Bible John: A New Suspect by Jill Bavin-Mizzi

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock, from 4.10 the conversation is as follows:

"I used to go to the Barrowland at the same time, I'm 76 tomorrow".
"Are you? Happy birthday".
"You used to have your street gangs, you know, you used to have the Calton Tongs down there, the Bridgeton Derry, the San Toi, all the street gangs, they knew each other and all that."
"Street gangs went up the Barrowland?"
"Was it as rough as they say?".
"Well it was no mean city, you know. They used to carry razor blades and razors. That was thirty year ago you know"

I hope this helps.
If you have any other problems translating working class Glaswegian, just let me know.

Thanks a lot Barn. I’m usually ok with the accents but there are always some parts which beat me and this was certainly one. Especially the gang names.

[barnflatwyngarde]

Ok Barn I have another for you. It’s from episode 3 Jemima MacDonald. It happens at around 4.18 and two old guys are talking about the gangs that frequented the the Barrowland. I just can’t make out what they’re saying.

Hi Herlock, from 4.10 the conversation is as follows:

"I used to go to the Barrowland at the same time, I'm 76 tomorrow".
"Are you? Happy birthday".
"You used to have your street gangs, you know, you used to have the Calton Tongs down there, the Bridgeton Derry, the San Toi, all the street gangs, they knew each other and all that."
"Street gangs went up the Barrowland?"
"Was it as rough as they say?".
"Well it was no mean city, you know. They used to carry razor blades and razors. That was thirty year ago you know"

I hope this helps.
If you have any other problems translating working class Glaswegian, just let me know.

[New Waterloo]

I notice from the much published cictim photo that Jemima MacDonald had what appeas to be a quite ‘heavy’ jaw. The woman in the photograph seems very similar to me. There is a strong likeness because of the jaw I believe. So maybe it could be her. The glasses on the man trouble me. I font think has been any mention of glasses has there. I don't buy the glasses thing as a disguise. He seems fairly well built to me. Just observations
NW

[New Waterloo]

The good news is that the photo is pretty clear so thats a real help but I am inclined to think that the photo is earlier than 1969 as Cobalt suggests. I was born 1960 and my sister was some 9 years older than me so about 18 in 1969. I recall her going out and seem to think by 1969 fashion was getting a bit more casual and hippy. Patterns and flowery but we lived more towards London and maybe still a bit more old fashioned in Scotland. I am possibly talking load of rubbish so apologies if not correct.

it is such a good photo find though. Really good.
NW

[New Waterloo]

Have now got it. Excellent
NW

[New Waterloo]

Hi Herlock. For some reason link not working for me. Are others finding this. probably me.
NW

[cobalt]

Judging by the men's hairstyles (no sideburns and a fair few quiffs) the photo looks like it's from around 1964. I don't think there would have been many saxophonists still playing solo at the Barrowland in 1969. Maybe someone can date it better by examining the women's hairstyles and dresses.

[Herlock Sholmes]

As I was going through the bonus episode about Jemima MacDonald I got to the part where Audrey Gillan spoke to Jemima’s son Alan when he came to her flat. He bought his granddaughter Samantha with him. Samantha had been researching the case and showed Audrey a newspaper photo of the Barrowland during a packed night with the crowd watching a saxophonist (with an old fashioned microphone in front of him) She felt that Jemima was in the picture (Audrey said that the woman that she pointed to was 5 or 6 rows back) Audrey doesn’t really think it is her though. She says that next to her is a man that she thinks is Bible John. He’s wearing glasses but Samantha says that anyone can wear glasses as a disguise. I’d always wanted to see that photo so I’ve been looking.

I think that I’ve found the picture and I can see and woman who might resemble Jemima standing next to a man with glasses who does look much like Bible John to me. The couple are about a quarter of the way into the photo from the viewers right.

