On The Trail Of The Forgers

[plang]

Victoria,Victoria, See the smallprint under Pubtalk,'grab a pint and gab about anything'.
Graham, that would be a quarter of beef.

[Graham]

Graham, did you read Cornwell's non-fiction Ripper book?
She clearly explains why the diary is a fake.
Can't give you page numbers or anything because I sold it for a quarter.

Plang,

Not really sure why La Cornwell should be seen as an authority on the Diary, but never mind.

Nope, never read her book due to the impossibility of Sickert being JtR. And if her Sickert book is anything like her fictional works, then I never do want to read it. You did well to make a quarter when you sold your copy.

Graham

[Victoria]

That is a strange post Plang,
with such a comment why would anyone want to send you
a free copy of anything, and you did not answer the question
either .. 'Why you think he is full of it'?

Steve is not here to argue anything, if you have followed
the thread you would know that he came here to tell what he knows
of the forgery, and hopefully get some help to fill in the missing
pieces of the puzzle.
Casebook is for people interested in ripperology, so this move
seems perfectly logical to me.

And he is 'truly serious' .. hence the book.

Victoria

[plang]

Graham, did you read Cornwell's non-fiction Ripper book?
She clearly explains why the diary is a fake.
Can't give you page numbers or anything because I sold it for a quarter.

[plang]

Steve, if you are truly serious, why do you argue your convictions on a pub talk forum? Publish the damn book, and send me a free copy.

[Graham]

Now I understand. You are so full of it Steve.
Cornwell knows the diary is a fake.

Plang,

Can you please elucidate regarding your statement that 'Cornwell knows the diary is a fake'?

Thanks,

Graham

[Steve Powell]

plang twangs a wrong chord.

You understand now do you plang?
You've made your mind up from studying all of the angles
and you think I'm 'full of it'.
I actually am full of it dude.
Filled by some of the crap detective's here who think they
alone can judge me as 'full of it'.
Since you've made the statement now,
let's hear from you,
why am I so full of it to you?
And make it good or I'll rip the D string off your axe.

[plang]

Now I understand. You are so full of it Steve.
Cornwell knows the diary is a fake.

[Steve Powell]

Callyphygian said:
"What form was the diary in when you held it in your hands.?
Was it the blue Victorian guard book? Were the pages full of writing?"

The last time I saw Steven Park was around 1978-79
when he proudly handed me the diary to look at.
Now, it has been said by some that the diary is black
and by others to be blue,
I remembered it to be a very dark blue
and it would have been cleaned extensively since then,
as it would have had the prints of all those involved on it.
In a photo that I recently saw of it, it now looks more blue than black.
The faded gold bands on the front gave it an air of class,
but on closer inspection, it reminded me of a blank ledger,
that was simply being used as a scrapbook.
There were four triangular photo holders on the inside
cover, that were stuck onto untidy blobs of white glue.
There was no picture in the holders, but Steven told me
that there was a picture of a soldier originally there.
He said he still had it and had thought about putting
another photo there, but needed a real photo
to go there and he didn't have one.
He said he would leave the corner pieces there 'as another mystery'.
When I told him that actual old corner photo holders
were not the same as the ones in his diary,
he simply peeled them off with a shrug, and let the glue globs stay.
I don't know if afterwards he cleaned those glue marks away or not,
but to me the glue looked like a opaque synthetic compound.
I mentally laughed to myself at the time that he thought that
anyone would ever fall for his hoax.
I didn't say that to him as I didn't want to hurt his feelings
as he thought it was a work of art.
Without going into the details again, as I have done previously here,
it is the very diary that is in the hands of Robert Smith today.
The cut pages, the words, the poems, entirely.

Cal: "Was the decision that Robbie would be the watchman made in OZ, or in the U.K?"

Interesting question Cal.
Was Robbie Johnson initially a friend of Anne Grahams or Mike Barrett?
Did Steven Park meet him through them?
I believe that the watch was promised to an enthusiastic Robbie
before Feldman even came on the scene.
Feldman later agreed, after meeting him, that Robbie be the watchman.
We have been told that there is no link between the Johnson's
and the Barretts, but by whom? Feldman.

Cal: "Was Park partial to the odd blast of Ganja, by the way?"

Steven Park was into alcohol and his words in the diary reflect this at times.
I do know that while Steven was writing the diary around the early seventies,
an artist friend gave him a large block of black hashish,
which he became quite fond of.
He said that it helped him write parts of the diary.
I told him that the 'assassins' used hashish before their murderous missions.
He looked at me pretty stoned and just said,
"I don't know how they managed to get off the couch."
His abode was alcohol though and here he found his comfort level.
It would also become his master over time.

