Bible John: A New Suspect by Jill Bavin-Mizzi

[Herlock Sholmes]

The newspaper article about Samson and Crows book slso states McInnes worked for a US Trading Stamp company (whatever that was, like green Shield reward stamps I guess) and fell out with management owing to missing meetings on Thursday nights to go to Barrowland.

Increasingly odd really because with all these trips to Barrowland he must have bee reasonably well known there especially with staff wouldnt he?

Another point to consider is the risk that he would have taken in going to the Barrowland when he met Helen Puttock considering that the photo fit was displayed after the murder of Jemima MacDonald. Had he not been there after the MacDonald murder (August 17th) until the night that he’d met Helen Puttock (October 30th) so that he wasn’t aware that the photo fit was on display? Was it displayed somewhere but he didn’t see it? As regulars wouldn’t Helen and Jeannie have seen it and noticed a similarity?

[New Waterloo]

Another point to consider is the risk that he would have taken in going to the Barrowland when he met Helen Puttock considering that the photo fit was displayed after the murder of Jemima MacDonald. Had he not been there after the MacDonald murder (August 17th) until the night that he’d met Helen Puttock (October 30th) so that he wasn’t aware that the photo fit was on display? Was it displayed somewhere but he didn’t see it? As regulars wouldn’t Helen and Jeannie have seen it and noticed a similarity?

I agree its a risk but I am not sure whether there is too much emphasis on the photofits and artists impressions. Say for example that McInnes did not resemble (too closely) the photofit displayed in the Barrowland after the MacDonald murder.

In some respects this would be a green light for McInnes (or anybody else who did not resemble the image) to wander at will and keep attending the Barrowland. Its almost as though the murderer has to fit the image or he is discounted from the enquiry. Maybe the images are clouding the enquiry too much. In other words were the investigators saying that a suspect has to fit the image rather than the other way round.

There seems a lot of faith being given to the images and not sufficient attention to speaking to witnesses

Getting myself confused but I think you all see what I mean.

NW

[OneRound]

With regard to why a car full of senior detectives dashed out to see John McInnes in darkest Lanarkshire, I confess that I simply don't have a clue.

...

...

Hi Barn and all,

Before having a speculative stab as to why, could I please ask whether these four senior detectives were accompanied by lower ranked officers and, if so, in what sort of numbers.

Thanks,
OneRound

[New Waterloo]

Hi Barn and all,

Before having a speculative stab as to why, could I please ask whether these four senior detectives were accompanied by lower ranked officers and, if so, in what sort of numbers.

Thanks,
OneRound

Hello OneRound. Excellent question. I have some knowledge of policing methods in the UK. There could be a variety of reasons. I dont see any reason they would go mob handed because of a fear of weapons or violence. Its probably for practical reasons. If an arrest was made in such a serious matter an immediate search would need to be carried out at a persons dwelling and possibly other locations related to the offenders address. Maybe a search of any out buildings or even relatives houses. Securing scenes before evidence is removed by anyone. All in an effort to find any evidence such as victims clothing. Suspects clothing would need to be seized and all documented. Any press interest contained. So quite a bit really. If the station used is lightly manned this would be a factor.

Even if the suspect was taken away to a larger station the local evidence gathering would still be required hence the lower rank numbers (maybe) could be required. To do the donkey work so to speak.

ID parades can also drain resources a bit as officers would need to find several look a like stooges to stand in the ID parade.

The big question is why so many senior officers. Very unusual perhaps a Superintendent and Insp I would have thought.
It seems that they really thought they were onto something. Just dont understand why McInnes was ruled out so fast.

You raise a very thought provoking question

NW

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Barn and all,

Before having a speculative stab as to why, could I please ask whether these four senior detectives were accompanied by lower ranked officers and, if so, in what sort of numbers.

Thanks,
OneRound

Hi OneRound,

Its good to see you making an appearance

NW has already replied to your post but I’ll just add that as far as I can recall it was never actually stated who, if any, accompanied the four senior officers to Stonehouse (others might recall something being mentioned somewhere that I’ve missed) but I’d say that it would be as close to a certainty as possible that they would have had less senior officers with them. I can’t imagine a detective superintendent been keen on subduing a cornered serial killer intent on going down in a blaze of violent glory. Property searches, searches for the killer at other locations if he wasn’t at Sandy’s house (which he wasn’t) etc.

