SlutWalks

[glyn]

Are they? SO you're on the side of the nature debate then. Nurture doesn't come into it, and if a paedophile is programmed that way he should be allowed to abuse children cos his genes are to blame not him? Maybe you think the little girl was provocative for wearing a pretty dress. After all, a female should dress in a black sack to protect herself shouldn't she.



Yes you are. You quoted them, quite pleased with yourself.



Nice to see you think Police statistics are bs but two evolutionary psychologists are gods.



If you have their book perhaps you can quote the actual research they have done? As yet I can't find any.

Frankly Babybird this getting quite preposterous...I supposedly think 2 psychologists are equivalent to jesus christ...Im quite pleased about it all...I advocate that all women should dress in black sacks...paedophiles should be allowed to abuse children..police statistics by their very nature are complete b.s.....provocative children...whatever next indeed?.Dont you think this is all becoming a bit distorted,and dare I say it..hysterical?
The accusations are coming thick and fast now..almost akin to the Biblical flood ..now I know how the Salem witches must have felt on their way to the courthouse.

[glyn]

Once again, mental midget, try reading. I didn't say if your wife or daughter gets raped it's your fault. I said I feel sorry for them because you are the type of dick who would make them feel like it's THEIR fault.

You are the" type of dick" who would encourage them to believe just that.....
mental midget would definitely qualify as a compliment coming from a half wit like your self.I thank you much

[babybird67]

Frankly Babybird this getting quite preposterous...I supposedly think 2 psychologists are equivalent to jesus christ...Im quite pleased about it all...I advocate that all women should dress in black sacks...paedophiles should be allowed to abuse children..police statistics by their very nature are complete b.s.....provocative children...whatever next indeed?.Dont you think this is all becoming a bit distorted,and dare I say it..hysterical?
The accusations are coming thick and fast now..almost akin to the Biblical flood ..now I know how the Salem witches must have felt on their way to the courthouse.

Glyn...

the book you've quoted is theory/opinion. Myself and Ally and others have pointed out to you statistics (facts) do not support the conclusion you and your source come to from mere opinion alone that women who dress provocatively are more likely to get raped. Rapists themselves do not remember what their victims were wearing, demonstrating quite clearly that how the victims were dressed plays no part in the crime.

You have quoted (and therefore we must assume you agree with) a source which states that it is in a man's genes to be a rapist...you then went on to argue that genes/evolution WAS responsible for everything, thereby one must also assume in the case of a peadophile who states in was his genes/biology giving him uncontrollable urges to violate children, you would have sympathy, because you have espoused this view on this very thread!

Hysterical? No. Angry that such sexist misinformation still proliferates in the world, yes! Passionate in countering it? You bet!

So keep spouting rubbish and I (and thankfully others) will keep deconstructing it and showing you how stupid you look.

[glyn]

WHeere did I state I had sympathy for Paedophiles abusing children?
So if I quote from Mein Kampf Im a Nazi?
Facts? what facts? interpretation of facts you mean.
Evolution and genes are responsible for our very existence,I assume you think they have no bearing on anything? I like this assume/presume/distort game ,its quite fun.

Sexist? that almost rhymes with racist doesnt it? feminist also

Im not sure you could decontrust a house of cards ,with or without your accomplices that you mention.

[babybird67]

attitudes need to change

Women NEVER invite rape, whatever relationship they are in, whatever decisions they have made around drink or dress and whatever level of intimacy they have already engaged in with their attackers. We need to replace the blame and condemnation we currently offer to women who have been raped with support and justice. And we need to assign responsibility where it really belongs – with rapists.

http://www.thisisnotaninvitationtorapeme.co.uk/the-campaign/

Good campaign.

[babybird67]

WHeere did I state I had sympathy for Paedophiles abusing children?

Keep up Glyn, dear boy. You have stated our genes are responsible for our actions. Paedophiles claim they cannot help what they do, their genes compel them to do it, it's natural etc. Ergo...follow the trail of logic you will come to its conclusion.

So if I quote from Mein Kampf Im a Nazi?

Yes, if you use it to bolster an argument you're making. Which you did in this case, with the text involved.

Facts? what facts? interpretation of facts you mean.

No. Bare cold facts, my dear. That just over 4% of rape cases alleged a provocation by the victim (which could be a simple glance). That 60% of rape victims are children (therefore how did they dress provocatively and invite rape?). I know you don't like facts and prefer your 'opinions'. But facts are out there. Continue to ignore them if you wish but they won't go away.

Evolution and genes are responsible for our very existence,

Here you go again.

I assume you think they have no bearing on anything?

No but i don't attribute aberrant criminal behaviour to something 'natural' and 'in our genes,' thereby excusing/condoning it.

Sexist? that almost rhymes with racist doesnt it? feminist also

Little things please little minds.

Im not sure you could decontrust a house of cards ,with or without your accomplices that you mention.

Really? I think we've done a pretty good job so far.

[TomTomKent]

If you have their book perhaps you can quote the actual research they have done? As yet I can't find any.

Well, how about this?

