kennedy assassination

[Sara]

Further to my post above, and thanbks to whoever posted this Mary Farrell link -
There's a succinct and very 'objective' ie measured summary of the problems regarding the autopsy evidence on http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/inde...tos_and_X-Rays

and also a good number of links to info on this, though I haven't checked them all out yet.

How anyone can even read the first page of Mary Farrell's site and still take the Warren Commission report in the least bit seriously is beyond me Even US official enquiries have trashed it!

[Sara]

And by the way, the medical witnesses at Parkland, the first hospital in Texas to receive the President's body, consistently describe injuries compatible with a frontal wound (specifically most cite a right frontal wound behind the upper ear area), and a sizeable exit wound in the back of the head with protruding brain matter etc, and sections of skull forced back and outwards.

They also cite a tracheal (neck) injury which was ALREADY there when the tracheostomy was performed, and finally they also describe a back/chest bullet wound, which is bourne out by the official photos of the clothes whcih JFK was wearing.

None of this evidence marries with the later depostions given to eg Warren, inc those given by the Bethesda 'official' team (although some broke ranks later in defiance of the secrecy documents they were forced to sign).

See Nurse Hutton's brief and unemotional report:

http://www.jfklancer.com/docs.maps/hutton1.gif

and reports from the doctors attending at Parkside (before the body's removal to Bethesda):

http://www.jfklancer.com/3Patients.html

There is an awful lot of information out there, but it's necessary to get to the accounts of the FIRST people on the scene - whichever part of it - eye-witnesses, etc etc. These often differ markedly from the official accounts; which is why they have taken so long to get into the public domain. The Warren Report in particular was compiled entirely from FBI, CIA and Govt sources. It ignored huge rafts of eyewitness evidence which didn't tally with its own 'findings' - or rather agenda, as some would put it. It even ommited to look into Oswald's CIA and other relevant connections! - which have since been demonstrated

Anything which didn't tally with the preposterous 'magic bullet' and single assassin theories was simply repressed or ignored. I'm amazed that at this point, given all we now know, anyone could still swallow this story

[perrymason]

Some very good points Sara.

The release of the autopsy room photos, the "head" shots, pardon the phrasing....cannot be reconciled with either the images on the Zapruder film, or some of the historical language used to describe his wounds. The man in the Zapruder film had his head nearly blown off...its the reason Jackie tried to climb off the back of the car...she had his brains sprayed on her dress. The wounds were massive. The released photos showed none of that trauma.

I think the reason that people accepted the Warren Commission was partly due to the fact that they were in the beginning of an era where no-one young trusted anything anyone old said....as shown by the speculation the moon landing was faked,...and the Commission knew that. The mainstream would discount many arguments as left wing once a massive looking document was released, showing their "thorough" examination and findings based on tests and expert opinion.

Yet these experts forgot to account for the fact that the Senators seat in front of John Kennedy had been moved inwards a few inches, towards the drivers seat, to allow the President to easily step in and out of the backseat....that few inches addresses the magic bullet problem.

Happy New Years folks.

[Phryne Fisher]

Well, dougie, I bought "Four Days in November" (a shortened version of "Reclaiming History" apparently) today. I'll let you know if Bugliosi convinces me to drop me conspiracist ways

[Phryne Fisher]

Hmm

It appears young dougie has left us. Why wasn't I told?

I agree, dougie-that-was and anyone else who cares; Bugliosi's book is meticulously cross-referenced.

But I still don't believe him.

He meticulously cross-references the facts that support HIS theory, but completely ignores any facts or points of interest that don't support his point of view.

Just like the conspiracists, really

And his writing style is bloody annoying. He's obviously trying to create the old "vivid present" mood by writing about these ancient events in the present tense, and that would be fine; indeed, an admirable literary device; if he'd only show some goddamned consistency of style. He's all over the place like a mad woman's breakfast: present; past; present; present; past: sometimes all in the same fricken sentence.

Nuh, yer Bugliosi's just an annoying bug.

