to be polite. And it's not just to be polite, it's to not be mean, don't be rude, don't hurt someone's feelings. Bollocks to that. I led her through the steps abusive people take to manipulate people. Luckily one day she came to me and said you were right it happened..it was a minor situation that didn't involve any serious harm but she was confronted with her upbringing to "be polite and not hurt anyone's feelings and be ladylike" and how it led her into a potentially dangerous situation.

Women have got to get over this mindset of being nice and not embarrassing yourself or causing a scene. Who cares if you cause a scene? Isn't it better to be embarrassed over something that doesn't happen than be passive while someone assaults you. Scream your heads off girls. Tell someone to Fukk off and not care what anyone thinks.

It can only do you good.

[Robert]

Errata, you were NOT to blame for the ones that followed.

Yes, of course girls should scream in threatening situations. I have heard teenage girls screaming, when they've been in a group and laughing amongst themselves. It felt like a knife through my head. So yes, screaming is effective and I seem to remember someone suggested that the female scream is an evolutionary adaptation - something to do with alerting the men of the tribe that they're needed (wild animal present or whatever). It's not the volume but the pitch, apparently.

What did the college rapists get in the way of a sentence?

[Ally]

Errata, you were NOT to blame for the ones that followed.

I think there's a difference between being to blame and feeling a sense of responsibility for not taking action when someone else gets victimized after the fact. It's something that a lot of victims of sex crimes who don't report it feel later. Saying you are not to blame for the actions of others doesn't alleviate you from the sense of responsibility you feel for your own actions, or inactions.

Please note-- I am not saying she's to blame either. I am just saying, I understand how not reporting something can come back and bite you later and make you feel responsible for not taking a stand.

[Robert]

Ally, I know. The world is full of people who blame themselves for things they know weren't their fault. But still the voice in the night comes "if only." Sometimes it comes in the day too. I suppose what I said to Errata will be water off a duck's back but I thought I'd say it anyway.