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Who put Bella in the Witch Elm?

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  • #16
    Crikey, everyone has died from CoVid and the Triffids have taken over!
    My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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    • #17
      Guess I proved my point. If there's a cold case Herlock doesn't know about, it's not worth knowing about.

      Don't fancy shelling out £100 on a witchcraft themed McCormick book. Good find on the pamphlets though. There's so little available for this case. Who knows what might be turned up yet?
      Last edited by Al Bundy's Eyes; 10-25-2020, 09:09 AM. Reason: I swear, I'm not typing in those A's that appear in my posts. Damn you VBullitin!
      Thems the Vagaries.....

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post
        Guess I proved my point. If there's a cold case Herlock doesn't know about, it's not worth knowing about.

        Don't fancy shelling out £100 on a witchcraft themed McCormick book. Good find on the pamphlets though. There's so little available for this case. Who knows what might be turned up yet?
        I have the McCormick book, if anyone wants to stump up 100 quid it's gone!

        However, the body in the wych elm is only briefly referred to in McCormick's book. The book is devoted to the murder of Charles Walton who was murdered on St Valentines day 1945. I'm surprised it has not been mentioned in this forum. The murder is in my top five of unsolved murder mystery's in the UK. I have visited the area on a number of occasions, the first time many years ago, when some of those who were in the village of Lower Quinton on the day of the murder were still alive. I went into the Collage Arms, the Inn where Walton, and the probable murderer Farmer Potter drank, believe me they are very wary of strangers, none wanted to talk of the murder. I have many photos of the area, scene of the crime, Walton's cottage etc. Fabian of the Yard took control of the investigation.

        Seeing as the Forum seems to be drifting towards non Ripper related content, two unsolved murders, and a murder in which a culprit was convicted and hung are worthy of mention.

        The first a very famous murder, the Luard case, the second the little known murder of Herman Cohen, and the third the murder of John Nisbet. I believe John Dickman, was responsible for all three, he was hung for Nisbet's murder.

        If Dickman murdered all three then by definition he was a serial murderer. Profit being the motive. There are books devoted to the Luard, and Nisbet murders, nothing on the Cohen murder. I know the local Jewish community of the time believed Dickman to be the murderer of Cohen. Dickman was convicted on quite flimsy circumstantial evidence for Nisbet's murder, I wonder if the authorities realised the extant of this cold blooded killers activities, and decided he had to be put out of action. Fascinating cases, well worth checking out.
        Last edited by Observer; 10-25-2020, 12:46 PM.

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        • #19
          I was just reading about the graffiti. The Forensic Science Lab (South Wales and Monmouthshire) felt that the first three were by the same hand and the chalk was more or less similar. The first three were:

          HAGLEY WOOD BELLA (photo included)

          WHO PUT BELLA DOWN THE WYCH ELM - HAGLEY WOOD

          WHO PUT LUEBELLER IN THE WYCH ELM

          Then theres the possibility of copycats of course. The next one in the book even mentions Jack The Ripper.

          Then theres another photo of one:

          HAGLEY WOOD LUBELLA ADDRESS OPPOSITE THE ROSE AND CROWN HASBURY

          Then on a fence (with photo)

          ADDRESS WAS OPPOSITE ROSE AND CROWN HASBURY HAGLEY WOOD LUBELLA

          Then on a railway arch (photo)

          HAGLEY WOOD LUBELLA WAS NO PROSS

          On a wall

          HAGLEY WOOD LUBELLA ADDRESS 404 LOWER HASBURY HALESOWEN

          a family called Allsop had lived there for the last 56 years and no link could be found.

          ....

          Ill be interested to see in volume 2 about the search for Lubella as opposed to just Bella. I’ve never heard the name before. Researchers on your marks. Could she have been born elsewhere but married a Midlands man?

          A woman of 5ft or under, 25-40, mousy hair called Lubella (or variant spelling)
          Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 10-25-2020, 05:29 PM.
          Regards

          Herlock




          “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
          “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
          “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
          “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
          “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
            Could she have been born elsewhere but married a Midlands man?

            A woman of 5ft or under, 25-40, mousy hair called Lubella (or variant spelling)
            Would explain why her clothing labels were missing.
            How many Poms wore blue crepe soled shoes at that point in time!

            Lulu Belle. Sounds American. Her husband may have been involved in the War Effort and placed her in the "country" which was a bit safer from the bombing.

            Wonder why a squadron leader initially baby sat the tree, on one of the best connected men in the land's field, during the Birmingham Blitz!
            Last edited by DJA; 10-25-2020, 11:05 PM.
            My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post
              Guess I proved my point. If there's a cold case Herlock doesn't know about, it's not worth knowing about.

              Don't fancy shelling out £100 on a witchcraft themed McCormick book. Good find on the pamphlets though. There's so little available for this case. Who knows what might be turned up yet?
              Like the Jack the Ripper case,there is much evidence staring us in the face.

              Similar downgrading of the victim ..... mousey hair,clothing not up to scratch ..... apparently she did not shop at Harrods.

              Then the evidence disappears !

              Next she will have been born in Ireland and spent her teens in Wales.Then one of the wales will cough up her tattooed arm.Then someone will suggest her name was Jubela. AARGH!
              Last edited by DJA; 10-25-2020, 11:13 PM.
              My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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              • #22
                Was a cause of death ever determined?

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                • #23
                  Possibly choked on taffeta,which her underskirt was made from.

                  Probable rape.
                  My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                    Was a cause of death ever determined?
                    hi jr
                    cloth was found in her mouth, so they think she was suffocated with a piece of her own clothing. a prostitute reported to police that another prostitute named bella had disapeared from hagley road about 2-3 years prior.

                    so i think more than likely she was killed by someone, probably a john, who already knew about that tree, so a local man.

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                    • #25
                      Cheers chaps, that's what I'd read before. But I'm just listening to a podcast which states that the boys who discovered the body said that they placed the taffeta in the skull when they fished it out of the tree....
                      ​​

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                      • #26
                        The shoes were manufactured by Waterford Company,Lancashire and probably purchased from a market stall in Dudley.
                        My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                          Cheers chaps, that's what I'd read before. But I'm just listening to a podcast which states that the boys who discovered the body said that they placed the taffeta in the skull when they fished it out of the tree....
                          ​​
                          One of the boys, Bob Farmer, said that when he managed to fish the skull out by poking a stick into a hole at the base of the skull (the Foramen Magnum) he thought that he’d pushed in a piece of cloth.

                          Webster said that the body gave no pointers as to cause of death except for part of her skirt which had been pushed pretty deep into her mouth which might have indicated asphyxiation.
                          Regards

                          Herlock




                          “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                          “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                          “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                          “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                          “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by DJA View Post
                            The shoes were manufactured by Waterford Company,Lancashire and probably purchased from a market stall in Dudley.
                            They also checked shops in Bilston, Wednesbury and West Bromwich. I was in Wednesbury today.
                            Regards

                            Herlock




                            “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                            “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                            “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                            “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                            “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Webster said that she was between 4’ 9 1/5” and 4’ 10 1/5.” Tiny. It was also felt that the shoes, a size 5 1/5 were large for a woman of her size.

                              Regards

                              Herlock




                              “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                              “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                              “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                              “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                              “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I’m interested in the name Lubella can anybody find any examples? I just googled and got this:

                                Statistics and meaning of name Lubella


                                Usage: 88% firstname, 12% surname.
                                Lubella first name was found 16 times in 3 different countries.
                                Surname Lubella is used at least 2 times in at least 1 countries. (USA)
                                Regards

                                Herlock




                                “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                                “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                                “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                                “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                                “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                                Comment

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