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** The Murder of Julia Wallace **

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  • Originally posted by Ven View Post
    Thanks CCJ,

    Hmmm, I think this clouds it even more, doesn't it. And sorry, I edited my previous post as it was Louisa Alfreds that took the first call.
    In regards to the lines being ok on the first call, there is also the possibility that it did drop out after he pushed A... besides my Iphone dropping out even today, i remember crossed or broken lines back in the seventies... the second failed call would support this.
    The thot plickens!
    It does... and a line problem might have developed however the line was disconnected... not just a push of A. I think the nub of the issue is that we cannot tell how the first call was ended but for experienced telephone user using a kiosk he had used before, Wallace made a rookie mistake if he pushed A. The simple course of action would have been to push B and start over. Why lose two pennies? Of course, an alternative is that it was someone who was trying to scam a free call and he had not pushed A at all.
    Author of Cold Case Jury books: The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

    Comment


    • Hi CCJ,

      I don't see it as a rookie mistake if the caller pushed A after hearing the receiver respond, that's what you would do to continue the call. I'm saying he pushed A but the line dropped out after he thought he was connected ... which can happen...and may have happened...and why the second attempt did not work.

      If pushing B before 7 seconds elapsed and then call back to say say "I have not received my correspondent yet" was such an easy way to get around paying for a call, everyone would have done it and the Operator would have been told to connect each call and wait for the light for... "the penny to drop"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ColdCaseJury View Post

        etenguy, as you say, this point cannot differentiate clearly between guilt and innocence, although it can be interpreted as being consistent with either, depending on your prior position. That's the Wallace case all over.
        Hi CCJ

        Absolutely.

        Originally posted by ColdCaseJury View Post
        As I see it, Wallace wanted Beattie to fix the time more accurately (remember Wallace was a chronomaniac): that's about as far as we can go. Or am I missing something?
        I think we may be able go a little further. I think we can reasonably infer some information based on the interaction. The inferences I take from this interaction are:
        a) Wallace was unaware that the time of the call was fixed by the records at the exchange - I infer this both from the context of the conversation and the fact that he specifically said 'it is important to me'
        b) Whether innocent or guilty, I also infer that Wallace felt fixing the time of the call could benefit him if the call time was later than Beattie had alluded to.
        c) I also infer, that if Wallace had made the call, he was unaware the need for two calls in the circumstances that transpired would lead to information being recorded.
        d) I conclude (perhaps too easily) from the above inferences that if Wallace made the call, the incident with the button pushing and two calls being placed came about due to either a fault or an error, but crucially was not deliberate.

        I will go no further in this post for the sake of keeping focus, but I think the conclusion I reach above, if sound, may be helpful when considering potential scenarios around the call being placed. I think the scenarios you described in post #103 (both 1A and 1B) are both plausible and one could well be the explanation of what happened if the call incident was not a deliberate ploy.





        Comment


        • I like your thinking etenguy, as Wallace was a chronomaniac, he knew what time he called, the time to make it to the chess club and the "confusion" Beattie may have had with the time of the call... why would Beattie note the EXACT time

          Comment


          • on another note, both AMY and her son said Sunday 18th Jan was as normal as usual where William and Julia played music but William in his diary said 18 January 1931: Have not touched fiddle all day. It is unusual to let Sunday go by without some practice.""... even playing for his sister-in-law and nephew would be considered practice!

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            • ColdCaseJury from long old posts, do you have any docs on the Johnstons?... that we at JTR forums are unaware of? WWH seems to think you do?

              Comment


              • Could it be that 'Qualtrough' heard the operator clear her throat, or say something, as she was attempting to put him through, and he pressed button A, wrongly assuming he had already been connected to the cafe and a woman had picked up?

                Wallace may have made such an assumption if he was expecting to hear a female voice at the cafe, but would Parry, or any other caller?

                Whoever made the call would no doubt have rehearsed what he was going to say, and been a bit on edge if it was the first part of his plan for the following evening. Pressing button A prematurely might be a sign of nervous tension or excitement.

                Alternatively, there may have been an intermittent fault on the line, as opposed to one in the kiosk itself, and this would have been harder to diagnose as the call did eventually get through.

                Love,

                Caz
                X
                Last edited by caz; 01-27-2021, 02:36 PM.
                "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                Comment


                • I'm thinking your third point (paragraph) caz, there was a fault with the line... which also explains the 2nd fail

                  Comment


                  • It was certainly unfortunate for Wallace if a fault with the line, which nobody could have anticipated, led the call to be traced to that phone box.