[cobalt]

Any press interest contained.

I can't see how four high ranking Glasgow City Police officers descending on Hamilton police station could do anything but fuel speculation locally. The police bush telegraph would have alerted local news reporters within a couple of hours and they would have a suspect's name and address pretty smartish. Photographers would be at the ready to snap shots of police entering the McInnes household and poking around in the back garden.

So I lean to the opposite view. The Glasgow contingent wanted to be photographed leaving Hamilton Police Station with a suspect who had his head covered by a raincoat. Otherwise they could have arranged for the suspect to be brought to Partick Marine and sent out lower ranking officers to oversee the work that NW described.

[New Waterloo]

I cannot see why a decision about arresting and formally interviewing McInnes (at significant length) would not have taken place if he was a suspect. It just beggars belief to rule him out so quickly. They would have known that if they released him without thoroughly questioning him and carrying out searches etc would allow him on his release to hide or destroy any evidence of his crimes, potentially losing vital evidence. Although 1969 the police would have fully understood this massive risk.

After interview/s alibis would have to be thoroughly checked through speaking to those providing them.

The only way I think this could have happened was if any alibi or other factor was so significant that it could not have possibly been him. For example he was in custody at the time of the murders or under a surgeons knife in hospital or had a leg in plaster at the time of the murder, something like that.

Maybe they were confidant of the crossed teeth and McInnes didn't have those but truthfully I don't think that would have been enough to let him go.

If McInnes was the murderer all hope of discovering some physical evidence while they held him in custody (some victims clothing or purse or bus ticket in a pocket) would be severely diminished.

NW

[Darryl Kenyon]

As anyone read this book - BIBLE JOHN ON TRIAL: myth exposed, killers named. And if so, any thoughts ? I was wondering if to purchase it, but it is only 120 pages long, with the premise being there never was a single killer, but three separate ones.

On books on the case in general which one do would be recommended for the best overview on the case ?
I notice there doesn't seem to be many available.

Regards Darryl

[Herlock Sholmes]

As anyone read this book - BIBLE JOHN ON TRIAL: myth exposed, killers named. And if so, any thoughts ? I was wondering if to purchase it, but it is only 120 pages long, with the premise being there never was a single killer, but three separate ones.

On books on the case in general which one do would be recommended for the best overview on the case ?
I notice there doesn't seem to be many available.

Regards Darryl

I wouldn’t bother Darryl. It’s not up to much. He believes that Pat Docker was killed by Angus Sinclair and Jemima MacDonald and Helen Puttock were killed by Peter Tobin. To be honest the best overview book is possibly Garcia’s We All Go Into The Dark but you can look around online and get a pretty decent overview. Samson and Crow is ok too. Stoddart is the one I don’t have but when one comes up for sale it’s £80 if you’re lucky. Usually over £100. Barn has it. I don’t have the Harrison book either but I’m not paying £60+ for a book written by a proven liar. Come to think of it I don’t have Power In The Blood by Donald Simpson either but I’ve never managed to see a copy for sale.

I used to have a few in my bookmarks but I can only see one now.

http://oldglasgowmurders.blogspot.com/2016/02/bible-john-murders-part-1.html

Then there’s the podcast of course.

[barnflatwyngarde]

As anyone read this book - BIBLE JOHN ON TRIAL: myth exposed, killers named. And if so, any thoughts ? I was wondering if to purchase it, but it is only 120 pages long, with the premise being there never was a single killer, but three separate ones.

On books on the case in general which one do would be recommended for the best overview on the case ?
I notice there doesn't seem to be many available.

Regards Darryl

Hi Darryl,
I can't really disagree with anything Herlock has said.

Avoid Harrison's book, you just can't accept anything he says.
Bavin-Mizzi's book is a detailed examination of the case against John Templeton, but doesn't really go into great forensic detail of the murders themselves.

Audrey Gillan's podcast is an excellent piece of work, and includes lots of treasure.

