a6 murder

[Limehouse]

Hi Jimbow,

Great to hear from you. I look forward to exchanging ideas and views with you.

Do you know, Canada is the one and only country that could get me living outside the UK. I don't know why but it's the only one that appeals to me.

[Steve]

what aboot alphon's use of the telephone as a terror weapon? jean justice said he was a master of it.

Very good point, Larue. Yes, Alphon was a Telephone Terrorist! Perhaps, though, using a telephone to attack someone is not quite the same as ambushing someone with a gun.

[Steve]

I wish I'd never mentioned white socks as I now feel rather foolish).

Sorry, Limehouse, didn't mean to embarrass you, just having a bit of fun – promise not to mention white socks ever again!

[Tony]

The gloves are off again

To whom it may concern,

I have NEVER worn white socks...pale yellow ones, yes, but white - never. As it happens, white socks WERE worn in the 1950's and 1960's, as (sad to say) I well remember. But only with casual clothes, never for example with a suit, collar and tie.

With regard to the gloves, I think we are entering a bit of a grey area here.
Louise Anderson was, not to put too fine a point on it, a crook. Hanratty certainly used her as a fence for his stolen stuff, and if he did, then you can bet your bippie so did others. I would say that Acott and his merry men saw in Louise a splendid opportunity to apply pressure. I would say that she was very severely leaned upon, under threat of prosecution, to more or less do and say what Acott wanted her to do and say. As Steve correctly says, the 'gloves in Alphon's case' were highlighted in Nudds' highly-suspect second statement; chances are that Julianna Galves was also leaned upon, possibly down to some problem with her UK work-permit or whatever foreigners needed to have in those times. It has always struck me as odd that Louise should mention the stolen gloves - frankly, who would care about a pair of gloves that go missing? My reading is, that so long as Alphon was a suspect,
Acott was quite willing to manufacture evidence against him. Alphon did the best thing he could do, and refuse to disclose to Acott the location of his suitcase.

At best, the 'gloves evidence' is simply heresay; at worst, a police attempt at a plant.

With regards to Alphon's sexuality, I too think he was asexual, but had the sheer natural acting ability to lay gay-ness (is that a word?) on thick and heavy when it suited him, apropos Jean Justice and the latter's wealth.

It has often struck me that the 'evidence' emanating from The Vienna Hotel was crude, bungled and misfired, courtesy of good old Basil and his chums.

Cheers,

Graham

Can somebody please clear this point up for me with regards to the sighting of the gloves in Alphon’s suitcase? (The suitcase that Alphon refused to hand over to Acott.)
Firstly Steve and then Graham said it was contained within the Nudds second statement.

I might be wrong but I can’t find any reference in the Nudds second statement that mentions gloves.
He says he sent his wife and Mrs Galves to tell Alphon to vacate his room at 11.45 AM. This is also peculiar as Mrs Galves appears to have been in charge.

I believe the only time the gloves in the case were mentioned was by Julianna Galves and I repeat I don’t think anyone has ever said she was anything other than honest and reliable.

Where did Mrs Galves statement come from and when was it made?

Tony.

[Steve]

Alphon's School Days

Whilst we are on the subject of Peter Alphon, in The Final Verdict Woffinden makes a mistake about Alphon’s school days. He states that Alphon finished his schooling in 1945 at Quintin Kynaston which, Woffinden tells us, was in St Johns Wood close to where the France family home was.

This cannot be an accurate account of Alphon’s school days because Quintin Kynaston only came into existence in the 1950s with the merger of two schools. (The Quintin school was named after Quintin Hogg, grandfather of the politician with the same name.) The St Johns Wood site was purpose-built in 1956, long after Alphon had left school.

Kind regards,
Steve

[Steve]

The Gloves

Where did Mrs Galves statement come from and when was it made?

Tony.

Tony, was it not Nudds and Snell telling the police in their second statements what they said Mrs Galves had told them about seeing the gloves in the luggage? If that was the case the evidence would have been hearsay and not admissible in court.

