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** The Murder of Julia Wallace **

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  • Originally posted by ColdCaseJury View Post

    Except Wallace said that he did not hear the receiver respond: "Operator, I have pushed button A but I have not had my correspondent yet."

    Or am I being too simplistic?
    Hi all, Good to see things rolling again on the Wallace thread.
    couple of things to comment on . I remember the GPO telephone public call boxes well. It has to be understood, that the button A was ‘locked up until the correspondent answered.So even if the caller was in touch with the operator, He wouldn’t be capable of loosing his tuppence unless the bank number answered then hung up immediately.

    Comment


    • On ‘the doors locked against him’, Wallace believing the back door would have been locked and secured for the night , because ‘a,’ that was their protocol, and ‘b’ he reminded his wife to do so when she saw him off at the back entry. I would think after not being able to open the front latch lock, Wallace would have been in great earnest to raise his wife by thumping on the door, and calling loudly through the letter box, even perhaps getting the Johnsons involved to see if they knew anything, even before running all the way round the block to the back door for the first time. Also it can be taken as pretty certain that as well as the old style key lock on the back door , there will have been a slide bolt type lock on the back door,((it would be useful to be able to confirm this from transcripts) .

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ColdCaseJury View Post

        I think we're going over the case far more thoroughly than the police, Herlock. I think the case turned when they believed Wallace made the call - why it was logged was of little interest. For them, Wallace was the caller because the phone box was near to his house. For us, we are trying to infer the caller by the minutiae of what happened on Monday night. And to be fair to the police - it is a coincidence if Parry used it. However, if he saw Wallace - by chance or by plan - it would be the nearest call box for him too.

        Instead of a visual line-up (for Lily Hall), don't you think the police should have done an aural line-up and made Wallace speak on the telephone to the operators? The pronunciation of "cafe" would have been key. This was dangerous for the police, however, because it could have undermined their case. Remember, in 1931, the police's primary objective was to nick someone for the crime. Justice was secondary. They weren't always mutually exclusive, of course, but they would have been keenly interested in evidence that pointed to Wallace's guilt.
        I suppose the problem with suggesting an aural line up would be that if Wallace was the caller then he’d have been disguising his voice. The operators were pretty much certain to have said that he didn’t sound like the caller. The pronunciation of ‘cafe’ is an interesting one though. WWH and I certainly disagreed on this one.

        In case anyone doesn’t know, the caller pronounce the word as ‘Caffay.’ Now, I’m a Midlander and not a Liverpudlian but my father and grandfather (who both spoke with broad Black Country accents, would have pronounced it either ‘caff’ or ‘caffee.’ They would have considered ‘caffay’ the posh way of pronouncing it. I have a feeling that an average Liverpudlian in the 1930’s might have pronounced it like my father and grandfather (Mark is from Liverpool so his input would help) But the pronunciation stood out to the phone operators who were all local girls (I can’t recall exactly but perhaps of around Parry’s age)

        If that was the case who would be more likely to use the pronunciation ‘caffay?’ A local lad and ne’er do well like Parry? Or the Middle aged man and non-local with the sophisticated tastes?
        Regards

        Herlock




        “...A yellow fog swirls past the window-pane
        As night descends upon this fabled street:
        A lonely hansom splashes through the rain,
        The ghostly gas lamps fail at twenty feet.
        Here, though the world explode, these two survive,
        And it is always eighteen ninety-five.”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by caz View Post

          Morning Herlock,

          If Wallace had mentioned to Julia that he was going to meet a Mr Qualtrough, you'd think he'd have said something after the murder along the lines of: "The biggest regret of my life is telling Julia about Qualtrough, because it seems she must - unusually for her - have let him in, recognising the name."

          He could have said the same thing whether he was guilty or not. She was dead, so she couldn't have contradicted him, if he'd said nothing of the sort.

          Love,

          Caz
          X
          It was annoying me that I couldn’t remember if Wallace ever said that he’d mention Qualtrough by name to Julia. He did - at the trial.
          Regards

          Herlock




          “...A yellow fog swirls past the window-pane
          As night descends upon this fabled street:
          A lonely hansom splashes through the rain,
          The ghostly gas lamps fail at twenty feet.
          Here, though the world explode, these two survive,
          And it is always eighteen ninety-five.”

