The Murder of Julia Wallace (1931) - Full DPP case files

[Herlock Sholmes]

Btw would you mind if I used your theory from Antony's site and added it to my own? With credit. I can use your real name, initials, username whatever you prefer.

No problem at all WWH.

[WallaceWackedHer]

No problem at all WWH.

Cool, I hadn't seen the full PDF before, it has much more important info than the cut down version on the web page.

I like the suggestion of the fire being set up for the piano before the milk boy had come.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Cool, I hadn't seen the full PDF before, it has much more important info than the cut down version on the web page.

I like the suggestion of the fire being set up for the piano before the milk boy had come.

Cheers. Didn’t Antony say that he wanted to put your scenario onto his website? Are you writing an abridged version in which he’ll put a link to the full version as a pdf?

[WallaceWackedHer]

Cheers. Didn’t Antony say that he wanted to put your scenario onto his website? Are you writing an abridged version in which he’ll put a link to the full version as a pdf?

He wanted me to write a storytelling type version, I'm not quite so good at that, haven't started on it yet.

I also said to him I wanted to get some more facts and evidence behind the idea first as well, to be able to illustrate the thing start to finish.

Right now I have a shell with logical deductions, but I need to fully flesh the thing out. And it still could turn out I'm wrong... So I really want to have more evidence and facts etc before going fully in on something.

The solution on my site ironically I wrote as I went along, I'd floated the idea before but it wasn't my "solution", I was more on the prank train, just turned out that way as I wrote it things started to make sense.

Would you mind if I added in commentary on your article? I'll make it toggle-able (off by default, but people can click a link to show my thoughts and it'll show my responses to each point).

I think the robbery staging would have been done before the killing as well as the cabinet door being off. Hell, the door might have been off for days for all we know. I don't think anybody trying to do things as fast as possible would wait until AFTER he's killed his wife to stage the robbery. It's unnecessary time wasting for anyone working against a clock.

And that "cupboard door" is very misleading, because I've often seen it referred to as a "lid", and implications it's a box rather than a cabinet.

Evidently people back then were not fussy about nailing the particulars.

... Oh also I noticed you saying the officer said Wallace seemed nervous. I remember reading that before as well, is that from a book? I'm not sure if it's a statement of fact though. Again with this case, it seems the people who wrote about it were not fussed about accuracy.

I'll have to check the trial now since I think he would have mentioned this (the officer) when being questioned in court, if Wallace had seemed jittery.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I’m no longer interested in taking part in any further discussion on the Wallace case. Your piece is presented as it is and yet mine is presented with an unfairly critical running commentary all the way through it and so anyone reading this will automatically form an impression that I’m just about wrong or biased on so many points. If I had a website I would simply have presented yours as it stood just as Antony has done and as anyone else would have done.

So I’ve twice let go the fact that you’ve called me dishonest and now you’ve done this.

Im done.

[WallaceWackedHer]

I’m no longer interested in taking part in any further discussion on the Wallace case. Your piece is presented as it is and yet mine is presented with an unfairly critical running commentary all the way through it and so anyone reading this will automatically form an impression that I’m just about wrong or biased on so many points. If I had a website I would simply have presented yours as it stood just as Antony has done and as anyone else would have done.

So I’ve twice let go the fact that you’ve called me dishonest and now you’ve done this.

Im done.

Why are you so sensitive - I thought you might not be okay with it hence why I asked in the post above. I'll remove my commentary then (and btw how did you even find my draft copy, it wasn't even finished lol) but two things:

1. I would VERY much appreciate a critical commentary on my own theory, and I will GLADLY present it on my site. Like this isn't sarcasm or saving face or w.e., I'm saying I genuinely would really appreciate that a LOT. You could even bullet point the issues you find and put it as a comment. That might work better because then we can have back and forth exchanges.

2. I feel like some of the actual wrong facts should be changed, there are only a few which I can't find now because I took my commentary off. I think for example, you said William visited Crewe just 5 times, but he had actually been there more than that for business. The defence made him lowball the amount of visits Wallace had made there.

Am I allowed to amend those?

[moste]

An issue for the Housebreaker argument is of course that if someone had broken in, expecting the house to have been empty, they would hardly have been likely to have put the cash box back on the shelf. And as with any theory involving robbery we have to ask why no search was made? I’ll paraphrase the old saying “if it doesn’t walk like a robbery and it doesn’t look like a robbery then it probably isn’t a robbery.”

True, but. the thing with this case is it’s impossible to ascertain, was the burglary staged, or real?

[moste]

I’m no longer interested in taking part in any further discussion on the Wallace case. Your piece is presented as it is and yet mine is presented with an unfairly critical running commentary all the way through it and so anyone reading this will automatically form an impression that I’m just about wrong or biased on so many points. If I had a website I would simply have presented yours as it stood just as Antony has done and as anyone else would have done.