Those advocating genetic dispossition:

http://www.jstor.org/pss/4236198

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/springer/vav/2004/00000019/00000006/art00006

Of course the genetic proposition is not as a deciding factor. That would be a terrible misrepresentation of the theory. It simply states that some people are more likely to act in certain ways. They are still free thinking beings, and they are still responsible for and in control of their action, unless suffering from serious mental illness, which to my knowledge the majority of rapists are not. Sex offenders as a whole however more likely to be mentally ill than the general population.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/17/us-sex-offenders-idUSCOL76032420070517

So that is 24% of sex offenders compared to about 5% of the general population. Still leaving 75% of sex offenders with no clinical reason for their actions.

If there was a "genetic" reason, that they could not control, this would of course manifest itself as a compulsion or other Mental Health issue.

[babybird67]

thanks Tom

the bit of their research I was interested in someone producing was the part that states a woman's dress is a contributory factor in their rape, as this conflicts with all the other studies/sources i have come across so far.

Glyn and Bob might like to go and embrace sharia law though as I came across this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/25/malaysia.islam

[Errata]

I have done research on what causes rape for a very specific reason. I was the 13 year old girl in my previous post to Bob Hinton (no worries, I'm fine now). And I was blamed for what happened to me. Obviously by my rapists, but also by the security guard I tried to report it to. After that I didn't tell a soul for several years. Three days after it happened, I shaved my head, threw out most of my clothing and wore nothing but baggy jeans, baggy t-shirts, flannel shirts, a biker jacket and steel toed combat boots for the next 6 years. Even in the scorching heat of the summer of the American south. I though that looking like a boy would protect me. And the straight razor tucked in my jacket.

When I was 17, I was walking to my car after work and a couple of guys noticed that I was a girl. They assumed I was a lesbian and started making remarks about showing me what a real man could do for me. I collapsed. I just curled into a ball and started keening I guess you would say. They freaked out and ran off, and a usual customer ran into my work to tell them something was wrong. My boss came out to help me, and she was the first person I told.

When I was 19 I was almost raped by my idiot best friend (total miscommunication. actually kind of a funny story now) But if my sister's boyfriend hadn't walked past the door when he did and literally put my friend through a wall, it would have happened. The next day I bought normal clothing. It wasn't working.

I started reading everything I could find on what causes rape. Since I had access to one of the great medical research libraries in the south, it was a lot. Rape is fantasy fulfillment. Sometimes rape is a tactic in Psychological warfare. I knew already that not being pretty didn't protect you. I knew that shapeless clothing didn't protect you. I read dozens, maybe hundreds of papers. They bore that out. Rapists choose victims based on what woman most closely matches the fantasy in their head. If it's a blond jogger, they will take a blond jogger. If it is a wealthy housewife asleep in her bed, they will take a wealthy housewife in her own home. If its a friends of theirs...

Many rapists are opportunists. They don't have a well formed picture in their head. They can see themselves in their fantasy, the dialogue, the hunt, but they don't see a victim. Who it is doesn't matter. What matters is that they get to play the part they want. They will take anyone who they think will let them play their game. Mostly women who are drunk or otherwise incapacitated. Doesn't matter what they look like. Their sexual excitement comes from getting to play their part.

The only time clothing was ever mentioned was if there was a fetish involved (nurses for example) or as a rationalization tacked on the end. A rapist would take hours describing how they wanted to hunt, and what turned them on and what they would do and why, and how they learned to perfect the experience based on previous victims and at the very end say "anyway, if she didn't want it she wouldn't have worn a short skirt". After describing previous victims who weren't wearing anything provocative, and subsequent victims who weren't wearing anything provocative. So clearly it was not part of his victim selection, he simply said that to gain sympathy. "You understand it was partly her fault right?" "You don't blame me for that one right?"

Why do you think that a rapist thinks he can gain sympathy by blaming the victim for her clothing choice?

What part of our still very puritanical society does a rapist think he can appeal to with such a statement?

[babybird67]

Errata

you are very brave. I am glad you are such a strong and inspirational woman.

I've also been raped but it was 'my fault' because I had consented to sex before. So it was my fault that he forced himself on me and actually damaged me inside physically. I obviously asked for it.

Also, as an adolescent, I came close to being raped by an Uncle. Same Uncle who had made my own mum's childhood hell by serially raping and abusing her. It was only because I screamed out and woke up my grandparents that I managed to avoid it. I can guarantee everyone neither my mum or myself were in any way shape or form provocatively dressed.

I am sick of the misinformation and the blame culture attached to women who are victims of rape.

It needs to stop.

Now.

[glyn]

Keep up Glyn, dear boy. You have stated our genes are responsible for our actions. Paedophiles claim they cannot help what they do, their genes compel them to do it, it's natural etc. Ergo...follow the trail of logic you will come to its conclusion.



Yes, if you use it to bolster an argument you're making. Which you did in this case, with the text involved.



No. Bare cold facts, my dear. That just over 4% of rape cases alleged a provocation by the victim (which could be a simple glance). That 60% of rape victims are children (therefore how did they dress provocatively and invite rape?). I know you don't like facts and prefer your 'opinions'. But facts are out there. Continue to ignore them if you wish but they won't go away.



