a6 murder

[Victor]

Yes, of course Valerie and gresten's family deserve their peace. That is why my post reads:

the Hanratty family and all those involved in this case to find peace.

Hi Julie,

Yes I read your comment, but I cannot see how repeating past mistakes - particularly the nonsensical "brown eyes" fiasco can ever hope to bring peace to Storie, the Gregstens, nor the Hanratty family. Surely they'd be much better off drawing a line under the case and moving forward, unless the Hanratty family feel in some way responsible for their "black sheep".

KR,
Vic.

[Limehouse]

Hi Julie,

What about Valerie Storie and the Gregsten family? Don't they deserve their peace too?

I agree that their are lots of unanswered questions though, but there are always going to be doubters even when it's "beyond reasonable doubt" for others.

I hope everyone had an enjoyable festive season.

KR,
Vic.

Hi Vic,

Yes, of course Valerie and gresten's family deserve their peace. That is why my post reads:

the Hanratty family and all those involved in this case to find peace.

..as my bold and underlining show.

Had a great Christmas thanks - now back at work and currently 'posting' illegally so must go!

[Victor]

I hope the latest campaign helps the Hanratty family and all those involved in this case to find peace. There are so many unanswered questions in this case. So much more could have been done at the time to get to the truth - the whole story should have been told and the motive more thoroughly investigated.

Hi Julie,

What about Valerie Storie and the Gregsten family? Don't they deserve their peace too?

I agree that their are lots of unanswered questions though, but there are always going to be doubters even when it's "beyond reasonable doubt" for others.

I hope everyone had an enjoyable festive season.

KR,
Vic.

[jason_c]

Yes - it is campaigning journalism and at times it has done society a very great service. For example - W T Stead was a 'campaigning journalist' who uncovered the sale of young girls into prostitution - as exposed in the Maiden Tribute of Modern Babylon'. Similarly - it was Jack London's 'campaignming journalism' that exposed the appalling treatment of inmates in workhouses as revealed in 'People of the Abyss'. It was also 'campaigning journalism' that brought to light the corruption of people like Peter Rachman who shamefully exploited the poorest of people.

Who is the 'Establishment?'. If they are corrupt and rotten - they should be stabbed at and exposed and made accountable - just like the rest of us.

Happy New Year to all A6 threaders.

None of which I disagree with.

Add to that list Norman Mailer's campaign for Jack Abbot.

[Limehouse]

Its called campaigning journalism. For a certain group of authors its a very attractive crowd to be in. A stab at the big bad "Establishment" doesnt hurt either.

Yes - it is campaigning journalism and at times it has done society a very great service. For example - W T Stead was a 'campaigning journalist' who uncovered the sale of young girls into prostitution - as exposed in the Maiden Tribute of Modern Babylon'. Similarly - it was Jack London's 'campaignming journalism' that exposed the appalling treatment of inmates in workhouses as revealed in 'People of the Abyss'. It was also 'campaigning journalism' that brought to light the corruption of people like Peter Rachman who shamefully exploited the poorest of people.

Who is the 'Establishment?'. If they are corrupt and rotten - they should be stabbed at and exposed and made accountable - just like the rest of us.

Happy New Year to all A6 threaders.

[Natalie Severn]

Paul foot wrote one of the most meticulously researched works ever published about a murder trial.Negligence obstinacy and ineptitude were all revealed to have been present and found in plenty among the powers that be....and it continues to the present.Contamination not only of fibres but right at the heart of our justice system.

[jason_c]

Hi Norma - Good post.

Yes -Paul Foot certainly went to a great deal of trouble to investigate avenues of this case not previously in the public eye. It is perhaps because of Paul's book that many people who had only a vague knowledge of the case actually took more of an interest.

It is also interesting to note that of the half dozen or so books written about this case - only Miller and Blom-Cooper (to my knowledge but please feel free to correct me if I am wrong) cast doubt on Hanratty's innocence.

Those who have raised doubts about his guilt - Foot - Lord Russell - Woffinden in particular - have all gone to great lengths to interview witnesses & potential witnesses and deconstruct the trial. Thye all put their reputations on the line - why would they do that for the sake of a petty criminal - if they did not believe deeply that az miscarriage of justice had been done?

Its called campaigning journalism. For a certain group of authors its a very attractive crowd to be in. A stab at the big bad "Establishment" doesnt hurt either.

[Limehouse]

Hi Norma - Good post.

Yes -Paul Foot certainly went to a great deal of trouble to investigate avenues of this case not previously in the public eye. It is perhaps because of Paul's book that many people who had only a vague knowledge of the case actually took more of an interest.

It is also interesting to note that of the half dozen or so books written about this case - only Miller and Blom-Cooper (to my knowledge but please feel free to correct me if I am wrong) cast doubt on Hanratty's innocence.

Those who have raised doubts about his guilt - Foot - Lord Russell - Woffinden in particular - have all gone to great lengths to interview witnesses & potential witnesses and deconstruct the trial. Thye all put their reputations on the line - why would they do that for the sake of a petty criminal - if they did not believe deeply that az miscarriage of justice had been done?

