Separate Bathrooms by Religion? - A New Front in Transgender Debate

[GUT]

"Crapping ken" (the crap house) is attested in the OED of 1846, as a synonym for 'privy', which places it safely in use before Mr. Crapper opened for business in 1861. Oddly the OED doesn't list the verb 'to crap', but it's conclusively implied by the gerund 'crapping'.

Oh yes Privvy.

[GUT]

Good old fashioned Sh!thouse.

[Ginger]

Sorry, can't agree. If the word "crap" was used in Britain prior to Mr Crapper's noble invention, then his name must have been a massive coincidence.

"Crapping ken" (the crap house) is attested in the OED of 1846, as a synonym for 'privy', which places it safely in use before Mr. Crapper opened for business in 1861. Oddly the OED doesn't list the verb 'to crap', but it's conclusively implied by the gerund 'crapping'.

[Robert]

Or maybe 'powder my nose' for women.

[Robert]

Pte Godfrey says 'convenience.' But I thought the word normally used by Americans was 'john.'

[Graham]

You left out

Loo
Thunder box
Toilet
Little boys/girls room
Head (sailors)

But glad to see you included Dunny

Ah hah - "Loo" is actually from the French 'la lieu', meaning 'the place', that is the place where one went to relieve oneself. Some say it comes from 'Waterloo', after the battle of 1815, meaning a water-closet.

'Thunder box' is, I suggest, Australian. It has that antipodean ring about it.

'Little boys/girls room is Methodist minister-speak'' i.e., from someone who denies that bodily functions do happen.

'Head' I did indeed mention.

When I lived in the USA, I had cause once to fly from Cleveland to Chicago (and there are those who would agree with me that Cleveland is a good place to fly from). Anyway, next to me was an elderly geezer, grey-haired, conservatively dressed. After a few minutes he cleared his throat, leaned towards me, and whispered, "Where is the, er, bathroom, please?" Me, being a sophisticated Englishman, said, "Why, do you need a bath?" The guy's embarrassment was hugely entertaining and I made the most of it. He really could have been a Methodist minister. "Er, no...", said he. "I, er, need to, er, go....". I let him off the hook (eventually) and told him it was at the back end of the plane. Why on earth are people, and Americans above all, so bloody discomforted about natural functions? I need to know.

Graham

[GUT]

Hi Pat,

well, the word "Crapper" comes directly from the firm Thomas Crapper Ltd, Kings Road, Chelsea, London - they manufactured the world's first practical flushing toilets. "Head" is a naval expression - on sailing ships the 'head' was usually situated at the stern of the ship, and was simply a stout plank with a large hold in it nailed to the structure of the ship. "Outhouse" is exactly what it implies - a small structure outside the main house, equipped with a seat and a pit (if you were lucky) filled with straw to contain the, er, waste products. If you know about the Road Hill House Murder case of 1860, as investigated by Inspector Whicher, you'll know that the body of the murdered baby was found in the outhouse, which the police had to effectively dismantle and....we'll leave it at that.

In England, we also have "Lav", "Bog", "Can", "Throne", "Cloakroom" (if you're posh, that is), "Khazi" (Anglo-Indian), "Dunny" (Australian, but sometimes used here), "Gents" or "Ladies" (in public places), "Ladies Room" (posh), "Urinal", "ablutions" (military), "netty" (Geordie).....and others.

And before you ask - yes, I have made a life-long study of this.

Graham

You left out

Loo
Thunder box
Toilet
Little boys/girls room
Head (sailors)

But glad to see you included Dunny

[Graham]

The verb "to crap" meaning to defecate was in use in Britain for many years before Mr Crapper's business.

However it was not commonly used in America until after the introduction of his brand of loos.

So it probably is the origin of the American word, but not the English one.

Sorry, can't agree. If the word "crap" was used in Britain prior to Mr Crapper's noble invention, then his name must have been a massive coincidence.

The origin of the word "craps" reference the gambling game is from the French word crapaud meaning 'toad', descriptive of the stooping-crouching stance of players engaged in the game in the street. I would politely suggest that the crouching stance of street "craps" players gave rise to the word 'crap' meaning defecation, as in past times when hygienic amenities were rare, people would 'crouch' in the street (or hopefully behind a wall) to relieve themselves. Maybe.

