The unsolved national murder cases...

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Celesta!

He has always claimed, that a blow to his head caused him amnesia! However, in the 2004 inquest he seemed to remember a lot more than he had said earlier...

The public thought for years, that it was some dead-drunk(what a metaphor!) person facing the camping area by random. But Nils's girl-friend had a lot worse injuries than the others!

All the best
Jukka

[j.r-ahde]

Hello again, Celesta!

One thing came to my head and I had to speak it out;

What if Mary Little knew too much about the sex-scandal of the bank?!

All right, A b-class Rex Stout here, but I asked anyway...

All the best
Jukka

[Celesta]

Hello again, Celesta!

One thing came to my head and I had to speak it out;

What if Mary Little knew too much about the sex-scandal of the bank?!

All right, A b-class Rex Stout here, but I asked anyway...

All the best
Jukka

Hiddy-ho Jukka,

That makes two b-class Rex Stouts! I don't know what Mary might have known, but I wonder about Diane. I have also wondered if Diane saw something that night at the mall and whether they might have encountered someone they knew and it just didn't register, or she was afraid to say anything about it. Or she witnessed something at the bank, either before or after Mary was killed, or both. It eventually got her killed, too.

I think it's possible for an amnesiac to remember more over time, but if it's trauma-induced amnesia, I believe it's less likely the person will remember much. Nils probably did it.

Have a good weekend, J.

Best...

Celesta

[Mayerling]

Well, if it is a matter of unsolved national "deaths" I can suggest a couple which should be considered. They may not be murders...but there were always questions.

1) German inventor Rudolf Diesel - he drowned on a business trip to Britain in 1913. He was about to introduce his engine to the British navy. He had some financial problems, so suicide has been usually suggested (that he threw himself from the steamer). But could he have been killed by German agents?

2) Meriweather Lewis - died on the Natchez Trace from multiple stab wounds.
He was on the way to Washington, D.C. (it was 1809) to face questions of mismanagement of the Governorship of the Louisiana Territory. He may have committed suicide (most commentators say he did). However there are strong reasons to think he was killed by political enemies (to silence him) or robbers like the Harpe Brothers or Sam Mason on the Trace itself. See VARDIS FISHER'S MURDER OR SUICIDE: THE STRANGE DEATH OF MERIWEATHER LEWIS.

3) Alexandre Stavisky - the French swindler apparently committed suicide when the police were about to arrest him. But, as the novelist Celine said of an earlier "opportune" suicide, "Was he helped?" His frauds involved extensive cover-ups by various socialist politicians, and the scandals brought down the left of center Chautemps Government in 1934. A subsequent investigation by an irreproachable jurist ended when the jurist died under odd circumstances on a railroad line. The true story seems buried forever.

4) Crown Prince Rudolf of Austria Hungary - died at Mayerling in January 1889with his mistress Countess Maria Vetsara probably in a suicide compact. Most likely it was, but there have been persistant rumors (which I mentioned on another thread a few days ago) that they were murdered for political reasons, possibly by agents of Otto von Bismarck (whose "Dual Alliance" with
Austria was opposed by Rudolf). It could also been plotted by Austrian agents who suspected that Rudolf was in a plot against Emperor Franz Josef, his father.

5) King Ludwig II of Bavaria - died at Lake Starnberg probably of a heart attack or drowning in 1886. His incredible expenditures on three costly palaces had seemingly bankrupted Bavaria. He was high-handed with his advisers. He seemed to much under the thumb of his chum Richard Wagner
(for whom he created the Bayreuth Festival). He was overthrown as being mentally incompetent.

This so-called mental incompetent left three tourist attractions and the Wagner Festival to permenantly replenish his nation's treasury (which they still do). He also had tried to save Bavarian independence in 1866 siding with Austria against Bismarck's Prussia in the Seven Weeks War, but losing with his cousin Hapsburgs (he was a Wittelsbach - his cousin Elizabeth was Empress of Austria, and Rudolf was his cousin too). However, after 1870 he was a perpetual thorn in Bismarck's side leading the so-called "petty" princes of three quarters of the German Reich to demand parity on postal and coin
rates above 1 mark, and to have a critical role in the upper house of the Government (the Bundesrat) which represented the aristocracy. Bismarck had to swallow it, though he managed to control it - with difficulty.

