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  • #76
    Originally posted by Omlor View Post

    Paul Butler did not "suggest that the late Melvin Harris used one of his implausible D'Onston theory books to give the diary a good and timely bashing."

    Paul Butler wrote that Melvin Harris deliberately "fitted up" an "implausible" suspect just to "deflect the limelight away from the diary." That's nonsense Caroline. And you know that's nonsense. The fact you can't simply say that, the fact you feel you have to argue otherwise, is telling, to say the least.
    Hi John,

    That is nonsense, I agree, because if you can say that Paul Butler accused Harris of ‘deliberately’ fitting up D’Onston ‘just’ to deflect the limelight away from the diary, I can similarly say that you have ‘deliberately’ misled the readers here by failing to quote Paul directly or in context, and by putting your own spin on what he actually wrote, ‘just’ to give it the worst possible interpretation. I can say this because you claim to be a bit of an expert when it comes to interpreting the written word, and you even claim to know about all the inherent ambiguities of the language. So there can be no possible excuse in your case for misinterpreting Paul when you could have quoted him directly if his own words were enough to condemn him. He didn't write an essay - it was a brief observation.

    This is my own interpretation of what Paul was saying (without looking it up or quoting directly), and everyone is welcome to judge mine alongside your own.

    Paul was comparing the ‘fitting up’ of Maybrick, the sex and drug-addicted merchant, as Jack (presumably by Shirley and Feldy), with Macnaghten’s ‘fitting up’ of Druitt the suicidal barrister as Jack, and Harris’s ‘fitting up’ of D’Onston the hospital in-patient as Jack.

    In this context (especially if Paul used quote marks for the ‘fitting up’ - I’ll check after posting this), it becomes quite ludicrous to suggest that Paul meant that Macnaghten or Harris had literally fitted up their suspects, ie by deliberately fabricating evidence to incriminate them. Neither theorist produced any incriminating evidence, genuine or otherwise! It was all speculation. I naturally took it to be the same figurative ‘fitting up’ done by every published ripper theorist from day one with a favourite suspect to push. Nobody would have said a word if Paul had used Cornwell to illustrate his point instead, and said that she had ‘fitted up’ Sickert with a speculative fistula and a postbag full of speculative ripper letters. It would have been taken in the spirit it was intended.

    There is little doubt that Harris ‘fitted up’ D’Onston in the figurative sense, with a speculative ability to plan and execute the murders from his sick bed in hospital, requiring him to have faked his illness and fooled the hospital staff over a considerable period of time. That does not mean Harris didn’t personally believe the man to be guilty. One man’s definition of plausible need not be everyone else’s. It just puts him on a par with other speculators who brought out books claiming to have closed the case. His book The True Face of Jack the Ripper was published on the basis that he had solved the case. The title is self-evident, before you even get inside and find the bit where D’Onston ‘went on to become the most notorious of all the Rippers - the one known as Jack…’ (Remember the hard time you always gave Feldy for using ellipses?) I don’t doubt he would have tried to ascertain before its publication that his patient could have left his hospital bed to commit the murders. But if he didn’t succeed or didn’t think it was crucial for his theory it wouldn't have made him any better or worse than the next published ripper theorist in my view. But his case solution ticket certainly gave him a timely publishing opportunity to include his Maybrick diary beliefs in the same work.

    I don't think Paul was trying to imply that Macnaghten and Harris realised their suspects could be non-starters, or that they attempted to con anyone with their not-so-definitive ripper solutions, either for the sole purpose of getting Cutbush off the hook or ‘just’ to put the diary in the shade.

    I'm still curious as to why you feel so strongly about what Paul wrote (or at least the way you chose to interpret it), considering you have never given the least indication that you support Harris's case against D'Onston as a sound one, which justified his book claiming that this man murdered several women.

    Love,

    Caz
    X
    "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


    Comment


    • #77
      Same Old Same Old!

      Originally posted by ellen View Post
      I am willing to listen to you, but you must lay out your ideas/opinions/arguments in a clear concise manner.

      Please drop the bad poetry and use bullet points. Maybe, this way, you could convince rational people that you have something they should listen to.

