No limits to immigration

[Bob Hinton]

161,000 asylum seekers allowed to stay in the UK in amnesty after blunders by Border Agency

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1O6MEcbdX

This sort of thing does not endear immigrants to the British people. The overwhelming majority of these people are criminals who the government is not ejecting.

The police keep haranguing us to lock all our doors and windows to deter criminals, but the government leaves the doors and windows to the country wide open.

[Bob Hinton]

Ah, benefits claims are another area where stereotyping may prejudice our perception of the facts. It is also an area where the stereotype is self conflicting; are the economic migrants here to steal jobs and work cheaply, or are they lazy benefits scroungers?
.

Tomtom is so right. I mean these people:Family who owned TEN houses worth £1m tricked taxpayers out of £100 a week for SEVEN YEARS

A family conned taxpayers out of almost £100,000 - even though they had ten homes worth £1million.
Mother-of-one Anuysa Parmar received £100 a week for seven years despite her family's wealth.
The 51-year-old from Leeds admitted falsely claiming £36,938 and avoided jail after Leeds Crown Court heard she was the only family member able to be sentenced.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1O6RcRKoR

Were just trying to provide a few crusts of bread.

[Bob Hinton]

Really?

There are likely some of each, and there is no doubt some areas of the benefit system need tightening up, but we can not pretend that foreigners have the monopolly on playing the system. As with other crimes, our native population have the upper hand in taking it for granted.
.

You know very well that no-one is claiming that. What I - and thousands of others are asking - is why when we have our own home grown criminals do we insist on importing more?

[Bob Hinton]

And again

Lawns with Greek statues, a computer suite, hairdressing lessons... inside our newest holding centre for migrants

Its manicured lawns and gravel paths decorated with stone statues would look at home in even the grandest of rural estates.
But Morton Hall is not a plush country pad – it is the Government’s latest centre for foreign detainees awaiting deportation.
The immigration removal centre, in Swinderby, Lincolnshire, will eventually house around 400 men, including former prisoners, illegal immigrants and failed asylum seekers.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1O6TClLEu


When our elderly are being brutally treated in appalling conditions in “retirement homes” this is what the Government is spending our money on!

[Sister Hyde]

yeah yeah yeah going into the news in brief and selecting THE story needed to make a point whereas you can find just the same the other way around...it's easy, and i think that's pretty much why this whole discussion is sterile, both sides can do it.

[Limehouse]

Perhaps it would be helpful to go back to the original quote that Phil saw posted on the window of the shop called Lush:

"People should be free to live and work wherever they wish and enjoy all of the same rights as all other residents"

Now - that does not seem to me to be implying unlimited immigration or the importaton of immigrant criminals.

What it actually advocates is the freedom of people to live and work where they wish and in so doing enjoy the same rights as other people living and working in that vacinity.

Of course - if people abuse that system - whoever and wherever they are - they should be investigated and punished according to the law and it is obvious from the links above that they are being.

Of course - the Daily Mail would never print exampes of immigrants making positive contributions to this country - such as those I quoted a few posts back.

[EddieX]

Perhaps it would be helpful to go back to the original quote that Phil saw posted on the window of the shop called Lush:

"People should be free to live and work wherever they wish and enjoy all of the same rights as all other residents"

Now - that does not seem to me to be implying unlimited immigration or the importaton of immigrant criminals.

It doesn't seem to be saying that there should be a limitation on immigration. I read the word 'People' as intended to mean 'all people' not 'some people'. This is a sentiment with which I disagree profoundly.

No one would doubt that 'some people' should be free to live and work wherever they wish, only the seriously deluded would advocate that all people should have that freedom. What if one billion Chinese decided that they would forgo the delights of Cathay and in order to settle and work in the lovely Shropshire town of Much Wenlock. Are we saying that all of them would have this right, or that only SOME of them would be so entitled?

QED.

[Limehouse]

It doesn't seem to be saying that there should be a limitation on immigration. I read the word 'People' as intended to mean 'all people' not 'some people'. This is a sentiment with which I disagree profoundly.

No one would doubt that 'some people' should be free to live and work wherever they wish, only the seriously deluded would advocate that all people should have that freedom. What if one billion Chinese decided that they would forgo the delights of Cathay and in order to settle and work in the lovely Shropshire town of Much Wenlock. Are we saying that all of them would have this right, or that only SOME of them would be so entitled?

QED.

Well Eddie - no where in my post do I state 'all people'. Since the original quote specifically refers to 'work' one would expect that they obtain 'work' or make a reasonablew assumption that work will be available - before they depart from their countries of origin.

Additionally - nowhere in the original quopte does it say 'people should be free to work IN THE UK'. Obviously - many immigrants go to other parts of the world.

[Bob Hinton]

Limehouse Blues

What it actually advocates is the freedom of people to live and work where they wish and in so doing enjoy the same rights as other people living and working in that vacinity.

.

