Manson Ranch--New Investigation

[Celesta]

Limehouse,

You put your finger right on it when you said "he knew where their vulnerabilities lay." He was a psychopath, and those creatures use the vulnerabilities of others as their bread and butter. That's the main the thing they are good at. He couldn't have cared less about those people.

Put the way you put it, concerning the times, the were more apart of the chaotic world, in a sense, than the protesters and other groups pushing for change. He was what the world needed change from.

Good post, Limehouse, very good insights and well stated. Thank you. You have given me a new outlook on Manson and his groupies.

[Celesta]

Hello JM,

If you're still checking this. I've been making my way through the information on this family tragedy. I haven't gotten down to the sentencing part yet, so I don't know why this guy was not executed.

As I understand it, Eldora was your grandmother? And Theresa was her sister?

I was stunned when I saw the part about the neighbors scavenging the family possessions on the one hand and wanting to form lynch mobs on the other. Lord, what a world we live in... Stealing from the family on one hand and wanting to kill the murderer on the other.

Did your grandmother ever speak much about the orphanage? I would be a bit surprised if she talked much about the murders.

This is awful, JM. I'm sorry it happened.

[Patti]

Manson and the three girls were sentence to death but the California death penalty statutes were deemed unconstitutional, and their sentences were commuted to life. Unfortuantely, this means they are all eligible for parole.

The basic reason one or all of them have not been released is that Sharon Tate's mother and now sister attend every hearing. He will die in jail but there is a chance the girls will be paroled.

[Limehouse]

Thanks for that Patti. I understand that the parole hearings are filmed and that some of them are posted on You Tube.

Most of the Manson girls are women in their late 50s or early 60s now and almost all of them have disassociated themselves from Manson (except, I think, for Lynnette Fromme and Sandra Good??).

It appears that Manson continues to deny his involvement, to deny there was any 'family' and that he only 'cared' for unwanted children. He has also refused all 'improvement' programmes in jail, even educational programmes, that would have enabled him to learn to read and write, which he can hardly do. He is obviously not going to get parole any day soon. he is now 73.

Mary Brunner, his first 'girl' apparently served her time in jail and moved back to be near her family. She had a son by Manson, who must now be almost 40 years old. Incidently, Manson also has an older son, by his wife, who is now over 50 years old.

[Celesta]

Thanks for that Patti. I understand that the parole hearings are filmed and that some of them are posted on You Tube.

Most of the Manson girls are women in their late 50s or early 60s now and almost all of them have disassociated themselves from Manson (except, I think, for Lynnette Fromme and Sandra Good??).

It appears that Manson continues to deny his involvement, to deny there was any 'family' and that he only 'cared' for unwanted children. He has also refused all 'improvement' programmes in jail, even educational programmes, that would have enabled him to learn to read and write, which he can hardly do. He is obviously not going to get parole any day soon. he is now 73.

Mary Brunner, his first 'girl' apparently served her time in jail and moved back to be near her family. She had a son by Manson, who must now be almost 40 years old. Incidently, Manson also has an older son, by his wife, who is now over 50 years old.

Sons? Well, that's a scary bit of information. Can you imagine being one of those guys? A lot of info has surfaced since I read about these nutcases.

Interesting info. Thanks, Limehouse and Patti.

[Celesta]

POST-MORTEM: No bodies found!

[dougie]

Watched a documentary last night about Manson,usual thing ,but part of the documentary focused on how Manson took "control" of his followers.Or rather how easy it is to do that kind of thing. It illustrated that, by showing the results of group conformity tests.How people will in general say black is white,knowing it is untrue,if,to tell the truth would put them in the minority.The need for acceptance,the need to fit in,the need to feel part of something.Its pretty frightening,but of course we all see examples of that ,everyday of our lives,though not to that extreme,I guess.I found it fascinating.
regards

[Mitch Rowe]

Watched a documentary last night about Manson,usual thing ,but part of the documentary focused on how Manson took "control" of his followers.Or rather how easy it is to do that kind of thing. It illustrated that, by showing the results of group conformity tests.How people will in general say black is white,knowing it is untrue,if,to tell the truth would put them in the minority.The need for acceptance,the need to fit in,the need to feel part of something.Its pretty frightening,but of course we all see examples of that ,everyday of our lives,though not to that extreme,I guess.I found it fascinating.
regards

Cult Mentality I call it. Each and every person is capable of being brainwashed. How could Hitler recruit seemingly normal people to do brutal things. Some of whom were Policemen in a democratic society? The answer is written in Mein Kampf.