His death is ascribed to a sudden attack and murder of his physician therapist Dr. Gudden, and an attempt to escape swimming the lake (hence his body in the lake). It could have been. More than likely it was. But he could have been murdered - possibly by agents of Bismarck again.

6. James V. Forresthal - The last Navy Secretary to have Cabinet rank, and first Secretary of Defense (under President Truman) was a brilliant administrator - he made a first rate reputation in Wall Street and the law before FDR picked him for the War Cabinet. But he had an apparent breakdown in 1948, and resigned his office. He was hospitalized in Walter Reed Hospital in Washington, when in January 1949 he apparently jumped out of a window as a suicide.

But there is a constant rumor that it wasn't - that either political enemies, or Soviet agents, or even Mossad Israeli Agents (Forresthal had been opposed to the creation of the state of Israel) were behind it. This, by the way, was
only one year after another mysterious defresnatration.

7. Jan Maseryk - the nephew of the founder of Czechoslavakia was Foreign Minister of that country when it got freed of the Nazis in 1945. But he faced the other great tyranny now: Stalin's Soviet Union. When the state fell under
Russian control in 1948, Maseryk reportedly was so depressed he committed suicide by throwing himself out of a window. But it has been a persistant rumor that Maseryk was thrown out of the window by Soviet troops.

8. Dag Hamershjoild - the best Secretary General in the history of the United Nations was killed in a plane crash while trying to broker a peace in the Congo in 1962. He could have been killed by Soviet Agents, American Agents, agents of one of the rival military groups fignting for the Congo...we don't know if it was shot down (though there is good reason to believe so) or an accident or who did it if it wasn't an accident.

9. General Sikorski - the "Prime Minister" of the Polish Government in Exile during the Second World War. He was landing in a plane at Gibraltar in 1943, when the plane crashed killing all aboard. An accident? There are persistant rumors that it was an assassination, and that the person behind it may very well have been Prime Minister Winston Churchill, doing it to placate a suspicious Joseph Stalin. A pay called SOLDIERS was written about this incident. Most historians dismiss this, but the rumor keeps resurfacing.

10. Marshall Italo Balbo - the Italian air marshal was the most popular figure of Fascist Italy in his day to most of the world. While he believed in the political concept of the "corporate state", Balbo was pro-West or Allied, believing that the future was best maintained if Italy remained close to Britain, France, and the U.S.He was polited to Germany, but had serious reservations about it's government. And he openly voiced his opinion.

As heir to Mussolini, he would head the government if Il Duce died. Il Duce strongly disagreed with Balbo's foreign policy views. In 1940, while landing in North Africa, Balbo's plane was shot down by "friendly fire" and all on board killed. Mussolini never visited the gravesite there. It has been wondered in the years since if it really was a "friendly fire" accident. By the way, Balbo's real popularity in the west is still evident. There is a street named for him in Chicago (he flew a flotilla of Italian planes across the Atlantic on a good-will trip to the Chicago World's Fair in 1933), and in the movie FIVE GRAVES TO CAIRO, Billy Wilder makes the friendly and likeable Italian General whom Rommel (Eric von Stroheim) and his staff dismiss look like Balbo. The actor playing the role is Fortunio Bonanova, and the resemblance is quite close.

There are plenty of other mysterious deaths one could list.

Jeff

[sdreid]

Hi Jeff,

It has also been posited that Forestall was tossed because he knew too much about the Roswell flying saucer crash.

Other assassination (or what?) cases that come to mind - Ron Brown - Rudolf Hess - Vince Foster - Harold Holt - Robert Maxwell - Roberto Calvi - you're right, it does go on and on.

