Manson Ranch--New Investigation

[Celesta]

Hi Gang,

I came across this new item on Charles Manson yesterday and thought some might find it interesting. Authorities are taking another look at the ranch in order to determine if additional Manson "family" murder victims are buried there.

Hope the link works.

http://www.comcast.net/news/articles/general/2008/03/15/CSI.Manson.Ranch/

[Vila]

The link works fine, but one has to use an up-to-date browser. Comcast has a line of code in the page that redirects anyone with an old browser to a page of links to upgrade. I had to copy the link and switch to my Firefox browser because my out-dated version of Mozilla Suite got sent to the alternate page.

Vila

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi Celesta

Not the actual the ranch it seems. The ranch was in the hills at the top of Topanga Canyon which runs down to the sea at Malibu but this investigation seems to in the desert somewhere. Considering those people I'm sure there could be other murders.

On a personal note, in 1968 I hitch-hiked from New York to LA and in August was staying with a friend I'd met in London the previous year who had a house on Topanga Canyon. Half way down the canyon was a little cafe that I liked to visit and one day what looked like a school bus full of attractive young ladies stopped outside the cafe and they all came in. Having had much success with American girls (an English accent was a powerful aphrodisiac in those days) I zeroed in on the best looking girl and attempted to entice her away. But she looked scared and kept saying 'No, no I can't leave the bus, it's not allowed to leave the bus', which I found strange. I then had a short conversation with the only male there who was the driver. He was a short, wiry man and though of 'hippie' appearance he seemed to me really old, which was unusual then. I met the girl a few days later at a rock concert on the Baywatch beach and she was with a tall guy wearing a rubber skull mask.

Anyway, this whole incident stuck in my mind for some reason and when in the early 1990s I read in the Bugliosi book that Charles Manson in August 1968 was ferrying his girls up and down Topanga Canyon in a school bus, a shiver ran up my spine, Literally.

[Celesta]

Hi Guys,

Holy jumping moly, Stephen. Thank God, you didn't get lured into the bus or in any other interactions with them. That is truly scary. I read Helter Skelter umpty-ump years ago but have forgotten most of it. Different ranch then.


Dan, should I try to copy the test to here, or leave it as it is?

[Vila]

Just leave it as it is. I think Casebook users would be able to figure it out quite easily. My post was just a bit of warning for those of us who habitually use older versions of our favorite web browsers.

Vila

[Stephen Thomas]

Holy jumping moly, Stephen. Thank God, you didn't get lured into the bus or in any other interactions with them. That is truly scary.

Thanks Celesta

I've often considered that myself. Those really were strange days. I think that Manson preyed on people with damaged personalities but I was always a grounded, 'together' person so he let me be.

[sdreid]

Ah! Stephen was "ridin' dirty" back in those days.

But seriously, you lucked out. I might have had a similar encounter myself when a couple of guys asked me for a ride in a club in the late 70s. Years later, I saw pictures of Lucas and Toole who looked familiar.

Perhaps it wasn't them but the scary thought is that, for a moment, I considered giving them a lift.

[Celesta]

Ah! Stephen was "ridin' dirty" back in those days.

But seriously, you lucked out. I might have had a similar encounter myself when a couple of guys asked me for a ride in a club in the late 70s. Years later, I saw pictures of Lucas and Toole who looked familiar.

Perhaps it wasn't them but the scary thought is that, for a moment, I considered giving them a lift.

Oh, man. Another close call. I'm beginning to think I haven't lived.

Oh, a guy did try to come in my apartment window one night. There was supposed to be a serial killer in the area. It was when I first went to Texas. Hmmm. Wonder if there is anything on the net about a serial killer at the time.

[sdreid]

Celesta-What year was that encounter? Did you bash his brains out with an iron skillet?

[jmenges]

Not the actual the ranch it seems. The ranch was in the hills at the top of Topanga Canyon which runs down to the sea at Malibu but this investigation seems to in the desert somewhere. Considering those people I'm sure there could be other murders.

This article refers to Barker ranch, not the Spahn Movie ranch. Tex Watson's broken down truck still sits at the site of Barker ranch, btw.

JM

[Magpie]

I never realized that the body of Shorty Shea had been uncovered.

I was surprised to learn a couple of weeks ago that there are actually people out there who believe that the Manson Family are innocent and the crime scene photos from the Tate-Labianca crimes are doctored.

I guess it takes all kinds...

[Celesta]

Celesta-What year was that encounter? Did you bash his brains out with an iron skillet?

Hi Stan, It was, I think, in 1981? Could have been early 1982. You'd think I would remember, wouldn't you? It was no later than 1983.

It was a Sunday night and I was about to go to bed. The apt on the ground floor with a door and picture window on the front w/one of those wooden fences with a gate around a tiny patio, and a window on the back, which overlooked the parking lot. The back window was in my bedroom. About 10 pm, I got a horrible feeling something was wrong. I always kept my rock hammer by the bed, so I got it and went to check the window, to make sure it was locked. If I had looked down or even out I would have seen him. I reached up to check the top lock and the hammer was dangling from my wrist by a rawhide strap. I wondered later if he saw the hammer and knew I had a weapon or weather he just ran when the curtain opened. The next evening the manager came by and told me she'd found one of the pool chairs pulled up under my window. The bottom part of the window had been pried up, almost like he was trying to pry it out.

I was new to the area, but I had heard rumors of a serial killer who was beheading women. I don't know if it was true. I'm alive because I got that terrible heavy sense of something really bad close to me.

Thanks for asking about this. I'm going to do a search on killings in Houston in this time period.

Have a good day.

[jmenges]

I never realized that the body of Shorty Shea had been uncovered.

Steve Grogan was released from prison after aiding the police in locating the body of Shea. To date, Grogan is the only Manson "family" member to have been released after being convicted of murder.

JM

[sdreid]

Hi Celesta,

There are two major unsolved Texas serial killer cases from that era that I know of.

One is the I-35 Killer that some think Lucas was in on as well.

The case you are probably thinking of is the Houston Headsman who decapitated 3 women in 1979. He also shot and killer one of the women's boyfriend.

[Celesta]

Hi Celesta,

There are two major unsolved Texas serial killer cases from that era that I know of.

One is the I-35 Killer that some think Lucas was in on as well.

The case you are probably thinking of is the Houston Headsman who decapitated 3 women in 1979. He also shot and killer one of the women's boyfriend.

Thank you! I will definitely be looking at these guys, esp. the later. So there is historical foundation for the story I was told. How scary. I know that I have never had such an overwhelming feeling of evil. It was like having a lead balloon settle over my room. The manager was very frightened. The security guy, who I think may have been her husband, was a big, tough biker-type. He put the word out that if anyone was even seen near my window or my apt. he would "rip them apart."

This event made standing at the bus stop at 5 am a scary routine, until I finally got my car.

Thanks, Stan.