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  • #31
    Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
    hi all
    in just a quick glance on the case in wiki-im not sure if there is much of a mystery here. smith holmes and brady were all in criminal cahoots together and eventually turned on each other. seems rather straight forward to me-- brady killed smith, holmes broke under pressure and tried to kill himself, but was eventually killed by brady/accomplice. am i missing something?

    i guess my main question would be-were holmes and brady in on the smith murder?
    Abby, every book on this case (there are four, quite an elite club) has found Brady more or less innocent. So, I guess that would be the mystery for you! However, it is unlikely that Brady was involved in the death of Holmes because he was in custody, and it is quite a stretch to even believe that he orchestrated a hit from behind bars. So, the killing of Holmes then becomes open and, with it, the entire case. Just sayin'...
    Author of Cold Case Jury books: The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by ColdCaseJury View Post

      Abby, every book on this case (there are four, quite an elite club) has found Brady more or less innocent. So, I guess that would be the mystery for you! However, it is unlikely that Brady was involved in the death of Holmes because he was in custody, and it is quite a stretch to even believe that he orchestrated a hit from behind bars. So, the killing of Holmes then becomes open and, with it, the entire case. Just sayin'...
      ok thanks cold case. just seems to me brady was pretty much behind the murders. ex military would have been pretty handy with a gun and probably a scary dude with lots of nefarious connections to other killers. to me looks like a bunch of criminals with one snake a little nastier than the others.
      "Is all that we see or seem
      but a dream within a dream?"

      -Edgar Allan Poe


      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

      -Frederick G. Abberline

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

        ok thanks cold case. just seems to me brady was pretty much behind the murders. ex military would have been pretty handy with a gun and probably a scary dude with lots of nefarious connections to other killers. to me looks like a bunch of criminals with one snake a little nastier than the others.
        Unless it was Holmes who murdered Smith and set Brady up. Lots of permutations when you look deeper. Not sure how much fighting Brady did - his military service introduced him to his criminal expertise - signature forgery.
        Author of Cold Case Jury books: The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

        Comment


        • #34
          I’m looking forward to getting a couple of books on the case as I can see where Abby’s coming from. Purely from reading what’s online I'm being pointed heavily toward Brady having to have been involved. I know from experience with Antony’s previous books though that he wouldn’t have chosen it if it was straightforward.

          ****

          Im not asking for names of course Antony but have you got anything in mind as your next case yet?
          Regards

          Herlock



          Chairman of the National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To The Old Established Theories.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

            Classic Herlock, side stepping the real question. Who put Bella in the Wytch Elm? No answer old man. Stumped. Pun intended.
            To be honest Al I’d heard of this but I’ve never looked at it properly. I’ve just read some of the online stuff and it sounds really interesting. I’ve got three books on order so I might get one on the Witch Elm Case next. The Merrill ones look interesting.
            Regards

            Herlock



            Chairman of the National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To The Old Established Theories.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
              I’m looking forward to getting a couple of books on the case as I can see where Abby’s coming from. Purely from reading what’s online I'm being pointed heavily toward Brady having to have been involved. I know from experience with Antony’s previous books though that he wouldn’t have chosen it if it was straightforward.
              Brady is involved at least in that he covered something up at the cottage, but this does not mean he is guilty of murder. The interesting question is what is the extent of his involvement. The major authors prior to me (Castles, Roope) both find Brady - at most - an accessory after the fact - so hopefully that should at least tell you that there is an interesting case in the detail.

              Im not asking for names of course Antony but have you got anything in mind as your next case yet?
              I have 3 cases in mind. But I'm always open to suggestions, especially for someone as well travelled in true crime such as yourself, and others on this forum.

              Author of Cold Case Jury books: The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by ColdCaseJury View Post

                Brady is involved at least in that he covered something up at the cottage, but this does not mean he is guilty of murder. The interesting question is what is the extent of his involvement. The major authors prior to me (Castles, Roope) both find Brady - at most - an accessory after the fact - so hopefully that should at least tell you that there is an interesting case in the detail.



                I have 3 cases in mind. But I'm always open to suggestions, especially for someone as well travelled in true crime such as yourself, and others on this forum.
                a book on the torsos would be good. still waiting for someone to jump on that one!
                "Is all that we see or seem
                but a dream within a dream?"