Nearer the stage but almost directly in front , also wearing glasses, is a man that looks more like the Bible John in the Patterson portrait though. I’m certainly not claiming that it is him though.

https://www.google.com/search?q=barrowland+dancing+band&sca_esv=e530de37feccd403&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&hl=en-GB&udm=2&biw=1024&bih=1242&sxsrf=AE3TifO2o-iapxbxswwVQEgceqp8Xe-iSg%3A1754605513501&ei=ySeVaOKqHs6uhbIP5q2ZyA4&oq=barrowland+dancing+band&gs_lp=EhJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWciF2JhcnJvd2xhbmQgZGFuY2luZyBiYW5kMggQABiiBBiJBTIIEAAYgAQYogQyCBAAGKIEGIkFMggQABiABBiiBDIIEAAYgAQYogRIxkpQ5wtY7UZwAXgAkAEAmAFKoAGAC6oBAjI0uAEDyAEA-AEBmAIYoALiCsICBxAjGCcYyQLCAgYQABgIGB7CAgUQABiABMICBBAAGB6YAwCIBgGSBwIyNKAHh1ayBwIyM7gH3QrCBwYzLjIwLjHIByU&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img#sv=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

[Herlock Sholmes]

Ok Barn I have another for you. It’s from episode 3 Jemima MacDonald. It happens at around 4.18 and two old guys are talking about the gangs that frequented the the Barrowland. I just can’t make out what they’re saying.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock, ah the wonderful and myriad forms of the Glasgow dialect!

1. The Revue Bar in the Barrowland was known as Geordie's Byre.

2. The word is "jivers".

3. What the lady says is "is this the place noo". It makes no sense and is just the strangled rhetoric of an ordinary working class Glasgow woman.

4. "I'd say that 50,000 people that came in here fitted his description".

I hope this helps.

I also attach a link to a site that gives some interesting info on the Barrowland.

https://thelucybrouwer.com/barrowland-ballroom/

Cheers Barn, I’ll make those amendments and hopefully go through episode 2 later today.

[barnflatwyngarde]

I managed to finish listening to episode one tonight. Queries…


1)I didn’t record the time but when AG was talking about the layout of the Barrowland she says…downstairs was Geordies ______ The word sounds like ‘byre.’

2) Around 10.20 AG’s dad is talking. He says- there were some fantastic _________

3) Around 15.5e - Is this the place now ________?

4) Around 16.06 - came in here put it as _______

Hi Herlock, ah the wonderful and myriad forms of the Glasgow dialect!

1. The Revue Bar in the Barrowland was known as Geordie's Byre.

2. The word is "jivers".

3. What the lady says is "is this the place noo". It makes no sense and is just the strangled rhetoric of an ordinary working class Glasgow woman.

4. "I'd say that 50,000 people that came in here fitted his description".

I hope this helps.

I also attach a link to a site that gives some interesting info on the Barrowland.

https://thelucybrouwer.com/barrowland-ballroom/

[Herlock Sholmes]

I managed to finish listening to episode one tonight. Queries…


1)I didn’t record the time but when AG was talking about the layout of the Barrowland she says…downstairs was Geordies ______ The word sounds like ‘byre.’

2) Around 10.20 AG’s dad is talking. He says- there were some fantastic _________

3) Around 15.5e - Is this the place now ________?

4) Around 16.06 - came in here put it as _______

[Herlock Sholmes]

I’ve made a transcript of the Bible John podcast. The problem is that the original is automatically generated and the Scottish accents have caused a bit of havoc. I intend to listen to each episode again with my transcript on screen so I can note the times of any problem parts so that our friendly neighbourhood Scottish accented posters can help with a ‘translation.’ As soon as I’ve gone through it all I can send anyone a pdf of it if they want to PM me their email address. I’ve made a start and I hope to get through the rest of episode one tomorrow with a bit of luck.

My favourite bit of transcript gobbledegook is Alvinist Sondahl-Gleish.

Did you get it?

Elphinstone Dalgleish.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I agree with both of you. I think that I’ve listened to it twice too and maybe a couple of the episodes three times but it’s impossible to remember all. A good and easily accessible transcript would help. You can’t just copy and paste it though. I had to use screenshots which is a hopeless method.

[Ms Diddles]

Hey Ms D, you must be reading my mail.

That's exactly what I'm going to do also.
I think that there's probably more there for us on a second visit.
The bonus episode with Jeannie Langford is probably the most in depth interview she has ever done.
There might be some treasure in there that we missed the first time.

Well, it might take me a while to get round to it as I'd quite like to listen to it in just one or two sittings for the sake of continuity (because of my rubbish memory!), so I really need a weekend without plans or distractions.

I agree there may well be stuff we missed last time, or could there be some stuff in there which is pertinent to Templeton as BJ (either for or against)?

It will be interesting to see.