      I hope you do not take offense by my post as I meant none. I truly would like to make sense of your ideas/private knowledge, etc. It seems even Shirley Harrison thinks you have a kernel of truth somewhere, but no one can figure it out in all that mush you've been serving up.

      So, please, lay your thought out clearly and maybe you'll gain some converts.
      G'day Ellen

      Yes, that's exactly what Mr Powell is trying to do, tell his story to anyone that wants to listen............................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............................

      FOR SEVEN YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      I think it's only fair to warn you that Mr Powell fancies himself as a poet, so he won't be stopping the poetry any time soon!

      You also need to know that he says he's run a theatre for 15 years and he sure loves the drama his story evokes!

      His story doesn't suit bullet points, but I sure wish someone would point a b.............

      Never mind

      Regards

      Eileen

      Comment


      • #78
        Sorry Caroline, but you should go back and read what I wrote in my original post on the subject to see that I did indeed quote Paul directly.

        In his post he referred specifically to, "a latter day ripper author 'fitting up' a very implausible hospital in-patient as some sort of attempt to deflect the limelight away from the diary!"

        Chris George then informed me that Paul was referring to Melvin Harris.

        The idea that the reason Melvin Harris "fitted up" his preferred suspect was "as some sort of attempt to deflect the limelight away from the diary" is patent nonsense.

        You and I both know that.

        The fact that you choose to defend this ridiculous statement of Paul's rather than admit what you know to be the case tells me everything I need to know about what is really going on here. It's not about what is true and what isn't, obviously. It's just about some wierd sense of misplaced loyalty to a cause.

        I don't care a whit about D'Onston or Melvin's theory. I care about the nonsensical claim that Melvin developed the theory "as some sort of attempt to deflect the limelight away from the diary." That's what Paul wrote. Those are his words. That's his claim. And it's absurd.

        Please, the least you can do here is to admit the obvious.

        Othwerwise, all your noble words about Steve's silliness are really rather worthless.

        And yes, long ago I wrote on these boards that unless and until Steve produced at least some evidence to support what he writes here no one should take any of it seriously. Nor it seems should they take Paul Butler's ludicrous nonsense seriously either, since he has no evidence to back it up, apparently.

        Meanwhile, here's a simple question for you. You have now claimed in public that the super secret evidence you claim to have seen lets all potential A.N. Other modern "forgers off the hook."

        Why should anyone believe you?

        --John

        Comment


        • #79
          Hate to break this to you, but I think I just found a diary in which James Maybrick admits to being the second gunman in the grassy knoll in Dallas on a certain December morn, 1963....

          Not bad for a guy about 80 years dead at that time!
          All my blogs:
          MessianicMusings.com, ScriptSuperhero.com, WonderfulPessimist.com

          Currently, I favor ... no one. I'm not currently interested in who Jack was in name. My research focus is more comparative than identification-oriented.

          Comment


          • #80
            Diary In Dallas

            Hi Craig. That's fabulous. Did the diary mention magic bullets and Bunny?

            Cheers

            Comment


            • #81
              If he was dead Craig,

              It is believed that he faked his death and his poor wife took the blame, and he vanished of the face of the Earth.
              It was during this time he set up a company for rock stars, film stars, and other notable people to also do the same.
              Last I heard he was in a cryogenic pod next to Walt Disney, the pod was paid for by Elvis, Lord Lucan and Jimmy Hoffa.
              I know this to be true because some one told me.

              Mike
              Regards Mike

              Comment


              • #82
                !!!!!!! .........

                Hi Eileen,

                The size in which you wrote "For Seven Years" .. and your over
                exuberant use of !!!!!! and ..........
                seems to me to be in direct relation to the size of your exaggeration
                of the facts.
                Your inference is that Steve has been 'here' continuously for seven years.
                On the crashed thread, I picked you up on that same point, when you said
                the same thing ..
                The fact is that he was here 7 or 8 years ago for 'a period of time' .. but
                nothing like seven continuous years.
                We know he came back last year .. so it is the gap between, that
                is approx SEVEN YEARS.