[Natalie Severn]

Alright, if no one else has the bollocks to print it then I will.

In the Daily Mail article by Stephen Wright, Richard Hanratty, James' youngest brother says;



[/COLOR][/LEFT]

The Government knew then that Hanratty was innocent. Never mind the latest DNA fit up.

The full article is here;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1342569/50-years-challenge-DNA-test-bid-clear-Hanratty.html

Derrick

Thanks Derrick and Julie .And its why its essential for people to read Paul Foot"s book because the evidence that was presented at the trial is shown ,by demonstrated facts , not to fit together in any way shape or form.Moreover Foot has demonstrated, by scrutinizing all that was reported by "witnesses" that both the Liverpool and Rhyl alibis were sound: Hanratty"s movements can be traced by Mrs Dinwoody,her granddaughter and her granddaughter"s friend on 22nd August 1961 first in Liverpool and later in Rhyl on 22nd August 1961,by Mrs Jones,her daughter,Mrs Brenda Davies,Mr Noel Davies ,Mrs Margaret Davies ,Mrs Margaret Walker and Mrs Ivy Vincent---not even including Mr Trevor Dutton and Mr Christopher Larman"s statements.
Foot also demonstrates that Scotland Yard had Hanratty"s name and his alias long before they started to hunt for him as the murderer-as early as the first week of September.Foot illustrates that within a week of the murder Janet Gregsten"s story of her mysterious "sighting" of James Hanratty on 31st August " the man with staring blue eyes"[Hanratty] had a very definite basis in fact and changed a very significant aspect of the suspect description given to the press the previous week.On the 31st August,the day Valerie Storie was moved from Bedford to Guy"s hospital and [co-incidently?] following a hospital visit made by Janet Gregsten,Valerie Storie changed her description of the murderer"s eyes,from deep set and brown to blue and staring. The story which was only allowed to be published after the trial in February 1962 in the Daily Sketch [and Mail]was that she had intuited the man she saw going into the Dry Cleaners opposite her brother in law"s "antique shop" to be her husband"s murderer.Very soon after the "sighting" by Janet Gregsten Hanratty was allegedly seen going into the Flower shop nearby by William Ewer. Foot demonstrates that William Ewer, Janet Gregsten"s brother in law later to become her lover,then called the police who came to talk to several shop keepers in the Swiss Cottage parade of shops.One of these was Mrs Dorothy Morrell- who was still manageress of the Flower shop, "Caters", when Paul Foot interviewed her in 1970.She remembered the visit of Hanratty on the day Janet Gregsten said she saw him go into her shop to send flowers to Mrs Hanratty in Sycamore Grove and still had the record of his purchase and the address the flowers were to be sent to---and she confirmed that soon afterwards,inquiries were made about Hanratty by two plain clothes policemen.
A very similar visit was made by Hanratty that very same week to the famous "Dry Cleaners" which Janet Gregsten had allegedly originally said he went into,according to the Daily Sketch story.In fact the Dry Cleaner visit by James Hanratty was also confirmed by the assistant in the Dry Cleaners who gave evidence on oath at the Trial that Hanratty had indeed placed his green trousers in there on 21st August at about 11 am and picked them up during the first week of September 1961.
Foot"s book is a a must for anyone interested in the truth.

[Limehouse]

Thanks for the link Derrick. I hope the latest campaign helps the Hanratty family and all those involved in this case to find peace. There are so many unanswered questions in this case. So much more could have been done at the time to get to the truth - the whole story should have been told and the motive more thoroughly investigated.

[Derrick]

Alright, if no one else has the bollocks to print it then I will.

In the Daily Mail article by Stephen Wright, Richard Hanratty, James' youngest brother says;

I went with my mum and dad to see the Home Secretary in 1973 because they wanted justice for James. The Home Secretary put his head in his hands and told my parents: “If your son was in prison now, I would have him out tomorrow.

The Government knew then that Hanratty was innocent. Never mind the latest DNA fit up.

The full article is here;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1342569/50-years-challenge-DNA-test-bid-clear-Hanratty.html

Derrick

[Natalie Severn]

Derrick-thanks---read this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/...2e80d03581%2C0
-another solid piece of reporting here in the Daily Telegraph and one I missed earlier.

[Graham]

At no time did I hear anyone actually say that it was the Hanratty defence-team and family who initially pushed hard for the DNA tests, then rather suddenly became somewhat less enthusiastic when the early results were not quite what they expected. I also can't recall anyone saying who would actually pay for new DNA tests. Or if there is sufficient material existing on which DNA tests could actually be made.

I didn't catch the last 4 or 5 minutes of the piece, so apologise if any of the above were actually addressed.

Happy New Year to one and all!

Graham

[Derrick]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Hanratty.html

[jason_c]

After listening to the broadcast im starting to believe the case of James Hanratty is now turning into a defence of Paul Foot.