I posted on the general thread "Bible John" my thoughts on Charles Stoddart's book "Bible John: Search for a Sadist" is good.
I attach my thoughts on the book below.
I hope this helps.

Stoddart carried out lots of interviews with Joe Beattie, which he recorded.
It seems to be unavailable on Amazon, but you might get lucky on Ebay or similar sites.


The following are my notes/impressions of Charles Stoddart's book "Bible John: Search For a Sadist", published in 1980.
This is the rarest of all the books on the Bible John murders, so when I managed to get my hands on a copy, I hoped that maybe the book would provide fresh information and insights on this fascinating and frustrating case. I wasn't disappointed, but you may disagree.
I will resist the temptation to repeat already widely known facts about the case.

The book has ten chapters and a preface, the information below follows the order in the book, so some related elements may appear in several different chapters.
I will split up the info over two posts.
Part two will appear tomorrow.

1. Preface and Introduction
The author clearly has the utmost respect for Joe Beattie, and the book is dedicated to Beattie.
Stoddart tells of many meetings with Beattie as they both scoured the pile of press clippings relating to the case, presumably compiled by Beattie.
I think that it is reasonable to assume that many of the unique details of the case in the book came directly from Beattie himself.
Beattie is convinced that the killer went out with the intention of killing and that these were not opportunistic killings.
On page 25 we learn that in relation to the 3 murders "Joe is reluctant to link the three."
We are not told how he came to this conclusion.
Stoddart concedes that, as has been mentioned in this thread, that "there is very little (evidence) on the previous killing of Jemima MacDonald and almost nothing at all on the killing of Patricia Docker".
We are entitled to ask why!
For Joe Beattie to acknowledge this fact seems very strange.

2. The Death of Patricia Docker
The first officers on the scene of the murder at 8.10am were Det Sgt Andrew Johnston and DC Norman McDonald.
A Murder Squad was quickly set up under the command of Det Supt Elphinstone Dalglish.
The Police Surgeon James Imrie attended and examined the body in situ, and found ligature marks on the neck which suggested manual strangulation. The body also had marks consistent with being punched or kicked.
The post mortem confirmed that Patricia had been menstruating and that "there was no clear evidence of sexual assault."
There were no signs of Patricia's handbag or clothes.
Two cars were seen in the vicinity of the murder, a Morris 1000 Traveller and a white Ford Consul 375.
Both drivers were traced and eliminated from the enquiry.


3. Jemima McDonald (sic) : Second Victim?
Jemima's body was discovered by her sister Margaret in a derelict building, 23 McKeith Street.
I posted a photo of the interior of the building on this thread. It shows just how shabby and shocking the murder site was.
Det Supt Tom Goodall took charge of the investigation.
Jemima had been strangled with her tights, and her handbag was missing.
Jemima was seen by "a boy" who said that he saw Jemima with a fair haired man in a pub, and a "girl" who saw the same couple sitting on a settee in the Barrowland.
The Police closed their investigation at the Barrowland into Jemima's murder toward the end of October 1969. A mere two months after the murder.

4. Helen Puttock Meets Bible John
Helen and her sister Jeannie met two friends, Marion Cadder and Jean O'Donnell at the Trader's Tavern at 9.00pm and left for the Barrowland Ballroom at 1.00pm.
The Trader's Tavern is 130 yards from the Barrowland.

5. Escort to Murder
Jeannie said that Bible John was "very nice, polite and well spoken."
Bible John stood up and pulled out a chair for Helen when she approached the table.
Bible John told Jeannie that his surname was "Templeton, Sempleson or Emerson."
At the taxi rank Jeannie asked Helen where Bible John lived, Helen waved her hand, but in no particular direction.
This may indicate that he came from the other side of the city, this would appear to rule out the East End, where the Barrowland was, but could suggest the Southside or the West End.
Bible John showed a knowledge of the bus fares for the north of the city, and appeared to know some pubs in Yoker. Yoker is 3.5 miles from Byres Road.
No mention is made of the Dishevelled man seen getting on a bus and taking his bus fare from a red purse.