          Comment


          • Hi Caz. If Wallace was quiet on the first tram: He would likely take a while to get his breath back , since he had to make very good time between leaving home and getting to the first stop, firing on only one kidney. Also he would be gathering his thoughts for the next steps of his plan ,I don’t think making an effort to alerting people to his presence at this point was to much of a concern , since he would have known , any allusion to the time , to one or two people on his trek, ( what’s better than a police man and a post office that closes in 2 minutes time at eight o clock) would guide the police to the inevitable conclusion as to the first tram he took.
            I believe that the very fact that there are two or three conclusions one can draw , from every situation in this case lays testament to Wallace’s cunning.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

              I suppose the problem with suggesting an aural line up would be that if Wallace was the caller then he’d have been disguising his voice. The operators were pretty much certain to have said that he didn’t sound like the caller. The pronunciation of ‘cafe’ is an interesting one though. WWH and I certainly disagreed on this one.

              In case anyone doesn’t know, the caller pronounce the word as ‘Caffay.’ Now, I’m a Midlander and not a Liverpudlian but my father and grandfather (who both spoke with broad Black Country accents, would have pronounced it either ‘caff’ or ‘caffee.’ They would have considered ‘caffay’ the posh way of pronouncing it. I have a feeling that an average Liverpudlian in the 1930’s might have pronounced it like my father and grandfather (Mark is from Liverpool so his input would help) But the pronunciation stood out to the phone operators who were all local girls (I can’t recall exactly but perhaps of around Parry’s age)

              If that was the case who would be more likely to use the pronunciation ‘caffay?’ A local lad and ne’er do well like Parry? Or the Middle aged man and non-local with the sophisticated tastes?
              Hi Herlock

              I think an aural line up might have been useful - as well as the caffay pronunciation there was the comment by Gladys Harley:

              I did not recognise the voice on the telephone, but there was something strange about it.
              It's a shame she did not expand on what made the voice sound strange.



              Comment


              • Just catching up on previous comments.:

                I hope all agree that for a stranger calling an establishment such as a chess club , regardless of the reason,
                asking to speak to a member ,and then when being told that person was not available, asking for that persons address.Well apart from the fact that the question would make the club organizer feel awkward. For him to have given out that info obviously would be unethical. So , I think we can be sure that part of the conversation would be committed to memory

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ven View Post
                  I like your thinking etenguy, as Wallace was a chronomaniac, he knew what time he called, the time to make it to the chess club and the "confusion" Beattie may have had with the time of the call... why would Beattie note the EXACT time
                  Wallace wanted to hear Beattie say, ‘I can’t say what time exactly’ because that would be what Beattie would be saying to the Police.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by etenguy View Post

                    Hi Herlock

                    I think an aural line up might have been useful - as well as the caffay pronunciation there was the comment by Gladys Harley:



                    It's a shame she did not expand on what made the voice sound strange.


                    Hi etenguy,

                    Gladys actually said there was nothing strange about the voice.

                    Here's some notes i made from her typed and written statements -

                    Gladys Harley
                    Typed statement - "The man who telephoned had a deep voice and spoke very quickly."
                    Written statement - "I heard the cafe telephone bell ringing in the telephone box and I went to answer it....I am absolutely positive that our line had not been used by anyone for the previous half hour...When I went to the box the operator called out our number Bank 3581, and I said "Yes". There was then a little delay and I called to the operator "So you require this number." She said "Yes, Anfield calling you; hold the line." Then she asked the person at the other end to put the pennies in, and then a voice said "Is that the Central Chess Club?"...I did not recognise the voice on the telephone, but there was nothing strange about it. It seemed the voice of an elderly gentleman. I am not familiar with Mr Wallace's voice."

                    The other part I have highlighted is her claim in hearing the Operator ask the caller to insert the pennies!! So the caller had to pay in the end anyway!

                    Also, she claims that the phone did not ring before this call came through which makes Louisa Alfred's claim that she heard a response on the first call a lie as suggested by ColdCaseJury in Post #103 (CCJ wrote Kelly because I misled him in my post he was responding to.)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ven View Post

                      Hi etenguy,

                      Gladys actually said there was nothing strange about the voice.

                      Here's some notes i made from her typed and written statements -

                      Gladys Harley
                      Typed statement - "The man who telephoned had a deep voice and spoke very quickly."
                      Written statement - "I heard the cafe telephone bell ringing in the telephone box and I went to answer it....I am absolutely positive that our line had not been used by anyone for the previous half hour...When I went to the box the operator called out our number Bank 3581, and I said "Yes". There was then a little delay and I called to the operator "So you require this number." She said "Yes, Anfield calling you; hold the line." Then she asked the person at the other end to put the pennies in, and then a voice said "Is that the Central Chess Club?"...I did not recognise the voice on the telephone, but there was nothing strange about it. It seemed the voice of an elderly gentleman. I am not familiar with Mr Wallace's voice."