Here you go again.



No but i don't attribute aberrant criminal behaviour to something 'natural' and 'in our genes,' thereby excusing/condoning it.




Little things please little minds.



Really? I think we've done a pretty good job so far.

Oh dear,
1.We are all driven, Paedophiles cannot alter the facrt they are paedophiles.They have to accept the responsibilty for their actions nonetheless.Its not a choice to become/not become a paedophile. Im stating the obvious,but as for as youre concerned,it seems one has to do just that....all the time.Perhaps you might take your own advice and follow that logic?
2.It means nothing of the sort ,necessarilly.As I stated earlier the quotes quoted were primarily to show that your voice/opinion wasnt the only voice/opinion on the planet. 3.As far as rape was concerned,I believed the slutty proffessional dressers indicated the subject was adult rape,not child rape or paedophilia,an issue you keep returning to time and time again, why?that part is getting a little creepy to be honest. Your facts dont prove anything one way or the other,why pretend they do.. 4.attributing the tendency towards abberrant behaviour to genes etc doesnt excuse the crime,it merely shows that forces other than conscious behaviour are at work.
5. "little things please little minds" Yes Im quite certain that you are eminently qualified to talk of such things.
6."Really? I think weve done a good job so far".....Well you would say (and think) that wouldnt you?

O.k let me restate my original statement.......Women dressing sluttily ,by their dress and presumabley slutty actions increase their risk of suffering some kind of sexual assault........now by all means argue that, not argue things I havent said,or drift off into sub topics like paedophilia(of which I made no mention) whether or not the authors of said references were descended directly from heaven,or a whole host of other nonsensical topics.

[TomTomKent]

you are very brave. I am glad you are such a strong and inspirational woman.

I've also been raped but it was 'my fault' because I had consented to sex before. So it was my fault that he forced himself on me and actually damaged me inside physically. I obviously asked for it.

Also, as an adolescent, I came close to being raped by an Uncle. Same Uncle who had made my own mum's childhood hell by serially raping and abusing her. It was only because I screamed out and woke up my grandparents that I managed to avoid it. I can guarantee everyone neither my mum or myself were in any way shape or form provocatively dressed.

I am sick of the misinformation and the blame culture attached to women who are victims of rape.

It needs to stop.

Now.

This unfortunately is not an uncommon story. There is an assumption that if you consent to an act the night before consent is assumed for as long as you are in bed, together, dating, etc. It is heartbreaking to see women say "And then I woke up and he was already doing THIS..." only to see the reply being "Well he was in bed with you, so you must have consented." When she was asleep? How? What? Eh?

Or worse till when it was several mornings after and being a couple is assumed to mean consent inspite of comments to the contrary.

Anyhoo, some more stats:

http://www.uww.edu/sasa/statistics.htm

[Bob Hinton]

Oh really...

You have no idea what an honour it is to be mocked for such petty reasonsby somebody stupid enough to call that statement tripe.

So tell us Bob, exactly what clothes must your victim wear for it to be herfault you raped her?

That last statement implies I raped someone. Remove it and apologise immediately or I will hit you with a lawsuit so fast your head will spin.

[babybird67]

This unfortunately is not an uncommon story. There is an assumption that if you consent to an act the night before consent is assumed for as long as you are in bed, together, dating, etc. It is heartbreaking to see women say "And then I woke up and he was already doing THIS..." only to see the reply being "Well he was in bed with you, so you must have consented." When she was asleep? How? What? Eh?

Or worse till when it was several mornings after and being a couple is assumed to mean consent inspite of comments to the contrary.

Anyhoo, some more stats:
http://www.uww.edu/sasa/statistics.htm

He was my 'boyfriend'. I was 15. I had been a virgin. I consented, and don't laugh, because it was the start of the Falklands war and in my naive mind, war would mean nuclear oblivion and I didn't want to die never having known what it was like to have sex. In my own naive mind I loved him. So we had sex. But once wasnt enough for him. He wanted more. But he was damaging me inside, and the pain was unbearable, so I asked him to stop. He continued. I asked him again to stop. I told him he was hurting me inside and please stop. I kept thinking, he can't hear me, otherwise he would have stopped by now, he surely wouldn't want me in distress. So a final time, loud enough for me to be sure he had heard, I begged again, please stop. He shouted at me NO! And continued.

Needless to say I never met him again after that. Luckily it didn't colour my vision of all men. He was just one scumbag and I made a very bad choice. Luckily the physical and emotional damage has healed.

It is scary that the figures i found for 2006 show 80 000 reported rapes, and about 800 convictions.

The messages we give out about rape and what's acceptable are partly to blame for that I think.

[glyn]

That last statement implies I raped someone. Remove it and apologise immediately or I will hit you with a lawsuit so fast your head will spin.

I must admit I missed that abominable post,Im afraid this thread is out of bounds for me from now on. That is sinking to the depths Tom .Its nothing less than disgusting.