                    Love,

                    Caz
                    X
                    "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ven View Post
                      Hi CCJ,

                      I don't see it as a rookie mistake if the caller pushed A after hearing the receiver respond, that's what you would do to continue the call. I'm saying he pushed A but the line dropped out after he thought he was connected ... which can happen...and may have happened...and why the second attempt did not work.

                      If pushing B before 7 seconds elapsed and then call back to say say "I have not received my correspondent yet" was such an easy way to get around paying for a call, everyone would have done it and the Operator would have been told to connect each call and wait for the light for... "the penny to drop"
                      Except Wallace said that he did not hear the receiver respond: "Operator, I have pushed button A but I have not had my correspondent yet."

                      Or am I being too simplistic?
                      Author of Cold Case Jury books: The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by caz View Post
                        Could it be that 'Qualtrough' heard the operator clear her throat, or say something, as she was attempting to put him through, and he pressed button A, wrongly assuming he had already been connected to the cafe and a woman had picked up?
                        Dagnabit! Debating with you, Caz, is like trying to catch a slippery fish in a barrel of fish oil! Just when I think you might be pushed into a corner, you swim away with ease!

                        Originally posted by caz View Post
                        Wallace may have made such an assumption if he was expecting to hear a female voice at the cafe, but would Parry, or any other caller?
                        I would say: Parry, yes. He was familiar with the set up.

                        Originally posted by caz View Post
                        Whoever made the call would no doubt have rehearsed what he was going to say, and been a bit on edge if it was the first part of his plan for the following evening. Pressing button A prematurely might be a sign of nervous tension or excitement.
                        Of course, this point was made by Dorothy Sayer. But an experienced caller (i.e. Wallace) would have surely said, "Operator, I have pushed A by mistake..."

                        Originally posted by caz View Post
                        Alternatively, there may have been an intermittent fault on the line, as opposed to one in the kiosk itself, and this would have been harder to diagnose as the call did eventually get through.
                        Personally, I feel a fault at Anfield 1627 is a non-starter (apart from the broken light bulb). Any fault would be on the line to Bank 3581.[/QUOTE]
                        Last edited by ColdCaseJury; 01-27-2021, 06:54 PM.
                        Author of Cold Case Jury books: The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ven View Post
                          ColdCaseJury from long old posts, do you have any docs on the Johnstons?... that we at JTR forums are unaware of? WWH seems to think you do?
                          Ven, I have only what is in the police file. WWH also dug out the statements the Johnston's gave to Munro. These painted a (sincere, I think) flattering picture of Wallace.
                          Author of Cold Case Jury books: The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ven View Post
                            I like your thinking etenguy, as Wallace was a chronomaniac, he knew what time he called, the time to make it to the chess club and the "confusion" Beattie may have had with the time of the call... why would Beattie note the EXACT time
                            Thank you, Ven. I hadn't come across the term chronomaniac until CCJ used it. As evocative as that term is, and as accurate as it may be, I am of the belief Wallace's pushing Beattie to remember the time of the call had nothing to do with any obsession with time per se, but had everything to do with trying to prove he did not have the time to make the call and reach the cafe by 7.45pm.

                            Comment


                            • .
                              Personally, I feel a fault at Anfield 1627 is a non-starter (apart from the broken light bulb). Any fault would be on the line to Bank 3581
                              Is this another one that we chalk against the police Antony? Not asking the engineer to check the cafe’s phone for a fault?
                              Regards

                              Herlock




                              “...A yellow fog swirls past the window-pane
                              As night descends upon this fabled street:
                              A lonely hansom splashes through the rain,
                              The ghostly gas lamps fail at twenty feet.
                              Here, though the world explode, these two survive,
                              And it is always eighteen ninety-five.”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                                Is this another one that we chalk against the police Antony? Not asking the engineer to check the cafe’s phone for a fault?
                                I think we're going over the case far more thoroughly than the police, Herlock. I think the case turned when they believed Wallace made the call - why it was logged was of little interest. For them, Wallace was the caller because the phone box was near to his house. For us, we are trying to infer the caller by the minutiae of what happened on Monday night. And to be fair to the police - it is a coincidence if Parry used it. However, if he saw Wallace - by chance or by plan - it would be the nearest call box for him too.

                                Instead of a visual line-up (for Lily Hall), don't you think the police should have done an aural line-up and made Wallace speak on the telephone to the operators? The pronunciation of "cafe" would have been key. This was dangerous for the police, however, because it could have undermined their case. Remember, in 1931, the police's primary objective was to nick someone for the crime. Justice was secondary. They weren't always mutually exclusive, of course, but they would have been keenly interested in evidence that pointed to Wallace's guilt.
                                Author of Cold Case Jury books: The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

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