Probably the best(Or worst. Depending on how you look at it.)example of brainwashing and cult mentality is Jim Jones. Known to his followers as "Dad".

I urge people to study these cases. At any time anyone could be subjected and fall into these traps. Or a loved one may fall. It is danger disguised as love and caring.

One of the biggest "dupes" in modern times is the E-Meter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyE6aSc6Hkw

I can tell you as an Electronic Engineer with 30 years practical experience that the E-Meter is a worthless hunk of junk that serves no practical purpose other than to measure a persons skin conductivity wich is determined by the amount one persperates at any given moment.

The real purpose of the E-Meter is to perpetrate lies and fraudulence.

[dougie]

Just wondering here Mitch,yes we can all be brainwashed,but could we all be brainwashed to such a degree as the manson girls were? To stab,and stab repeatedly a pregnant woman for example? The point was made in the documentary that while sadie and kreinwinkle and watson went to extremes....van houten didnt ,she supposedly "helped" (which is bad enough)but didnt actually kill anyone.The majority of the cult stayed loyal to manson,even after knowing of the murders...But, Barbara hoyt for example fled the family when she understood what had happened.I guess some are plainly miore susceptible.....or is the "killer" lurking in all of us.....?...this is a creepy thought.
regards

[Mitch Rowe]

Yes... I would say we all are capable given the right circumstances. Hitler explains what needs to be done in Mein Kampf. The best thing anyone could do to avoid the trap is to read what he said. You will notice all cults practice the same essentials he outlined. Many "Men" use these same techniques to control Women. Why would a Woman with her wits about her stay with a man that beats her and her children? Answer..She is isolated and feels unworthy to do anything about it. She is kept by terror and brainwashed into thinking she will never have a life beyond what she is experiencing.
Its a terrible thing. But happens every day of our lives.

[Celesta]

Hi Mitch and Dougie,

Sad to say, I think you are both right, and, like you said D, it's pretty scary. With the battered woman issue, I think that lack or funds and a safe place to get to is also part of the deterent from fleeing. I can't imagine myself staying in a situation like that. Of course, I don't know what I really would do.

In this Manson case, I believe all of these people were spiritual, emotionally, socially, and financially bankrupt. They were needy in so many ways. Yet that still doesn't explain why they would cooperate to the degree that they did in doing something so horrendous. They were disenfranchised from everything, and Charlie was going to make them somebody. Why they thought killing rich people was going to change anything, I don't know. Something like that could never be a permanent solution.

The cult mentality and the pack mentality. You're right, Mitch, I need to learn more about it.

Best,

Cel

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Celesta!

Don't forget one factor in this case;

The high-IQed manipulator called Charles Manson!

This spring I even read, that he had two sons; the elder one committed suicide while adult, and the younger one (with a different woman) doesn't want to have anything to do with his father!

All the best
Jukka

[caz]

Hi All,

I suppose it's a case of the weak being drawn to the strong. Fine if the strong-minded are also open-minded and only use their strengths in a positive way, to encourage the weak to build up the confidence they need to think and act independently.

But whenever a strong but closed-minded individual abuses his powers to exploit people with weaker minds, who need someone to look up to and to give them constant approval for their beliefs or behaviour, he can become a very dangerous animal indeed.

Love,

Caz
X

[Celesta]

Not to forget that drugs were involved as well. Druggies are reluctant to abandon their source, I imagine.

I also have the impression that it was not easy to leave that group.

[Celesta]

Hello Celesta!

Don't forget one factor in this case;

The high-IQed manipulator called Charles Manson!

This spring I even read, that he had two sons; the elder one committed suicide while adult, and the younger one (with a different woman) doesn't want to have anything to do with his father!

All the best
Jukka

Hello Jukka,

Who can blame these sons for wanting to escape being the son of this monster.

Best,

Cel