Another Piece of Evidence Linking John McInnes to the Bible John Murders

[Herlock Sholmes]

No worries Herlock.

I think it might be significant that Scottish Police were unable to find any dentist in Scotland that had removed McInnes's teeth.
The possiblity therefore emerging that he went outwith Scotland to have his teeth extracted.

If he did, it could be another small factor that could be important.

That’s a good point Barn. You’d have thought that, after failing to get anywhere they might have extended their search to England?

[Herlock Sholmes]

I’ve certainly been someone that’s thrown doubt as to whether the ripper would have gone on to kill after being seen by Schwartz (if he was BS man) or after being seen at close hand by Hutchinson (if Aman was the killer) but here we have a guy who spent a considerable part of the evening with Puttock, was seen by her friends (and staff members at the Barrowlands after he made a scene at the cigarette machine) he then gets into a taxi with them so we can add the driver and Castermilk John to the list. He then goes on to kill. Strange behaviour.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I just went onto Amazon to buy the book but stopped myself when I saw that I could only get it for £25!! One was £14 + £11 p+p the other was £25 free p+p. Who’d be stupid enough to pay that much?

It arrives in the next 3 or 4 weeks.

[barnflatwyngarde]

I just went onto Amazon to buy the book but stopped myself when I saw that I could only get it for £25!! One was £14 + £11 p+p the other was £25 free p+p. Who’d be stupid enough to pay that much?

It arrives in the next 3 or 4 weeks.

You are clearly richer than me Herlock.

I have asked my local Library to purchase it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

You are clearly richer than me Herlock.

I have asked my local Library to purchase it.

Nope. Just an idiot Barn.

[Ms Diddles]

Now Templeton is not a common name. Perhaps I am wrong and is a common Glasgow surname. If it is I am a bit stuffed so to speak.

Hi NW!

I have sometimes wondered whether the name Templeton (if indeed it was Templeton!) was made up on the spur of the moment.

This well known Glasgow building is situated a short walk from the Barrowlands and is roughly equidistant between there and the scene of the Mima McDonald murder:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templeton_On_The_Green#:~:text=History,-Templeton%20On%20The&text=The%20building%20was%20d esigned%20and,Templeton's%20patented%20spool%20Axm inster%20carpets.&text=Construction%20began%20in%2 01888.,wind%20which%20blew%20it%20down.

It's quite a famous thing in Glasgow's east end, so could have popped into the killers mind if thinking up a false name.

Edit: The West Brewery situated in the Templeton Business Centre building is highly recommended. Great beer!

[cobalt]

BTW,

NW, you have helped give some energy to this site so don't stop posting. Your contributions have sparked some debate.

McInnes' teeth are an odd detail: I can't believe he went to such great lengths to disguise his dentures. He may not even have known that the police had a dental fix on him (if he was indeed the murderer.) Rather like the story of a relative who had a hole-in -one at golf, you would think that these details could have been tracked down by competent police enquiries.

The issue of alcohol has been raised on this site before and the fact is that no alcohol was at that time sold inside the Barrowland Dance Hall. However patrons often 'tanked up' with Dutch Courage before paying their entry fee and it was not unknown for women to smuggle in spirits inside their handbags which, in these halcyon days, would not be searched. The idea that the women were anything more intoxicated than 'merry' is unlikely, especially after a couple of hours dancing. What we don't know is how much of the sister's details were gleaned inside the dance hall, the taxi journey or maybe second hand from Helen Puttock and maybe 'Castlemilk John.'

What we don't seem to have are the statements from regular dancers who knew Helen Puttock and her sister as fellow regulars. Nor do we have the taxi driver's statements or the 'bouncers.' The bouncers gave very different versions of the man accompanying Helen Puttock, a woman they probably knew by sight. I have often wondered whether the cigarette machine dispute was actually caused by Castlemilk John rather than Bible John.

[New Waterloo]

Ms Diddles may well be onto something. Templetons was as far as I can make out still a carpet factory in the 1960s through at least into the 1970s. Did McInnes work in a furniture store or factory. If a store then perhaps there is a connection between the store and the carpet factory. Basically what I am suggesting is that McInnes would be well aware of the name of the factory, perhaps the furniture store sold their carpets. So this strengthens the idea that he would perhaps have the name ready if asked and it would trip off his tongue easily as he was so familiar with it.

Seems a bit simple but yes Ms Diddles there could be somEthing in this

NW

[Herlock Sholmes]

BTW,

McInnes' teeth are an odd detail: I can't believe he went to such great lengths to disguise his dentures. He may not even have known that the police had a dental fix on him (if he was indeed the murderer.) Rather like the story of a relative who had a hole-in -one at golf, you would think that these details could have been tracked down by competent police enquiries.
.