So what you are saying is that someone who has been born and raised in this country, worked hard all their lives, contributed through taxes to the general welfare of the country should have no more rights and privileges than someone who decides one day to hop on a boat and land on our beaches?

So you presumably would be quite happy to open your doors and welcome anyone into your home to take and use for themselves that which you have worked for?

If you are not happy to do that on a personal level what gives you the right to insist that it be done on a national level?

Don’t worry I don’t expect an answer from the wafflemeister!

[Bob Hinton]

Yet more wonderful immigrants!

Blowing the roof off a benefits scam: Nigerian fraudsters exposed by gas explosion




A gas explosion which blew the roof off a house inadvertently exposed a scam by a Nigerian couple who fraudulently claimed £80,000 in benefits and funnelled the money back home to set up a string of businesses.

Mini cab driver Nura Kamara, 34, and care worker Hadiza Mohammed, 31, had their cover quite literally blown when they applied for temporary accommodation following the blast in September last year.

The explosion, started by another tenant who lived in the converted three-storey Victorian property in South Norwood, London, left five families homeless after the flats were declared unsafe.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1OCDPg5OT

[Bob Hinton]

Some more cheeky chappies!

Amnesty shambles lets in 250,000 failed asylum seekers over two decades



In 20 years, a city of illegal immigrants the size of Brighton is allowed to stay in Britain

A staggering quarter of a million failed asylum seekers have been granted an ‘amnesty’ in Britain over the past two decades, it emerged last night.

Chaos in the immigration system has forced ministers to allow some 256,000 failed asylum seekers to stay since the early 1990s, according to figures compiled by the MigrationWatch think-tank.

The figure is the equivalent of the population of Brighton being accommodated in Britain.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1OCEOre6E

[Limehouse]

So what you are saying is that someone who has been born and raised in this country, worked hard all their lives, contributed through taxes to the general welfare of the country should have no more rights and privileges than someone who decides one day to hop on a boat and land on our beaches?

So you presumably would be quite happy to open your doors and welcome anyone into your home to take and use for themselves that which you have worked for?

If you are not happy to do that on a personal level what gives you the right to insist that it be done on a national level?

Don’t worry I don’t expect an answer from the wafflemeister!

If that's what you think my posts are implying then I can do nothing to address your obvious deficiencies.

There - you have your answer.

[TomTomKent]

If that's what you think my posts are implying then I can do nothing to address your obvious deficiencies.

There - you have your answer.

What Bob used there was the "straw man" approach. Instead of arguing against the point you made he has instead chosen to argue against an overblown bunch of baloney you did not say, in the hope we might be foolled into thinking you said it. Either that or he thinks the word "work" means coming into your house and taking something for nothing,etc, which is just plain ignorant.

The remainder of his posts rely on a logical fallacy called the excluded middle. Either foreign people are criminal, or they are nice and he has evidence they are criminal. This ignores any middle ground, like perhaps not all immigrants are criminals, not all criminals are immigrants, or anykind of sensible comparrison. Apparently the anctions of a negligiable minority is enough to make us rethink all our policies. And darn if there arent a quater of a million people coming here over DECADES with only small concerns missing; how many remained in the country, how manyhave not worked, if less than a million people has had a quantifiable impact on resources above that of the native "workshy". No middle ground for the facts to fall into, it is apparently all or nothing.

May i suggest going to skeptoid.com and reading the transcripts for the episodes on logical fallacies?

[Bob Hinton]

Oh really...

If that's what you think my posts are implying then I can do nothing to address your obvious deficiencies.

There - you have your answer.

I'm sorry what other interpretation can I put on the following statement:

What it actually advocates is the freedom of people to live and work where they wish and in so doing enjoy the same rights as other people living and working in that vacinity.


You want people to live and work where they wish and enjoy the same rights as other people in the vicinity.

The only meaning can be that if somebody comes into this country from abroad you want them to have the same rights as people who have been here all their lives and have contributed to the pot for all that time.

[Limehouse]

What Bob used there was the "straw man" approach. Instead of arguing against the point you made he has instead chosen to argue against an overblown bunch of baloney you did not say, in the hope we might be foolled into thinking you said it. Either that or he thinks the word "work" means coming into your house and taking something for nothing,etc, which is just plain ignorant.

The remainder of his posts rely on a logical fallacy called the excluded middle. Either foreign people are criminal, or they are nice and he has evidence they are criminal. This ignores any middle ground, like perhaps not all immigrants are criminals, not all criminals are immigrants, or anykind of sensible comparrison. Apparently the anctions of a negligiable minority is enough to make us rethink all our policies. And darn if there arent a quater of a million people coming here over DECADES with only small concerns missing; how many remained in the country, how manyhave not worked, if less than a million people has had a quantifiable impact on resources above that of the native "workshy". No middle ground for the facts to fall into, it is apparently all or nothing.

May i suggest going to skeptoid.com and reading the transcripts for the episodes on logical fallacies?

An absolutely delicious post Tom.