So I’ve twice let go the fact that you’ve called me dishonest and now you’ve done this.

Im done.

There is the option of complaining to Admin Herlock!

[OneRound]

True, but. the thing with this case is it’s impossible to ascertain, was the burglary staged, or real?

Is this referring to WWH nicking Herlock's theory?

[WallaceWackedHer]

There is the option of complaining to Admin Herlock!

Nah he said to my mate he's afraid he'll get banned if he speaks openly to me in front of the Admin.

I swear to god tbh with you, I'm 27 years old and sometimes it feels like half the men double my age who post here act like infants.

What sort of manchild would I have to be to go crying to "Admin" if someone insults me because their feelz were hurt because I asked - before publishing an article which was in drafts - if I could add my own comments. And vice versa could someone do the same to my article? Like again... What sort of manchild do people think I am that I wouldn't appreciate (ironically I WOULD - VERY much so and literally am hoping someone will) someone pointing out parts where I am wrong.

It's like some people's entire egos are fixated on their "theory" on some century old cold case. It's VERY, VERY, VERY sad and probably quite literally autistic in anyone over the age of 10.

Why do so many people seem to not want to solve a case, but instead just prove they're right like children? Antony seems to be interested in truth I guess since he actually points out flaws in his and other people's ideas. Like I did in mine and have in other people's suggestions.

I've cycled through like 100 ideas, including the extremely bizarre, because when things have been proven wrong I've adapted... Because I'm not a 2 year old in the body of a middle aged man whose ego depends on glamour on a forum with about 5 active posters.

I know most people here do actually have the mind of an adult so that's nice. But autistic behaviour is something I just can't stand. Sorry to offend any autists but that type of behaviour riles me up BAD... I mean I'd be inclined to blame myself had I not explicitly asked if I am allowed to add commentary which can be toggled on or off... But even if I hadn't (I did though), if we're being totally honest it's still like, oversensitive and incredibly bizarre behaviour for a grown man lmao - if not legitimately autistic.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Wallace, the knowledge you have for this case, and more importantly, the time and effort you've put into it are admirable. And putting the full files online for all to scrutinize is equally commendable. As a transient observer, I appreciate you and Herlock don't see eye to eye, and I also appreciate that what was clearly an innocent suggestion from yourself might have been over reacted to. But to launch into a tirade against Autistic behaviour, and to imply Herlock is autistic, that's a bit much. If you think he's out of line, say so, reasonably. And you know, maybe he is over sensitive, unable to accept criticism, loves to be right, but to start bandying about criticisms of autism or other mental health issues is poor form.

[WallaceWackedHer]

Is this referring to WWH nicking Herlock's theory?

Lol... Honestly I'm a nice person so I couch my thoughts but it occurred to me like, why? I probably should be more open.

I did get a warning to be banned because I said Rod obviously has autism (like legit diagnosable, I completed OU psych courses and heavily read psych textbooks in my free time as a hobby - and it just struck me as so obvious).

I can't really think of any other board online where a 50 year old man could be upset enough about such a petty comment to want someone banned.

But I did get that warning and maybe that's partly why I'm wary of being honest?

Either way I will say, nobody can deny I am very malleable, I've accused just about everyone and adapted when proven wrong because I don't care about some egotistical reason to be "right"... While others will sharpen and level (well, more than that actually) because they feel some NEED to be right.

Stuff like that irks me. If that makes me somehow unsuitable for a community then whatever, that's up to the higher ups to decide. But it will ALWAYS irk me unless I just try to hide it, because that's the type of person I am.

I argue with my grandma often for the same reason. She'll be claiming antibiotics work for viruses (because she's from an era before people were better educated), and she won't budge on the opinion even when I PROVE it's ******* WRONG. And I'll get into shouting matches over that because it bothers me so much that I'm not able to just let it slide.

...

I guess it makes sense I wouldn't be well received by many here. Look at the type of person I am... I go out drinking picking up women every few weeks, I use "special" bodybuilding "supplements" spending most of my time bodybuilding, experiment with acid and other drugs, and earn around £45,000 per year by working about 5 minutes per day.

I'm a bizarre type of person for sure... That's just who I am. So yeah...

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Lol... Honestly I'm a nice person so I couch my thoughts but it occurred to me like, why? I probably should be more open.

I did get a warning to be banned because I said Rod obviously has autism (like legit diagnosable, I completed OU psych courses and heavily read psych textbooks in my free time as a hobby - and it just struck me as so obvious).

I can't really think of any other board online where a 50 year old man could be upset enough about such a petty comment to want someone banned.

But I did get that warning and maybe that's partly why I'm wary of being honest?

Either way I will say, nobody can deny I am very malleable, I've accused just about everyone and adapted when proven wrong because I don't care about some egotistical reason to be "right"... While others will sharpen and level (well, more than that actually) because they feel some NEED to be right.