                -Edgar Allan Poe


                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                -Frederick G. Abberline

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                  a book on the torsos would be good. still waiting for someone to jump on that one!
                  I though that Fish might have a crack at that one Abby? Hadn’t Debra Arif done some research on the torso’s too? A joint venture maybe?

                  The problem for Antony is that there aren’t any suspects. Apart from you-know-who from Fish of course.
                  Regards

                  Herlock



                  Chairman of the National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To The Old Established Theories.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                    I though that Fish might have a crack at that one Abby? Hadn’t Debra Arif done some research on the torso’s too? A joint venture maybe?

                    The problem for Antony is that there aren’t any suspects. Apart from you-know-who from Fish of course.
                    i think fish said ed stow may be working on one from that angle. yes debras done some great work on it and ive often asked her to wite one, not sure if shes helping ed or not.

                    full disclosure..as you know i lean toward torsoman and the ripper being the same, and lech is one of the only suspects fit tje bill agewise for that so lech has been slowly climbing my list for viable suspects.

                    but yes a good book on the torsos is long past due.
                    "Is all that we see or seem
                    but a dream within a dream?"

                    -Edgar Allan Poe


                    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                    -Frederick G. Abberline

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Just noticed that Professer Webster in the ‘Who Put Bella In The Wych Elm’ case also appeared for the defence in the Porthole Murder case which was Antony’s second Cold Case book.
                      Regards

                      Herlock



                      Chairman of the National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To The Old Established Theories.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                        Just noticed that Professer Webster in the ‘Who Put Bella In The Wych Elm’ case also appeared for the defence in the Porthole Murder case which was Antony’s second Cold Case book.
                        Webster did not impress me in the Camb case. He was looking for medical conditions that Gay Gibson possibly suffered from (given scant evidence about her health) to suggest that Gay died naturally as Camb suggested. It was theory before facts. How did he do in the Wych Elm case?
                        Author of Cold Case Jury books: The Shark Arm Mystery (2020), Poisoned at the Priory (2020), Move to Murder (2018), Death of an Actress (2018), The Green Bicycle Mystery (2017) - "Armchair detectives will be delighted" - Publishers Weekly. And for something completely different - I'm the co-founder of Wow-Vinyl - celebrating the Golden Years of the British Single (1977-85)

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ColdCaseJury View Post

                          Webster did not impress me in the Camb case. He was looking for medical conditions that Gay Gibson possibly suffered from (given scant evidence about her health) to suggest that Gay died naturally as Camb suggested. It was theory before facts. How did he do in the Wych Elm case?
                          I can’t see that he did much wrong to be honest. A lot of the evidence has vanished though. No one even knows where the skeleton is. If it’s been buried no one knows where.

                          Im reading The Case That Foiled Fabian at the moment about the murder of Charles Walton in 1945. Webster was called in on that one too. He appears to have been highly regarded but that doesn’t make him immune from error of course.

                          Should get my first Shark Arm book next week. Then it’s yours
                          Regards

                          Herlock



                          Chairman of the National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To The Old Established Theories.

                          Comment


                          • #43


                            Ok Antony I got the Roope and Meagher book today and I've just started it so I'll make points/ask questions as I go.

                            It appears that Smith didn't expect any kind of trouble? He asked his brother to accompany him on the trip so it seems that he genuinely expected a fishing trip that he was getting paid for and then he'd be going home.

                            At the risk of stating the obvious it looks like Smith was restrained before death as there was rope around his arm. Maybe his murder wasn't a foregone conclusion? Did someone want information from him?

                            Antony, a phone call from a man with a gruff voice? Where have I heard that one before?



                            Regards

                            Herlock



                            Chairman of the National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To The Old Established Theories.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post



                              Antony, a phone call from a man with a gruff voice? Where have I heard that one before?


                              No! Bad Herlock! No!
                              Thems the Vagaries.....

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

                                No! Bad Herlock! No!
                                Regards

                                Herlock



                                Chairman of the National Society For The Prevention Of Cruelty To The Old Established Theories.

                                Comment

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