6. The Murder Hunt
The Senior Officers attending the murder scene were Joe Beattie, Elphinstone Dalglish and Detective Seargeant James Bunce.
Joe Beattie assumed control of the investigation.
There were signs of a struggle at the bottom of the embankment.
The Grass in the backcourt was long so Joe Beattie had it cut. Would this have possibly destroyed any evidence that was there?
Joe Beattie took George Puttock into the backcourt to identify the body.
This contradicts other accounts.
George Puttock was eliminated as a suspect on the first day of the enquiry.
Surely this is is very early to eliminate a suspect.
The Procurator Fiscal personally turned up at the murder scene. Was this usual?
Joe Beattie interviewed Jeannie Langford personally. There is no evidence that any otrher police officer was present at this interview.
On page 73 we read "Early enquiries produced a suspect immediately; he fitted the description given by Jeannie, he had been at the Barrowland, he had been at the Barrowland on the Thursday, he was married but was known to frequent the dancing. Someone told the police of his identity and that he was believed to live in Stonehouse. On the Sunday preparations were made for an identification parade to be held at 11.00am, but it didn't take place until 5.00pm; the suspect had moved from Stonehouse and the police chased around Lanarkshire all day until he was finally traced at Newarthill, near Airdrie. But when he was paraded Jeannie failed to identify anyone on the parade."

Chapter 7: Description of a Killer
Over 450 barbers were visited by police to see if anyone recognised the description of the killers hair, which is described as short, neat sandy/fair hair.
The lack of positive results from the barbers led Police to consider the possibility that the killer wore a hairpiece.
With regards to the killer's teeth, on page 85 we are told that "Obviously to check all dental records in Scotland would be out of the question."
We are entitled to ask why this was out of the question when hunting a serial killer.
Police did check the records of all dentists in Glasgow, but not dentists in the outlying areas of Glasgow, like Lanarkshire.
Joe Beattie had a plaster cast of the killers teeth made, and circulated to every dentist in Britain.
The killers suit appeared to be of a good quality, noticably better than the suits worn by most of the men who attended the Barrowland.
Jeannie was shown a series of military and regimental ties, to see if any matched the one worn by the killer, but with no luck.
We are told that Jeannie attended over 300 identification parades.

Chapter 8: Croiset the Clairvoyant
This chapter is particularly interesting as we find out just how much credence Joe Beattie, and indeed Stoddart gave to the musings of the Dutch clairvoyant Gerard Croiset. Croiset first entered the case when he was approached by Arnott McWhinnie of the Daily Record.

On page 96 Stoddart describes Croiset as "a truly incredible Dutchman."
It becomes clear as we go on that here Stoddart is mirroring the views of Joe Beattie himself.
On page 103 we are told that Croiset "Without prompting he drew pictures from his mind of the area where he thought Bible John might be found. Croiset thought the killer was still in Glasgow and when shown a map, indicated an area in the south west part of the city in the general direction of Govan".
On the same page we are told that "Without any prior knowledge he was able to describe Bible John's personality traits and personal details: his authoritarian capacity and similar characteristics".

One of the main features of the case is the belief of Joe Beattie that the killer lived south of the river.
The only reason that Beattie thought that the killer lived south of the river was based on the statements of Croiset..
Stoddart then goes on to say in regard to the killer living south of the river "that the fact that police did not find him there is no fault of Croiset's." (page 106)
Again on page 106 we are told that "Croiset's reputation acquired over twenty five years of assistance to the police makes his findings deserve respect".
On the same page we are told that Beattie's use of Croiset was "an innovation".

It seems astonishing that Beattie allowed the whole investigation in the hunt for a serial killer to be seriously influenced, and perhaps driven by the views of a "clairvoyant", and may reflect just how desperate Joe Beattie was.
Or it may indicate incompetence of a high degree.

Chapter 9: The Role of the Press
Joe Beattie and his team fed information regularly to the press, this was done on an official basis, not as informal leaks.
DCI George Haigh was the cooirdinator of all telephone enquiries, tip-offs, sightings and snippets of information.
By September 1970 the police had received in excess of 3,500 letters and phone calls.
Fifty pieces of information came from abroad, most of them from Germany.
This was "probably due" to the fact that Helen's husband George had been based in Germany with the army. (pg 113)
It is not known how "hard" these pieces of information relating to George Puttock were.