                      The other part I have highlighted is her claim in hearing the Operator ask the caller to insert the pennies!! So the caller had to pay in the end anyway!

                      Also, she claims that the phone did not ring before this call came through which makes Louisa Alfred's claim that she heard a response on the first call a lie as suggested by ColdCaseJury in Post #103 (CCJ wrote Kelly because I misled him in my post he was responding to.)
                      Thanks Ven

                      Her handwriting is pretty poor and difficult to read - I read nothing as something. It makes more sense that she said nothing - thanks for correcting.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ColdCaseJury View Post
                        Dagnabit! Debating with you, Caz, is like trying to catch a slippery fish in a barrel of fish oil! Just when I think you might be pushed into a corner, you swim away with ease!
                        Morning CCJ,

                        Thank you kindly!

                        Of course, this point was made by Dorothy Sayer. But an experienced caller (i.e. Wallace) would have surely said, "Operator, I have pushed A by mistake..."
                        I didn't know that, not having read Dorothy Sayer's take on the case. I suppose, if I was being slippery again, I would say that a guilty Wallace, like many men, might not have been good at admitting his mistakes, especially to a woman, which could explain why he put the blame on the operator, by claiming he did what he was supposed to do, but she failed to connect him.

                        Personally, I feel a fault at Anfield 1627 is a non-starter (apart from the broken light bulb). Any fault would be on the line to Bank 3581.
                        Yes, it would make sense if there was an intermittent fault on the line to the chess club, and not with the apparatus in the call box.

                        Love,

                        Caz
                        X
                        "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by moste View Post
                          Hi Caz. If Wallace was quiet on the first tram: He would likely take a while to get his breath back , since he had to make very good time between leaving home and getting to the first stop, firing on only one kidney. Also he would be gathering his thoughts for the next steps of his plan ,I don’t think making an effort to alerting people to his presence at this point was to much of a concern , since he would have known , any allusion to the time , to one or two people on his trek, ( what’s better than a police man and a post office that closes in 2 minutes time at eight o clock) would guide the police to the inevitable conclusion as to the first tram he took.
                          I believe that the very fact that there are two or three conclusions one can draw , from every situation in this case lays testament to Wallace’s cunning.
                          Good points, moste. Ultimately, a guilty Wallace may have banked on his plans working out on the basis of a jury's duty not to convict without proof beyond reasonable doubt. Guilty or innocent, Wallace was always going to be the prime suspect if he didn't have rock solid alibis for the call and the crime. But he didn't need alibis. He just needed to put that element of doubt in the jury's mind, and his known behaviour on both nights could be seen as an attempt to do just that. It failed with the jury, but succeeded at the appeal.

                          If he was innocent, he was extremely unfortunate to come so close to getting his neck stretched.

                          Love,

                          Caz
                          X
                          "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                          Comment


                          • Yes I think it makes more sense to think Wallace had a general plan for reasonable doubt, than an intricate plan with everything carefully thought out - because he didn't.

                            On a lighter note, is it possible Katie Mather locked Qualtrough in a back room and had music blaring out to cover up his banging and shouting to be let out?!!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by NickB View Post
                              Yes I think it makes more sense to think Wallace had a general plan for reasonable doubt, than an intricate plan with everything carefully thought out - because he didn't.

                              On a lighter note, is it possible Katie Mather locked Qualtrough in a back room and had music blaring out to cover up his banging and shouting to be let out?!!
                              Be careful what you say Nick. Somewhere someone might be constructing a conspiracy around this as we speak.
                              Regards

                              Herlock




                              “...A yellow fog swirls past the window-pane
                              As night descends upon this fabled street:
                              A lonely hansom splashes through the rain,
                              The ghostly gas lamps fail at twenty feet.
                              Here, though the world explode, these two survive,
                              And it is always eighteen ninety-five.”

                              Comment


                              • This is the Glasgow Herald report of the murder ...
                                https://news.google.com/newspapers?i...6366%2C2778816

                                Interesting that right from the start certain facets of the case were regarded as salient: that there was nothing to indicate how an assailant had entered the house, the amount missing was a very trivial one for a robbery, and no unusual noise was heard coming from the house.

                                This is their report when Wallace was arrested ...

                                https://news.google.com/newspapers?i...3161%2C4424456

                                Comment

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