kennedy assassination

[dougie]

who knows?

all i do know is that that shot to the head didnt come from that rifle up in the book depository, regardless of whether he was involved or not.

Joel, hi, can you say what your reasons are for thinking that?
regards

[Graham]

In today's 'Sunday Times' there is an article concerning that famous photo from the Spanish Civil War depicting a soldier at the very instant that he was shot. Obviously the shot came from in front of him, and his whole body is being projected backwards. (The article is concerning whether or not this photo is a fake - apparently it isn't).

In the Zapruder Film, JFK's head is clearly shown jerking forwards first, and then, fractionally later, backwards. OK, the 'jerking forward' is clearly the result of a shot from the rear, but what about the 'jerking back'? I was never really comfortable about Oswald being the lone assassin, in spite of what I posted previously.
Let's just say that I want Oswald to be the lone assassin, but I can't quite convince myself that he was.

Graham

[joelhall]

certainly.

ive shot plenty of rifles for the last 16 years, including my fair share of head shots (not to a person before you ask though one of two friends have some experience with that whilst serving).

ive enough experience to know the blast & motion of the head just wouldnt happen the way it did, if that bullet came from that window. im not saying oswald is not involved, but theres no way he fired that head shot. im not a fan of the supposed accuracy of him using that rifle either.

[sdreid]

The explosion in the right-front of the President's head, caused by the supersonic shock-wave exit of the projectile as it exits, blows the head back and to the left. A muscle spasm probably exaggerated this movement as well. As has been stated, the head moves slightly forward in the previous frame when the bullet strikes the back of the head. If he was shot from the grassy knoll, the left-rear of his head would have been blown out by the exit. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that a shot came from anywhere but the rear.

[dougie]

Im no expert but,So many many experts in the field say the shots came from the back..only the conspiracy theorists say from the front.....now if it was so obvious and impossible for the shots to have come from anywhere other than the front,how come the shots from behind myth has been allowed to standfor 50 years?Has almost everyone been bribed to say the opposite of the truth? its inconceivable

[joelhall]

The explosion in the right-front of the President's head, caused by the supersonic shock-wave exit of the projectile as it exits, blows the head back and to the left. A muscle spasm probably exaggerated this movement as well. As has been stated, the head moves slightly forward in the previous frame when the bullet strikes the back of the head. If he was shot from the grassy knoll, the left-rear of his head would have been blown out by the exit. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that a shot came from anywhere but the rear.

sorry but no. ive seen the footage & his brains blew out backwards. to the left rear. if you zoom and slow the video you will see this very clearly indeed. the other flaw of course is that the snipers nest was to the rear right of kennedy, not the left. a bullet fast enough to cause that type of head wound at that distance would go on straight, not turn inside the body. the trajectory youre implying would have the bullet coming from main street.

the blast on exit would not cause this to happen either. the stopping power from the bullet throws the head, momentum pulls it. bullets do not speed up when they enter a body to create an effect like this, they are given drag by the body. also, just before, his head tilts down slowly before being thrust back. initial impact has the effect of a powerful punch, the penetration is like thrusting a stick into jelly. the initial impact would certainly cause more movement than this.

[sdreid]

If anyone was shooting from the the front or side, they missed.

[joelhall]

If anyone was shooting from the the front or side, they missed.

front side and down is the only likely origin of this bullet. a bullet from the grassy knoll would maybe just about do it, though i dont think it likely either.

[dougie]

If the shots came from the front,how come there were bullet fragments in the front part of the limousine on the floor?
I cant see how its possible to deny the shots came from the back,when every piece of evidence confirms they did....and no evidence at all shows they came from the front(as Stan says)
regards

[joelhall]

i dont claim that they all came from the front, just that the head shot to jfk could not have come from behind and up. also bullets missing and hitting something solid of the material of these type would fragment, same as they do on bone.

im a very good shot with infantry training. to be sure of a kill on a high-risk target, moving, would be extremely stupid to use just one sniper with a sport rifle and low-cost scope produced then. even more stupid would be to fire that rapid in succession lowering the chances of a kill and giving away your position. if oswald had been a marine i doubt hed make such a simple blunder. i would say at least three snipers would be positioned.

looking at maps and diagrams of the area though, id have probably picked the same location.

i also wonder how oswald planned this? the original route would have made it even more tricky for him. im not one to off presidents, but his choice of position seems very unlikely if he were acting alone.

[dougie]

The "head backsnap".....points to ponder.
In 1975 CBS asked ITEK Corporation a Massachusetts photo optic company to study the zapruder film.They used the most advanced photo analysis techniques etc available at that time. Over several months a staff of dozens of specialists did just that. Among many findings returned to CBS the backward head snap sequence was studied.ITEK proved that BEFORE kennedys head moved backwards it had indeed moved forwards approx 2.3 inches,his shoulders 1.1 inches immediately after the bullet hit its target.Its not visible as such watching the film,but it was proved beyond doubt that that is indeed what happened.John Wolf president of itek told dan rather in a CBS tv broadcast in november 25th 1975 "When the bullet struck ,the presidents head moved forward with extreme speed almost twice as rapidly as it subsequently travelled backwards"
Another point following on from that ,is that not only was kennedys head driven forward.....but also downwards..which would be expected from a shot from the rear and from high up.These results were followed up and confirmed.
Heres another...Larry sturdivan a research wound ballistics scientist at the biophysics laboratory in maryland said this in answer to a questions "Are you troubled by the presidents head being thrown back?" He relied "No the neuromuscular reaction in which the heavy back muscles of a human predominate over the lighter abdominal muscles meant that he (kennedy) would have been thrust backward no matter where the bullet came from ,whether it entered the side back or the front of the head.
Further analysis of frame z313 of the zapruder film shows graphic evidence that the fatal head shot came from the rear.....spray of blood,bone and brain fragments a millisecond after the president was shot goes to the front.
Remember that watching that film in that medium ,approxiametely half of the movements are lost....obviously because cine film from a home movie camera isnt a moving film its a series of static individual frames joined together to give the illusion of movement....there is a lag of course between each frame maybe a fraction of a second ,but none the more for that some data is obviously lost..hence the need for analysis of individual frames to determine what cant be seen from a simple viewing of the movie.
regards

[sdreid]

ive seen the footage & his brains blew out backwards. to the left rear.

bullets do not speed up when they enter a body to create an effect like this, they are given drag by the body.

What?

Who said bullets speed up? The muzzle velocity of the Mannlicher Carcano is about Mach 2 and it only passed though 200' of air and 5" of tissue before it fragmented and exited.

[dougie]

Stan,
As you seem to know a bit about weapons etc.....Isnt it true that a bullet when fired goes a certain distance then begins ,obviously to slow down,but also "wander" a bit..if so any idea at what distance that would occur roughly to a bullet fired from that particular weapon?
I never got a chance when I was in N ireland to measure that kind of thing....I was too busy ducking
regards

[sdreid]

Hi Dougie,

I don't think you'd see any perceptible wandering from a rifle slug at that short a distance. Of course, it would drop a little due to gravity and be pushed to one side or the other by wind if there was any.

[caz]

Hi All,

This reminds me of the royal conspiracy to 'off' MJK in November 1888 in the most public way imaginable.

You'd think, if the JFK conspirators didn't want to leave people convinced that there was a conspiracy, that they would not have had him shot in public and in the full view of the media at all, but would have had him die alone in the woods, as if by his own hand.

Or fixed his lovemobile so it would plunge off a bridge and drown him with his latest piece of fluff.

Love,

Caz
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