                So the next logical question would be to ask yourself .. why would someone
                come back again seven years later .. to possibly be treated again in a negative manner?

                Could it just be, that he knows something of the truth, about the origin
                of the diary .. and feels the story has to be told, whatever the cost?

                I personally think this to be the case, I understand your scepticism though,
                and I do have a slight advantage because I was there and can concur with some parts of the story.

                All the best Eileen,

                Victoria

                PS. Wednesday 5th
                Eileen, how about this .. looks like I can still edit days after posting.
                I mean't no offence to you by my post, I can see by the way you wrote,
                that Steve causes you much frustration .. I probably do too.
                Last edited by Victoria; 03-05-2008, 02:40 PM. Reason: because I can.... 2 days later.
                "Victoria Victoria, the queen of them all,
                of Sir Jack she knows nothing at all"

                Comment


                • #83
                  Question.

                  Howdy Troopers,
                  A question I'd like to hear your opinion on....

                  What do you think the relationship
                  between Mike Barrett and Paul Feldman
                  was like?

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Steve,

                    I think the only evidence we have of how Feldman and Barrett 'got on' is in Feldy's book. Reading that, it would seem that Feldy considered Mike to be a sad case, a drunk whose life had fallen apart, and who could probably be exploited for the sake of his, Feldman's, theory. On the other hand, maybe this is too simplistic. Maybe Barrett saw in Feldman his ticket to riches and was doing some twisting around his little finger for his own end. If I were a cynic, which I ain't, I'd have said that a Scouser wide-boy and a clever Jewish entrepreneur was a damn good combination if their aim was to make a bob or two....

                    All the best,

                    Graham
                    We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Feldman and Barrett

                      Graham,
                      Thanks for that observation and deduction.
                      I think this could be taken as the general opinion
                      regarding the association of Barrett and Feldman.
                      It is the view that we are meant to see, via Feldman.

                      I think that Feldman saw Mike Barrett as a threat
                      to his plan of wanting to use Anne as a relative of jtr.
                      I bet they argued long and loud about the provenance of the diary.
                      Barrett threatened to expose the whole hoax,
                      disclosing Feldman's involvement as well.
                      Did Barrett try to sidestep Feldman
                      by making up the Tony Devereux story?
                      And then out of desperation, his confession?

                      These two guys hated each other
                      as they were both a threat, to each other.
                      Feldman was a threat to Mike Barrett's family,
                      and Barrett was a threat to Feldman's future.
                      Mike didn't have a chance when Anne sided with Feldman.

                      regards,
                      Steve Powell
                      sat8mar2008

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        I need a part-time researcher.

                        I need a part-time researcher in or near Liverpool for my book.
                        Anyone interested can send me a private message.

                        Steve Powell
                        sun9mar2008

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Does anyone have any information on the 'rumor'
                          of Robbie Johnson's murder?
                          I've noticed it mentioned a few times
                          without any other reference to it.
                          What's it all about Alfie?

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            The Maybrick Quest.

                            The view from the casebook.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Maybrick..and on..and on...and

                              Hi. I have no vested interest in Maybrick being the Ripper or not being the Ripper. I would just like to know the truth. However, my biggest problem with the Diary remains the lack of provenance. Too many stories that are changed too often. It either is or it isn't.

                              Cheers

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Well... I think that if this thread is sent to Pub Talk then the whole Maybrick should go too, since the Maybrick bunch have NEVER proved their claim that it is genuine, have they ?

                                Show me the proof and I would believe the nonsense but as more than a decade has now passed... I think it highly unlikely that a fake diary will over night become " genuine " at the moment it continues to be only a worthless photograph album nothing more.

                                If this thread is being sent to Pub Talk I would say there is favouritism for the authors and all those who financially gain from the hoax by selling their books on the hoax.

                                But on the contrary... Grey Hunter has written he was there when the provenance of the diary was changed because the building they at first claim it came from... had been demolished ! When this piece of information had been told to Feldman... he simply changed the venue of the provenance err... if that is not being deceitful... I don´t know what it is.

                                -Maria
                                Last edited by Maria; 03-13-2008, 02:50 PM.

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