Joe Beattie asked Dr Robert Brittain, a Forensic Psychiatrist at the Douglas Inch Clinic in Glasgow, to compile a "word description" of the kind of man the police were looking for. Doctor Brittain had diagnosed other psychopathic killers.

Brittain's article "The Sadistic Murderer" was published in 1970 in "Medicine, Science and the Law, Volume 10 (4):10 Oct 1, 1970.

Joe Beattie said of Dr Brittain's report "We have never wanted to put the public into a panic, but we cannot exclude the possibility that this man may strike again. The psychiatrist's report underlines this. (pg 118)

Chapter 10: Where is Bible John?
Joe Beattie says that he is convinced that he never came face to face with Bible John. (pg 120)
Beattie emphaasises the fact that Jeannie spent over two hours in the company of the killer.
Beattie is of the opinion that the police missed the killer in the first two weeks of the investigation.
Here Beattie is presumably referring to the first two weeks of the Helen Puttock murder.
Joe Beattie thought that Bible John was intelligent and unmarried, but gave no clue as to his reasoning for these opinions. (pg122-123)

On page 137 Stoddart writes "Around the time when the enquiry was in full swing, police found a few suicide notes with the bodies of persons whose names were already known to them. One such story appeared in The Sunday Post of September 9, 1979, concerning a Lanarkshire man who committed suicide leaving a cryptic note which some police linked with the murders of ten years before". (pg 137-138)

John McInnes committed suicide in April 1980.

Stoddart's book was published in 1980 and runs to 138 pages, so this snippet of information regarding the suicide note of a "Lanarkshire man" literally appears on the last two pages of the book. Was this Beattie's way of ensuring that something relating the suicide of a Lanarkshire man was put in the public domain, albeit as a last minute entry in the book shortly after Beattie found out about John McInnes's suicide?

Of all the books I have read on Bible John, Stoddart's is the one which gives the most, even if most of what it gives leads to a lot of other questions which intrigue and frustrate in equal measure.
I have resisted the temptation to make too many comments on the book, and I hope that what I have published across these two posts will prove of interest to people and lead to discussion on these boards.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Darryl,
I can't really disagree with anything Herlock has said.

Avoid Harrison's book, you just can't accept anything he says.
Bavin-Mizzi's book is a detailed examination of the case against John Templeton, but doesn't really go into great forensic detail of the murders themselves.

Audrey Gillan's podcast is an excellent piece of work, and includes lots of treasure.

I posted on the general thread "Bible John" my thoughts on Charles Stoddart's book "Bible John: Search for a Sadist" is good.
I attach my thoughts on the book below.
I hope this helps.

Stoddart carried out lots of interviews with Joe Beattie, which he recorded.
It seems to be unavailable on Amazon, but you might get lucky on Ebay or similar sites.


The following are my notes/impressions of Charles Stoddart's book "Bible John: Search For a Sadist", published in 1980.
This is the rarest of all the books on the Bible John murders, so when I managed to get my hands on a copy, I hoped that maybe the book would provide fresh information and insights on this fascinating and frustrating case. I wasn't disappointed, but you may disagree.
I will resist the temptation to repeat already widely known facts about the case.

The book has ten chapters and a preface, the information below follows the order in the book, so some related elements may appear in several different chapters.
I will split up the info over two posts.
Part two will appear tomorrow.

1. Preface and Introduction
The author clearly has the utmost respect for Joe Beattie, and the book is dedicated to Beattie.
Stoddart tells of many meetings with Beattie as they both scoured the pile of press clippings relating to the case, presumably compiled by Beattie.
I think that it is reasonable to assume that many of the unique details of the case in the book came directly from Beattie himself.
Beattie is convinced that the killer went out with the intention of killing and that these were not opportunistic killings.
On page 25 we learn that in relation to the 3 murders "Joe is reluctant to link the three."
We are not told how he came to this conclusion.
Stoddart concedes that, as has been mentioned in this thread, that "there is very little (evidence) on the previous killing of Jemima MacDonald and almost nothing at all on the killing of Patricia Docker".
We are entitled to ask why!
For Joe Beattie to acknowledge this fact seems very strange.

