a6 murder

[Steve]

Hi Simon

Yes, received OK - I've replied to the PM.

Kind regards,
Steve

[Limehouse]

I wonder what it was designed to protect them from exactly ???

To stop members of the public finding out personal details and bombarding witnesses, victims, and members of the accused's familieswith crank phone calls and letters.

After a major trial and appeal, all papers relating to the crime are bound up and stored, subject to a 30, 50 or 100 year rule. No one can access them unless the case is re-opened, in which case only authorised people are allowed access.

[jimarilyn]

I was just re-reading that article in the Yorkshire Post from August 23rd 1961. I had overlooked it on a previous reading but in the first paragraph (referring to the finding of the Morris Minor on Avondale Crescent) the article states....."It was found only 50 yards from the main road to Southend.....

This I find very interesting as Peter Alphon (in his confessions to the murder) always claimed that he went to Southend that day to meet Charles France and dispose of the gun.

[jimarilyn]

To stop members of the public finding out personal details and bombarding witnesses, victims, and members of the accused's familieswith crank phone calls and letters.

I notice this didn't stop a certain Peter Louis Alphon......

[Limehouse]

To answer both of your above posts jimarilyn, Alphon probably knew Avondale Crescent was very close to the main road to Southend and that is why he mentioned Southend in his 'confession'.

Alphon gained access to Hanratty's family because their street name was well publicised at the time. Once a trial is over, people want to return to normality. They don't want the press knocking on the door every few months or cranks contacting them or private investigators picking over the trial evidence.

Of course, it is easy to track someone down these days, what with computers and polling information available with a few keybaord strokes. Even forty seven years after the event, we have see on these boards how willing some people are to discover the personal addresses of victims.

[larue]

Hi Larue,

This rule was designed protect everyone who was involved in the case, including victims, their families, witnesses etc.

hmmmm. well, that's as maybe, but to protect them from what? the truth? i doubt it. seems to me that those 30/50/100 year rule things serve to protect the establishment moreso than anyone else. for example the british war cabinet records. anyone reading of events from the first world war period et al, in those records which occasionaly trickle out into the public domain will see more official whoopsies which have been hidden from the public gaze than anything else. why? probably the twin peaks of 'national security' or 'not in the public interest' yeah right!

[Steve]

Alphon probably knew Avondale Crescent was very close to the main road to Southend and that is why he mentioned Southend in his 'confession'.

Hi Limehouse

That was my first thought, but this point bears closer examination. Southend was only mentioned in connection with the case after the contemporary reports, so for the Yorkshire Post to state the Morris Minor was found close to the main road to Southend is strange.

The fact is that road is not actually the main road to Southend from London. The Morris Minor was found near the A12 Eastern Avenue which is the main road from London to Suffolk. The main road from London through Essex and to Southend is the A13. Yes, you can get to Southend by using the A12, but have to turn off at Gallows Corner onto the A127.

I know it is splitting hairs a little bit, but does illustrate the point that the Southend reference is odd!

KR
Steve

[Limehouse]

Hi Steve,

Yes, of course you are right. On trips to Southend from our side of London (north east London - not very far at all from the same Eastern Avenue), we always used this route and turned off at Gallows Corner. We used this route on holidays to Suffolk also.

Alphon may well have known of this route, as he would have been familiar with the dog tracks at Walthamstow and Southend and the routes between them, but there is no reason to suppose the Yorkshire Post would have done.

[Limehouse]

Access to Hanratty documents

With reference to the avaiability of information concerning the Hanratty case, it appears that the trial papers are closed for 75 years from the date of the trial end. However, the appeal papers are now open and available from the Public Records Office at Kew. Also stored at Kew and open to view are papers relating to a writ that Mr & Mrs Hanratty attempted to serve on Lord Butler (Home Secretary at the time of the execution) for damages for failing to order a stay of execution so that further evidence could be examined.

[Limehouse]

Here is another little gem concerning what appears to be a resident living close to the murder site who was involved in a long dispute with Bedfordshire County Council:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=004-cs_2&cid=1-17#1-17

Note the reference to an alleged 'framing' of James Hanratty!

[Steve]

Hi Limehouse

It seems that Harry W Newman was clutching at straws when he introduced the Hanratty case into his dispute with BCC. Somehow he reminds me of a landed version of Fogarty-Waul!

Kind regards,
Steve

[Limehouse]

Hi Steve,

Of all the accusations Mr Newman made against Bedfordshire County Council, this is my favourite:

Alleged BCC officers' involvement with KGB schemes to subvert the state and aid a Russian invasion

Seriously though, this man was a menace. Imagine how much public money must have been wasted investigating his ridiculous claims.

[Steve]

Hi Limehouse

This is pretty good too:

Alleged non-conformist and Roman Catholic conspiracies to destroy the Church of England and subvert the state
KR
Steve

[Steve]

Another top-class one (everyone knows the police have masonic connections!)

Alleged masonic influent within BCC and Bedfordshire Constabulary

It makes you wonder how many BCC employees were forced into early retirement caused through stress as a result!

[jimarilyn]

hmmmm. well, that's as maybe, but to protect them from what? the truth? i doubt it. seems to me that those 30/50/100 year rule things serve to protect the establishment moreso than anyone else. for example the british war cabinet records. anyone reading of events from the first world war period et al, in those records which occasionaly trickle out into the public domain will see more official whoopsies which have been hidden from the public gaze than anything else. why? probably the twin peaks of 'national security' or 'not in the public interest' yeah right!

Hi Larue,

As per usual another very perceptive observation. I couldn't agree with you more.

The Hanratty family must have been a huge thorn in the side of the establishment. Time after time they were disgracefully fobbed off ( in their heroic efforts to obtain a TOTALLY impartial and independent inquiry) regardless of which party was in power. James Hanratty senior, his wife Mary and sons Michael, Peter and Richard must have been very close indeed to tearing their hair out.