[sdreid]

I would think, that he'd refuse, when asked.

I'm not all that impressed with the polygraph but sometimes I think the attitude a person has toward taking the test tells more than the test itself.

[Mayerling]

Hi Jeff,

It has also been posited that Forestall was tossed because he knew too much about the Roswell flying saucer crash.

Other assassination (or what?) cases that come to mind - Ron Brown - Rudolf Hess - Vince Foster - Harold Holt - Robert Maxwell - Roberto Calvi - you're right, it does go on and on.

Hi Stan,

If you check the Wikipedia they list many figures who met odd or mysterious ends, and the number has not been totally reached.

If Forresthal was tossed because of Roswell, who did it - American agents, Soviet agents, or little green men?

Jeff

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Stan!

I know, what you mean.

Anyway, a polygraph was made for Jeff McDonald (the Fatal Vision person), with his lawyers's staff, but he failed. So, his attorney never used it...

All the best
Jukka

[sdreid]

Jeff-Of course, the American agents did it because they were afraid he was going to talk. He was in Majestic Twelve after all.

Jukka-Yes, who pays for the test sometimes influences the results but I guess even that didn't help with McDonald.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Celesta!

After reading more carefully and looking at the map of North-Carolina;

Do you find it, possible that the company with Mary Little could have been heading for Wilmington?!

Or if/when they were bluffing, they tried to give that impression?

All the best
Jukka

[dougie]

Was the "Sam Sheppard case ever satisfactorily resolved to everyones satisfaction.....I think he was tried-convicted-served a few years- then acquitted,but is he still thought of as really guilty?...at least by members here?
regards

[sdreid]

Hi Dougie,

Regarding Dr. Sam, I'm about 60% that he was involved is some way; only about 25% that he did it himself. By involved, I mean that he either did it himself or hired it done. Too many things look "funny" for me to think otherwise.

That leaves 40% that he was either completely innocent or was protecting someone after the fact for some unknown reason.

[Celesta]

Hello Celesta!

After reading more carefully and looking at the map of North-Carolina;

Do you find it, possible that the company with Mary Little could have been heading for Wilmington?!

Or if/when they were bluffing, they tried to give that impression?

All the best
Jukka

Hi Jukka,

To give you an idea, it takes 4 to 5 hours to get from Atlanta to Charlotte, and that is with interstate highways. I don't know if the interstate had been built up to Charlotte in 1965. Maybe, but I don't think the roads were as efficient as they are today. There were a bunch of two-lane roads. I suspect it took longer in those days. The distance, according to Google is 246 miles. From Charlotte to Raleigh it's 167 miles, 2 hours and 44 minutes. From Charlotte to Wilmington, it's 197 miles, about 4 hours.

The first gas receipt was in Charlotte in the morning of Oct. 15. The second was in the late afternoon in Raleigh. Apparently there's a 12 hour gap in there, and the cops wondered if she was held prisoner in Charlotte.

My question is, were there no gas receipts between Atlanta and Charlotte?

This is so strange. Why didn't the gas attendents at the gas stations call the police when they saw a bloody woman?

As for going to Wilmington, it looks like they were headed more northerly since they were in Raleigh.

Any ideas, Jukka?

Best to you,

Celesta

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Celesta!

Some things coming to my mind;

Maybe the others ran out of cash between Atlanta and Charlotte?!

The behaviour of the gas station attendants is strange, indeed. Or they could have meant, that she was "bloody", but the head-wound didn't look bad. OK, this doesn't sound credible!

One thing, that struck me, was Mary trying to hide her face. Do you find it possible, that she knew the Charlotte attendant?! Yes, I know, that Charlotte is the main city of N.C., but still...

All the best
Jukka

[Celesta]

Hi Jukka,

I think Charlotte was still a fairly small town at that time. It has grown a lot over the last few decades though. Probably at least 2 and a half million now. Yes, she might have known the attendant.

I had the same idea about them running out of cash.

Take care,

Celesta