Stuff like that irks me. If that makes me somehow unsuitable for a community then whatever, that's up to the higher ups to decide. But it will ALWAYS irk me unless I just try to hide it, because that's the type of person I am.

I argue with my grandma often for the same reason. She'll be claiming antibiotics work for viruses (because she's from an era before people were better educated), and she won't budge on the opinion even when I PROVE it's ******* WRONG. And I'll get into shouting matches over that because it bothers me so much that I'm not able to just let it slide.

...

I guess it makes sense I wouldn't be well received by many here. Look at the type of person I am... I go out drinking picking up women every few weeks, I use "special" bodybuilding "supplements" spending most of my time bodybuilding, experiment with acid and other drugs, and earn around £45,000 per year by working about 5 minutes per day.

I'm a bizarre type of person for sure... That's just who I am. So yeah...

Interesting last paragraph there Wallace. May I refer you to the response given in Arkell versus Pressdram?

[WallaceWackedHer]

Wallace, the knowledge you have for this case, and more importantly, the time and effort you've put into it are admirable. And putting the full files online for all to scrutinize is equally commendable. As a transient observer, I appreciate you and Herlock don't see eye to eye, and I also appreciate that what was clearly an innocent suggestion from yourself might have been over reacted to. But to launch into a tirade against Autistic behaviour, and to imply Herlock is autistic, that's a bit much. If you think he's out of line, say so, reasonably. And you know, maybe he is over sensitive, unable to accept criticism, loves to be right, but to start bandying about criticisms of autism or other mental health issues is poor form.

Well I'm legit angered. That's what I mean by couching thoughts. It IS poor form perhaps to say someone's autistic (I didn't say HS was, just said it's similar actions), but honestly have you posted on other forums before and seen how people on other boards talk to each other?

That's like the mildest insult on the web...

SHOULD I hide my thoughts and feelings for the benefit of others? Well, maybe... But I'm not sure. I've often found in life personally that beyond admitting to a fat girl she looks fat when she asks (etc. Lol), being completely and utterly open and honest usually leads to the best outcomes.

I mean I'm angered someone thinks I'm such a BABY that I'd cry to a forum admin if they said a bad word against me. Like what is this?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Fact check.....I did not say to Josh that I thought that you’d report me. I said that if I got too p****d off and said something in anger I could get a warning from Admin and that the thread might also degenerate into a heated argument which might have got the thread closed. Warnings have been given before and threads have been closed before.

You said this:

.

Btw would you mind if I used your theory from Antony's site and added it to my own? With credit. I can use your real name, initials, username whatever you prefer.

I said yes with no problem.

I post on here and on Ripper threads. I disagree and am disagreed with all of the time. I don’t become ‘autistic’ when someone disagrees with me. I’ve been wrong on many occasions and have always accepted the facts if I have been. What you did was dishonest. Pure and simple. Something that you’ve resorted to calling me more than once (and something that I’ve never resorted to calling you by the way.) On your thread you have your own theory unchallenged (there’s a comments section but of course you have to actively click on it to read them, whether there are criticisms there or not. I certainly haven’t posted any) but mine is there littered with a running commentary of things like like “this is faulty logic....” or “this is disproven...” when it’s actually the case that you simply disagree with it. So any casual reader would naturally assume that most of the stuff I’ve written there is unreliable and can therefore be dismissed. There can be no one on the whole Forum that can’t see that this isn’t an honest and fair way of treating someone else’s writing (especially if they just happen to disagree with your own.) And yet you try and paint me as the one at fault. Treating others work with at least a modicum of respect is important (to most people anyway.)

And now you resort to:

. Because I'm not a 2 year old in the body of a middle aged man whose ego depends on glamour on a forum with about 5 active posters.

I have always discussed the case fairly and openly. I’ve always listened to other ideas. I’ve never said that the solution that I favour is categorically the solution. I’ve said numerous times that I could be wrong.

By the way, and just so that we can be clear, you said this....

.
Would you mind if I added in commentary on your article? I'll make it toggle-able (off by default, but people can click a link to show my thoughts and it'll show my responses to each point).

The important point is that I hadn’t responded to this request and yet you went ahead and did it anyway because the comments were there when I visited the site? I’m sure that most people would agree that it’s customary to wait for a yes or no before proceeding? But of course, I’m in the wrong here aren’t I?

So I’m not sulking or acting like a 2 year old nor am I on an ego trip. I’m someone who doesn’t like being lied to and who doesn’t like to be called a liar and not someone that is so biased he cannot form an honest opinion. I’m also someone who prefers to treat others with some measure of respect despite differences of opinion and, for some stupid, naive reason, kind of hopes for the same back.

Ill leave it for others to judge.