Graham

(Excuse, must rush....)

[Azarna]

Hi Pat,

well, the word "Crapper" comes directly from the firm Thomas Crapper Ltd, Kings Road, Chelsea, London - they manufactured the world's first practical flushing toilets.
Graham

The verb "to crap" meaning to defecate was in use in Britain for many years before Mr Crapper's business.

However it was not commonly used in America until after the introduction of his brand of loos.

So it probably is the origin of the American word, but not the English one.

[Graham]

Well, we could use terms such as "crapper", "head", or "outhouse", but we're taught as children that the polite term is "bathroom" or "restroom". Strange, since in a public example of such a place, one neither takes a bath nor a very long rest.

Hi Pat,

well, the word "Crapper" comes directly from the firm Thomas Crapper Ltd, Kings Road, Chelsea, London - they manufactured the world's first practical flushing toilets. "Head" is a naval expression - on sailing ships the 'head' was usually situated at the stern of the ship, and was simply a stout plank with a large hold in it nailed to the structure of the ship. "Outhouse" is exactly what it implies - a small structure outside the main house, equipped with a seat and a pit (if you were lucky) filled with straw to contain the, er, waste products. If you know about the Road Hill House Murder case of 1860, as investigated by Inspector Whicher, you'll know that the body of the murdered baby was found in the outhouse, which the police had to effectively dismantle and....we'll leave it at that.

In England, we also have "Lav", "Bog", "Can", "Throne", "Cloakroom" (if you're posh, that is), "Khazi" (Anglo-Indian), "Dunny" (Australian, but sometimes used here), "Gents" or "Ladies" (in public places), "Ladies Room" (posh), "Urinal", "ablutions" (military), "netty" (Geordie).....and others.

And before you ask - yes, I have made a life-long study of this.

Graham

[Pcdunn]

Not OK in Okalahoma-- impeach Obama!

I'm not going to even try to understand this. What on earth has religion to do with going to the bog?

It is Oklahoma's attempt to avoid having a law decreeing that transgender individuals may use the public restroom matching the gender they identify with, not the sex they were born with. So male to female transgendered people might enter a Ladies' room, for instance, while female to male transgendered people might enter the Gent's room. (Why this is considered safer than the current set-up, I don't understand.)

Now, I think this is silly, because my workplace has some single-occupancy restrooms that include both urinals and toilet stalls, and they can be locked while in use, just as airplane lavatories can. It seems the most logical and safest solution.

But Oklahomans are often fundamental Christians, who believe the Bible literally, and feel "God created them male and female" means that's all there is, thank you very much. They are saying, fine, let's invoke our freedom of religion and have school bathrooms our Christian kids can use without worrying that a "girl" with a penis under her skirt will come in and molest our daughters.

They have also started a campaign to impeach President Obama, for making a ruling that offends them. Yet, the Supreme Court pointed out that Oklahoma's attempted state law against transgender bathrooms was unconstitutional.

I am almost ashamed to be an American.

[Pcdunn]

One of the things that amused me about Americans when I lived in the USA was their use of 'bathroom' as a euphemism. Do the words 'toilet', 'lavatory', 'WC' and that wonderfully descriptive French word 'pissoir' really cause embarrassment? Even in 2016?

Graham

Well, we could use terms such as "crapper", "head", or "outhouse", but we're taught as children that the polite term is "bathroom" or "restroom". Strange, since in a public example of such a place, one neither takes a bath nor a very long rest.

[Robert]

I'm not going to even try to understand this. What on earth has religion to do with going to the bog?

[c.d.]

One of the things that amused me about Americans when I lived in the USA was their use of 'bathroom' as a euphemism. Do the words 'toilet', 'lavatory', 'WC' and that wonderfully descriptive French word 'pissoir' really cause embarrassment? Even in 2016?

Graham

Apparently so. We Americans are a sensitive people.

I remember being in London and asking the proprietor of the place where I was staying where the bathroom was located. She gave me a strange look and asked me if I was sure I wanted to use the bathroom. I replied damn sure. It took a little while for us to get on the same page as to what was required.

c.d.

[Joshua Rogan]

Apart from the French one, aren't those words all euphemisms?