2. The Death of Patricia Docker
The first officers on the scene of the murder at 8.10am were Det Sgt Andrew Johnston and DC Norman McDonald.
A Murder Squad was quickly set up under the command of Det Supt Elphinstone Dalglish.
The Police Surgeon James Imrie attended and examined the body in situ, and found ligature marks on the neck which suggested manual strangulation. The body also had marks consistent with being punched or kicked.
The post mortem confirmed that Patricia had been menstruating and that "there was no clear evidence of sexual assault."
There were no signs of Patricia's handbag or clothes.
Two cars were seen in the vicinity of the murder, a Morris 1000 Traveller and a white Ford Consul 375.
Both drivers were traced and eliminated from the enquiry.


3. Jemima McDonald (sic) : Second Victim?
Jemima's body was discovered by her sister Margaret in a derelict building, 23 McKeith Street.
I posted a photo of the interior of the building on this thread. It shows just how shabby and shocking the murder site was.
Det Supt Tom Goodall took charge of the investigation.
Jemima had been strangled with her tights, and her handbag was missing.
Jemima was seen by "a boy" who said that he saw Jemima with a fair haired man in a pub, and a "girl" who saw the same couple sitting on a settee in the Barrowland.
The Police closed their investigation at the Barrowland into Jemima's murder toward the end of October 1969. A mere two months after the murder.

4. Helen Puttock Meets Bible John
Helen and her sister Jeannie met two friends, Marion Cadder and Jean O'Donnell at the Trader's Tavern at 9.00pm and left for the Barrowland Ballroom at 1.00pm.
The Trader's Tavern is 130 yards from the Barrowland.

5. Escort to Murder
Jeannie said that Bible John was "very nice, polite and well spoken."
Bible John stood up and pulled out a chair for Helen when she approached the table.
Bible John told Jeannie that his surname was "Templeton, Sempleson or Emerson."
At the taxi rank Jeannie asked Helen where Bible John lived, Helen waved her hand, but in no particular direction.
This may indicate that he came from the other side of the city, this would appear to rule out the East End, where the Barrowland was, but could suggest the Southside or the West End.
Bible John showed a knowledge of the bus fares for the north of the city, and appeared to know some pubs in Yoker. Yoker is 3.5 miles from Byres Road.
No mention is made of the Dishevelled man seen getting on a bus and taking his bus fare from a red purse.

6. The Murder Hunt
The Senior Officers attending the murder scene were Joe Beattie, Elphinstone Dalglish and Detective Seargeant James Bunce.
Joe Beattie assumed control of the investigation.
There were signs of a struggle at the bottom of the embankment.
The Grass in the backcourt was long so Joe Beattie had it cut. Would this have possibly destroyed any evidence that was there?
Joe Beattie took George Puttock into the backcourt to identify the body.
This contradicts other accounts.
George Puttock was eliminated as a suspect on the first day of the enquiry.
Surely this is is very early to eliminate a suspect.
The Procurator Fiscal personally turned up at the murder scene. Was this usual?
Joe Beattie interviewed Jeannie Langford personally. There is no evidence that any otrher police officer was present at this interview.
On page 73 we read "Early enquiries produced a suspect immediately; he fitted the description given by Jeannie, he had been at the Barrowland, he had been at the Barrowland on the Thursday, he was married but was known to frequent the dancing. Someone told the police of his identity and that he was believed to live in Stonehouse. On the Sunday preparations were made for an identification parade to be held at 11.00am, but it didn't take place until 5.00pm; the suspect had moved from Stonehouse and the police chased around Lanarkshire all day until he was finally traced at Newarthill, near Airdrie. But when he was paraded Jeannie failed to identify anyone on the parade."