[Tony]

More on Gloves

Tony, was it not Nudds and Snell telling the police in their second statements what they said Mrs Galves had told them about seeing the gloves in the luggage? If that was the case the evidence would have been hearsay and not admissible in court.

Hi Steve,

As I have already said I can not find any reference to gloves in Nudd’s second statement or any mention by Florence Snell of the gloves in Alphon’s case.
The only reference to the gloves comes from Mrs Galves and there is, as far as I know, no indications anywhere that she told either Nudds or Snell what she had seen. I feel this is a serious point and needs clearing up.
I’m sure people cleaning hotel rooms notice things far more peculiar than a man having a pair of ladies gloves in his case so Mrs Galves probably wouldn’t have mentioned it and anyway she was at odds with Nudds and Snell at this time and possibly wasn’t on speaking terms with them.

I am sure contributors will now relate any number of peculiar things seen by staff in hotel rooms.

Tony

[Tony]

Hi all. Since living in the Cookham area in 1971 and reading, with fascination, the serialization of Foot's book in 'The Sun' (that distinguished periodical that still exists today) en-route to, would you believe, Paddington each morning, I have been intrigued (nay, fascinated) by the A6 murder. I should point out that the express from Maidenhead passed right through Taplow station, without stopping, but I well remember the station sign as it flashed by. Can't say I was ever at the Old Station Inn, mind!! May I compliment you all (as other 'newcomers' have done) on the extremely civil manner in which you conduct yourselves, even when expressing a differing opinion to the person you're replying to.

Was in B'Pool last year (on holiday from Canada) and spotted the Stevonia on Central Drive (just like Steve's pic). Hope to be able to join in and even contribute to this fascinating forum (albeit from Calgary!!) in the future. next time I'm home I plan on taking a trip to the area in question, including Dorney Reach and maybe even Deadman's Hill itself.

I well remember going over from Northern Ireland to work in Cookham and the (late) wife and I staying at the rather expensive Bear Hotel (in 1971, 9-10 years after the murder) and the very kind receptionist there, sensing that we were a young, recently-married couple and, as such, not too well-heeled, directing us instead (after a couple of costly evenings at the Bear) to the somewhat less-expensive Elva Lodge (still in existence).

Regards,
Jim

Hello and a very warm welcome to you Jimbow,

Let me get this straight you came from Canada and went to Blackpool on holiday?

Canada with the Rocky Mountains, some of the finest scenery in the world, a short drive to Niagara Falls, a long drive, depending where you live, to California or through the Smokey Mountains and the Carolinas down to Florida and you actually went to Blackpool?

I last visited the mighty Blackpool about four years ago and ended up at the Pleasure Beach with my family. We dined in a type of pizza establishment which to me more resembled a Derbyshire quarry than a restaurant; oh my head is starting to spin with the memories. After I had ordered drinks and food I thought I would have been better off spending the money on hiring a steam cleaner to wash the tables. The waitress made a vain attempt to wipe the table but it was an unachievable task. I watched in fascination as her arm shook as her cloth bounced over the stuck-on pizza remains of the week.

We then ventured into the actual Pleasure Beach (no pleasure at all really) and I treated my little grandson to a ride on some cars that were on tracks but had steering wheels so that you could pretend you were driving. When he got off I did a quick calculation and realised that for what this car ride cost I could have run a Rolls Royce far more cheaply.
Setting off for home we drove up the Golden Mile (?) and every time we stopped somebody banged on the window trying to sell us a Kiss me Quick hat or a toffee apple for 50 quid.
Hope you enjoyed yourself.
Only kidding about the 50 quid toffee apple; it was actually 45.

All a joke but nice to hear from you.

Tony

[jimarilyn]

Can somebody please clear this point up for me with regards to the sighting of the gloves in Alphon’s suitcase? (The suitcase that Alphon refused to hand over to Acott.)
Firstly Steve and then Graham said it was contained within the Nudds second statement.

I might be wrong but I can’t find any reference in the Nudds second statement that mentions gloves.
He says he sent his wife and Mrs Galves to tell Alphon to vacate his room at 11.45 AM. This is also peculiar as Mrs Galves appears to have been in charge.