I just checked the few notes that I made whilst listening to Audrey Gillan’s podcast. She suspects that the primary reason for the exhumation might have been to check McInnes teeth as Jeannie had said that BJ’s were overlapping and Helen Puttock had a bite mark on her wrist. My notes say that McInness got his dentures three years after Helen’s murder but I don’t know how she came to know this.

I have Dr. Marie Cassidy’s book. She did the exhumation on McInness but the section of her book dedicated to it is tiny and she makes no mention of any kind of ID using teeth or of dentures.

I just looked through the other books. In MacGregor’s book he just said that the police couldn’t find out when he’d got dentures and David Wilson doesn’t even mention the dentures; saying only that the bite mark didn’t match.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi NW!

I have sometimes wondered whether the name Templeton (if indeed it was Templeton!) was made up on the spur of the moment.

This well known Glasgow building is situated a short walk from the Barrowlands and is roughly equidistant between there and the scene of the Mima McDonald murder:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Templeton_On_The_Green#:~:text=History,-Templeton%20On%20The&text=The%20building%20was%20d esigned%20and,Templeton's%20patented%20spool%20Axm inster%20carpets.&text=Construction%20began%20in%2 01888.,wind%20which%20blew%20it%20down.

It's quite a famous thing in Glasgow's east end, so could have popped into the killers mind if thinking up a false name.

Edit: The West Brewery situated in the Templeton Business Centre building is highly recommended. Great beer!

I’d certainly say that it’s a possible Ms D but what I don’t get about the new suspect is why would he give his real name? It’s ok to give your name only to a woman that you know is going to be dead in an hour or so but Jeannie Langford/Williams heard it too. Could he have been sure that no one else heard it too? I know that killers aren’t always a Moriarty but this… Unless he didn’t realise that Jeannie had heard him of course, which is a possibility.

[rjpalmer]

At the risk of stating the obvious, The Daily Record article was rather deceptively written.

The headline reads: "New suspect in Bible John murders identified after being linked through DNA."

In reality, it was John McInnes who was potentially linked to one of the murders through DNA.

Templeton's DNA profile is unknown; he is supposedly related to McInnis's family tree, but the exact nature of this relationship is never explained.

[Herlock Sholmes]

At the risk of stating the obvious, The Daily Record article was rather deceptively written.

The headline reads: "New suspect in Bible John murders identified after being linked through DNA."

In reality, it was John McInnes who was potentially linked to one of the murders through DNA.

Templeton's DNA profile is unknown; he is supposedly related to McInnis's family tree, but the exact nature of this relationship is never explained.

Hi Roger,

This could be a bit of a side-step of course. McInnes couldn’t be acquitted on the DNA evidence but that wouldn’t prevent someone looking for a possibly family member suspect. I’m suspicious. The book is due to arrive toward the end of July. I’m curious to find out how the author came to accuse this guy.

[Ms Diddles]

I’d certainly say that it’s a possible Ms D but what I don’t get about the new suspect is why would he give his real name? It’s ok to give your name only to a woman that you know is going to be dead in an hour or so but Jeannie Langford/Williams heard it too. Could he have been sure that no one else heard it too? I know that killers aren’t always a Moriarty but this… Unless he didn’t realise that Jeannie had heard him of course, which is a possibility.

Absolutely, Herlock!

The only way I could see the killer giving his real name in this instance is if:

A) He had nothing to do with the two previous murders.

B) He had no intention whilst in the taxi of murdering Helen Puttock.

C) He was completely insane.

It will be interesting to read the book when it arrives.

Yeah, I was daft enough to fork out for it too!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Absolutely, Herlock!

The only way I could see the killer giving his real name in this instance is if:

A) He had nothing to do with the two previous murders.

B) He had no intention whilst in the taxi of murdering Helen Puttock.

C) He was completely insane.

It will be interesting to read the book when it arrives.

Yeah, I was daft enough to fork out for it too!

Yes it was a bit on the expensive side. As a Scot, Barn’s probably still lying in a darkened room after hearing the price.

[barnflatwyngarde]

Yes it was a bit on the expensive side. As a Scot, Barn’s probably still lying in a darkened room after hearing the price.

I suppose that I asked for that Herlock!

There's a great scene in one of the Goons episodes where Eccles is invited in to a Highland cottage with the owner saying,
"Come away in and warm yourself round this big roaring candle."