Chapter 7: Description of a Killer
Over 450 barbers were visited by police to see if anyone recognised the description of the killers hair, which is described as short, neat sandy/fair hair.
The lack of positive results from the barbers led Police to consider the possibility that the killer wore a hairpiece.
With regards to the killer's teeth, on page 85 we are told that "Obviously to check all dental records in Scotland would be out of the question."
We are entitled to ask why this was out of the question when hunting a serial killer.
Police did check the records of all dentists in Glasgow, but not dentists in the outlying areas of Glasgow, like Lanarkshire.
Joe Beattie had a plaster cast of the killers teeth made, and circulated to every dentist in Britain.
The killers suit appeared to be of a good quality, noticably better than the suits worn by most of the men who attended the Barrowland.
Jeannie was shown a series of military and regimental ties, to see if any matched the one worn by the killer, but with no luck.
We are told that Jeannie attended over 300 identification parades.

Chapter 8: Croiset the Clairvoyant
This chapter is particularly interesting as we find out just how much credence Joe Beattie, and indeed Stoddart gave to the musings of the Dutch clairvoyant Gerard Croiset. Croiset first entered the case when he was approached by Arnott McWhinnie of the Daily Record.

On page 96 Stoddart describes Croiset as "a truly incredible Dutchman."
It becomes clear as we go on that here Stoddart is mirroring the views of Joe Beattie himself.
On page 103 we are told that Croiset "Without prompting he drew pictures from his mind of the area where he thought Bible John might be found. Croiset thought the killer was still in Glasgow and when shown a map, indicated an area in the south west part of the city in the general direction of Govan".
On the same page we are told that "Without any prior knowledge he was able to describe Bible John's personality traits and personal details: his authoritarian capacity and similar characteristics".

One of the main features of the case is the belief of Joe Beattie that the killer lived south of the river.
The only reason that Beattie thought that the killer lived south of the river was based on the statements of Croiset..
Stoddart then goes on to say in regard to the killer living south of the river "that the fact that police did not find him there is no fault of Croiset's." (page 106)
Again on page 106 we are told that "Croiset's reputation acquired over twenty five years of assistance to the police makes his findings deserve respect".
On the same page we are told that Beattie's use of Croiset was "an innovation".

It seems astonishing that Beattie allowed the whole investigation in the hunt for a serial killer to be seriously influenced, and perhaps driven by the views of a "clairvoyant", and may reflect just how desperate Joe Beattie was.
Or it may indicate incompetence of a high degree.

Chapter 9: The Role of the Press
Joe Beattie and his team fed information regularly to the press, this was done on an official basis, not as informal leaks.
DCI George Haigh was the cooirdinator of all telephone enquiries, tip-offs, sightings and snippets of information.
By September 1970 the police had received in excess of 3,500 letters and phone calls.
Fifty pieces of information came from abroad, most of them from Germany.
This was "probably due" to the fact that Helen's husband George had been based in Germany with the army. (pg 113)
It is not known how "hard" these pieces of information relating to George Puttock were.

Joe Beattie asked Dr Robert Brittain, a Forensic Psychiatrist at the Douglas Inch Clinic in Glasgow, to compile a "word description" of the kind of man the police were looking for. Doctor Brittain had diagnosed other psychopathic killers.

Brittain's article "The Sadistic Murderer" was published in 1970 in "Medicine, Science and the Law, Volume 10 (4):10 Oct 1, 1970.

Joe Beattie said of Dr Brittain's report "We have never wanted to put the public into a panic, but we cannot exclude the possibility that this man may strike again. The psychiatrist's report underlines this. (pg 118)

Chapter 10: Where is Bible John?
Joe Beattie says that he is convinced that he never came face to face with Bible John. (pg 120)
Beattie emphaasises the fact that Jeannie spent over two hours in the company of the killer.
Beattie is of the opinion that the police missed the killer in the first two weeks of the investigation.
Here Beattie is presumably referring to the first two weeks of the Helen Puttock murder.
Joe Beattie thought that Bible John was intelligent and unmarried, but gave no clue as to his reasoning for these opinions. (pg122-123)

On page 137 Stoddart writes "Around the time when the enquiry was in full swing, police found a few suicide notes with the bodies of persons whose names were already known to them. One such story appeared in The Sunday Post of September 9, 1979, concerning a Lanarkshire man who committed suicide leaving a cryptic note which some police linked with the murders of ten years before". (pg 137-138)

John McInnes committed suicide in April 1980.