I believe the only time the gloves in the case were mentioned was by Julianna Galves and I repeat I don’t think anyone has ever said she was anything other than honest and reliable.

Where did Mrs Galves statement come from and when was it made?

Tony.

Hi Tony,

You're absolutely correct. There is no mention of the black ladie's gloves in Nudds's second statement to the police made on 21st September 1961. It was Mrs. Galves only who remarked about these gloves which particularly caught her eye when she entered Alphon's hotel room about 11.45 am the morning of the murder.

As you say she (and her husband) were about the only honest witnesses employed at the Vienna. Her statement was made to the police on September 12th 1961, the day after the two spent cartridge cases were suspiciously discovered in room 24 of that hotel.

[Graham]

Gloves in Alphon's Suitcase

I've just glanced through Woffinden, and I have to say that Nudds' second statement doesn't contain any reference to Mrs Galves' seeing the contents of Alphon's suitcase. Like Steve, I've been under the impression that this is the source of the 'gloves sighting'. However, also according to Woffinden, Mrs Galves' own statement to the police made no mention of her seeing any gloves - just dirty clothing. But on Page 427 of Woffinden's paperback edition I find that Galves sees the suitcase containing 'dirty clothing', and also a pair of 'black ladies gloves' lying on top.

Now I have to be honest and confess that I've spent only a short time leafing through Woffinden, so I might have missed something; but to whom did Mrs Galves state that she had seen the gloves?

Puzzled.

Graham

[Steve]

I cannot find anywhere in Woffinden's book where he attributes the gloves sighting, he just mentions it seemingly as a fact. Did he make it up?

[Graham]

I cannot find anywhere in Woffinden's book where he attributes the gloves sighting, he just mentions it seemingly as a fact. Did he make it up?

Steve,

I have to admit that that is my taking on the subject of the gloves.

I've just thumbed through Foot, who mentions on Page 67 of the hardback that Mrs Galves recalled seeing an open suitcase in Alphon's room and that it contained 'dirty linen', but no mention of any gloves. And this, as it happens, is contained in Foot's complete version of Nudd's second statement (I think Woffinden's version is somewhat edited). Somehow, and somewhere, I think I made the mistake of seeing the 'gloves sighting' in Nudds' second statement.

Where Woffinden came across this information regarding the gloves we'll probably never know, but it does seem artificial. So who precisely did Mrs Galves make this statement to? Or did it exist only in Woffinden's imagination?

Cheers,

Graham

[Steve]

Hi Graham

In Woffinden's text he interweaves the gloves bit with his account of Nudds’ & Snell’s evidence without any direct attribution. He seems to be the only author mentioning this, so it has to be his own invention.

Did you look at the post I made earlier about Woffinden’s account of Alphon’s schooldays? That seems to be another fabrication, deliberately placing Alphon during his formative years close to Dixie and Ewer in an attempt to convince the reader that Alphon was the more likely A6 murderer than Hanratty.

Kind regards,
Steve

[jimarilyn]

Where Woffinden came across this information regarding the gloves we'll probably never know, but it does seem artificial. So who precisely did Mrs Galves make this statement to? Or did it exist only in Woffinden's imagination?

Graham.

see post 1119, second paragraph

[Graham]

Hi Graham

In Woffinden's text he interweaves the gloves bit with his account of Nudds’ & Snell’s evidence without any direct attribution. He seems to be the only author mentioning this, so it has to be his own invention.

Did you look at the post I made earlier about Woffinden’s account of Alphon’s schooldays? That seems to be another fabrication, deliberately placing Alphon during his formative years close to Dixie and Ewer in an attempt to convince the reader that Alphon was the more likely A6 murderer than Hanratty.

Kind regards,
Steve

Hi Steve,

I did see your post about Alphon's schooldays, but have to confess I didn't make the link that you did. However, it does seem that our Bob wasn't above a touch of imaginative reporting when it suited him. Foot seems much more reliable.

And this, I have to say, is why I think Miller's book is a 'must' for any serious student of the A6 Case. Miller puts an alternative take on many 'givens' in the A6 Case, which I think is very important, otherwise matters would be very one-sided.

Cheers,

Graham