Cal: "..as a singer, what numbers did Park used to sing - and do fragments of any of them exist in the text of the diary?"

That's funny Cal, but who knows how he weaved the bits and pieces
of the diary together from his imagination: Songs, movies, books, etc.
After the initial written pages of Steven's were cut out,
to make way for Feldman's updated version to be entered into it,
some of those 'funny bits' were probably ousted with 'more appropriate'
text put in their place.
I do remember Steven laughingly telling me that there were those in the diary.
As a singer he wore his old, but well kept, grey mohair suit on stage
and would sing songs like 'Delilah' and 'The Green Green Grass of Home'
and other such creepy songs that gave me the shudders.
I could never quite get him into something more upbeat and although
he tried, he had this vision of himself as a Bobby Darin or Elvis Presley
or someone else besides himself.
I offered him a chance to record with me the last time we met,
but he was so engulfed and silenced by the diary by now,
that he was paranoid about being 'noticed'.
That was the paltry excuse he gave me anyway.
I figured he just didn't want to run the risk of one more failure.
His future was with the diary, come what may.

Regards Cal,
Steve Powell
sun25may2008

[Callyphygian]

Hi
Steve,

"I saw both of these articles with Steven Park.
I held them in my hands."

What form was the diary in when you held it in your hands.?
Was it the blue Victorian guard book? Were the pages full of writing?

"Park told me about 'Robbie' being the 'watchman'."
Was the decision that Robbie would be the watchman made in OZ, or in the U.K?

Was Park partial to the odd blast of Ganja, by the way?

Finally, as a singer, what numbers did Park used to sing - and do fragments of any of them exist in the text of the diary?


Love,
Callyphygian

[Chris George]

Steve, still waiting for your book.
But you know, It is really astonishing how you have brought out the Maybrick believers to the forefront. It seems to me that none of them have the balls to openly admit that they think Maybrick was the Ripper.
Asked before, why is Maybrick consistently No.1 on voting.
Yet still cannot find anyone willing to explain why they are convinced.
Cowards!!!F*****G Cowards!!! Show yourselves!!!
I want to see a 'trusted' poster admit that they think Maybrick was the Ripper.

I don't think Maybrick was the Ripper but I do accept that the Diary and the narrative it tells makes for a "good story" that is going to convince a number of people that he did the murders.

Chris

[plang]

Steve, still waiting for your book.
But you know, It is really astonishing how you have brought out the Maybrick believers to the forefront. It seems to me that none of them have the balls to openly admit that they think Maybrick was the Ripper.
Asked before, why is Maybrick consistently No.1 on voting.
Yet still cannot find anyone willing to explain why they are convinced.
Cowards!!!F*****G Cowards!!! Show yourselves!!!
I want to see a 'trusted' poster admit that they think Maybrick was the Ripper.

[Steve Powell]

The Watchman.

Howdy Graham,
You are totally correct that the diary and watch are linked.
I saw both of these articles with Steven Park.
I held them in my hands.
I was present when Park scratched the initials into the watch.
Park told me about 'Robbie' being the 'watchman'.
It was the watch that Feldman initially told Park that he
was more interested in than the diary.
Park thought that 'funny' as the watch to him was just
a side-line thought to the whole hoax.
I beleive that a second, similar watch was used for
the purpose of deception to obtain a receipt.
Robbie was 'the inside man' with the watch.
Did Albert know? I would think he would have to
being his brother.
By the way, was Albert, Robbie's real brother?

Steve Powell
sat24may2008

[Victoria]

Graham,

"Steve Powell seems to dismiss the Watch"

Not true, he and I both know that Steven Park bought a watch
from my brother.
Steven Park had the intent of using the watch in his hoax.
Whether that plan didn't exactly, go to plan, and someone else
took up the idea, I have no idea.

Again not all books focus on the same, and every aspect of a story.
For that matter is there one book written on the diary that has all
the answers, every aspect correct?
To me that is not important, it is the telling of what one knows happened,
and is true .. that in itself may be the very step needed for the missing links
to be revealed.

Victoria

[Graham]

Steve Powell seems to dismiss the Watch. Unfortuntely, it's not so simple as that - the Watch cannot just be dismissed. The Diary and the Watch are linked; they are not seperate entities in this matter. In many respects, the provenance of the Watch is more complicated than that of the Diary. When it's all boiled down to basics, the Diary could have been conceived, executed and publicised by just one person; not so the Watch.

Graham