Stoddart's book was published in 1980 and runs to 138 pages, so this snippet of information regarding the suicide note of a "Lanarkshire man" literally appears on the last two pages of the book. Was this Beattie's way of ensuring that something relating the suicide of a Lanarkshire man was put in the public domain, albeit as a last minute entry in the book shortly after Beattie found out about John McInnes's suicide?

Of all the books I have read on Bible John, Stoddart's is the one which gives the most, even if most of what it gives leads to a lot of other questions which intrigue and frustrate in equal measure.
I have resisted the temptation to make too many comments on the book, and I hope that what I have published across these two posts will prove of interest to people and lead to discussion on these boards.

About time

I saw Stoddart’s name a couple of days ago and thought to myself “didn’t Barn say that he was going to post his notes on the book?”

I look forward to having a read through tomorrow Barn, along with part two.

By buying the expensive Stoddart book you’ve done two things. 1) You’ve helped us all by giving us info from this important source, and 2) by buying this expensive book you’ve added a measure of doubt to the theory that copper wire was invented by two Scotsman fighting over a penny.

[barnflatwyngarde]

About time

I saw Stoddart’s name a couple of days ago and thought to myself “didn’t Barn say that he was going to post his notes on the book?”

I look forward to having a read through tomorrow Barn, along with part two.

By buying the expensive Stoddart book you’ve done two things. 1) You’ve helped us all by giving us info from this important source, and 2) by buying this expensive book you’ve added a measure of doubt to the theory that copper wire was invented by two Scotsman fighting over a penny.

Hi Herlock, I posted this information in two posts on the general Bible John thread.
Posts number 532 and 543.

I think that I remember you thanking me for posting,.

Anyway, the stuff in Stoddart's book is very interesting, as most of it, if not all of it, came from Joe Beattie.

What I don't know is whether the Beattie tapes that Audrey Gillan has and posted on her podcast are the same tapes that Stoddart quotes from in his book.

If they are the same tapes, it possibly explains why Stoddart did not mention Beattie's casual misogynistic comments on the three victims, given that Stoddart praises Beattie highly, and I think he even dedicated the book to him.

[cobalt]

In 1981 a Dutch investigative journalist wrote an article in which he cast doubt on Gerard Croiset having any ESP gifts whatsoever. By having access to original police files the journalist discovered that Croiset's later written accounts of his 'successes' were highly questionable. For a Dutch psychic to claim that a missing child, who been last seen playing near a canal, would turn up in water near a bridge did not convince this skeptic. Here is a quote from the article:

Croiset, a skilled hypnotist, was an expert muscle reader and a master of suggestive questioning. He was therefore well equipped for wresting shreds of information from unwitting clients and feeding these back as “telepathic” impressions.
It is possible that he occasionally resorted to cruder methods, such as using spies. In the pro-Croiset literature we find surprisingly little mention of the psychic’s “assistants” and “secretaries,” such as Dick West. Zorab (personal communication) has evidence that Croiset sometimes employed confederates in his experiments. Apparently the clairvoyant’s professional ethics were not such as to forbid a little trickery now and then.

Even more important, Croiset knew how to make friends and influence people. He maintained very cordial relations with a number of journalists and law officers. (Some policemen were patients of “Dr.” Croiset.) I do not need to point out the risks of such familiarity. Croiset was an engaging man who disarmed visitors with a convincing display of sincerity and simplicity. He was not the sort of person in whose company one felt the need to be on guard.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock, I posted this information in two posts on the general Bible John thread.
Posts number 532 and 543.

I think that I remember you thanking me for posting,.

Anyway, the stuff in Stoddart's book is very interesting, as most of it, if not all of it, came from Joe Beattie.

What I don't know is whether the Beattie tapes that Audrey Gillan has and posted on her podcast are the same tapes that Stoddart quotes from in his book.

If they are the same tapes, it possibly explains why Stoddart did not mention Beattie's casual misogynistic comments on the three victims, given that Stoddart praises Beattie highly, and I think he even dedicated the book to him.

You’ve knocked me back a little Barn. I can’t for the life of me think why I didn’t follow up on your original post on the other thread? I must have had a quick look when you posted it intending to go back and read through properly but then got distracted and forgot about it. I’ll blame the diary.