Now do please come back and fight with me, oh un-punctuated and un-capitalised dougie.

Meanwhile I'll be getting on with "Brothers" by David Talbot and "Johnny, we hardly knew Ye" by Ken O'Donnell and Dave Powers

[sdreid]

Dougie has been given the boot from what I hear. He's over on JTRForums.

I'm in the process of watching JFK right now, it's on both sides of the DVD so I viewed the first half last evening and plan to see side B tonight. It's basically a squandered opportunity. As entertainment, it's OK.

[Phryne Fisher]

I'm in the process of watching JFK right now, it's on both sides of the DVD so I viewed the first half last evening and plan to see side B tonight. It's basically a squandered opportunity. As entertainment, it's OK.

Yes, I should have a look at that meself. I've read the Garrison book (and I've also read lots of comments about Garrison being a loony but then, they would say that, wouldn't they?) and I'd be interested to see how it translated to the screen. Do give us a report when you've watched the rest, SD.

The Mary Meyer stuff's very interesting . For anyone who hasn't come across her in their reading, she was one of JFK's mistresses, and apparently introduced him to LSD and pot, because "She wanted to turn on the Washington power structure in the interests of world peace" (Brothers). There's a very funny passage a bit later on:

"Kennedy smoked three [joints] before they finally took effect. As he closed his eyes and let the reefer carry him away, he mused dreamily, 'Suppose the Russians did something now.' " Norty Prez!

Anyhoo, she died a few months after JFK's assassination - shot in the head and chest while walking along beside a canal near her home. They never did find out whodunit

[sdreid]

Actually, the second half of JFK is sort of boring.

[jason_c]

Here's a link to a site that debunks many of the conspiracy theories, this page deals with the medical evidence.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/medical.htm

[jimarilyn]

A prophetic pointer ??

About 12 hours before the assassination in Dallas, page 11 of the Daily Express made extremely fascinating (and disturbing) reading.

An ironic twist of fate or something more sinister ???

Did the writer of that article know something was in the offing ?

[sdreid]

That "rifle" looks like a shotgun to me unless he purloined it from a carnival.

Too bad Goldwater didn't win. We wouldn't have negotiated an armistice in Vietnam.

"In your heart, you know he's right." AuH2O

[rain]

When I lived in the USA (from 1976 to 1980) JFK was still somewhat revered as 'the best president America ever had', and so forth. In particular, and obviously, he was still seen as the man who faced down the Soviet Union.
I can recall having debates as to whether Kennedy would have taken the USA into Vietnam on the massive scale that Johnson did.

Is JFK still thought of in this way? Is he thought of at all?

Cheers,

Graham

Many people in the US believe that Kennedy did not want the war in Viet Nam to continue on but Johnson would do what ever the military wanted.

Here is a version of the Zapruder film that contains slow motion film.

It is graphic so I must warn people that is they don't like to see violence to not watch it.

But I have watched it and it is obvious that Kennedy was shot from the front especially the first time.

Again, do not watch this if violence upsets you.

My apologies if this film has already been posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E66__vymfPA

[Graham]

Hi Rain,

it's a long time since I watched the Zapruder Film. It's sobering and numbing.

I think that the first (and maybe a second) shot came from the rear of the car just as JFK's head was blanked out by the road-sign, but there can't be any doubt that a subsequent shot came from the front, and to JFK's right.
Governor Wallace (who had been hit by one of the 'rear' shots, definitely looks to his right slightly before JFK's head explodes). And Jackie K reaches over to the rear of the car to retrieve a portion of JKF's skull that had been blown off backwards. (Even thinking about this is still sickening, even after 46years...) I just cannot understand how anyone could have insisted that all the shots were from behind. The US Government must have had big reasons to stick to the lone-assassin scenario...I guess that for them to admit to there being more than one gunman would be tantamount to accepting some kind of organised operation. I suppose that a lone nutter comes across better to the official mind at such times than a closely-worked plan involving two or more persons on-the-spot, so to speak. It's like claiming that the assassination of Tsar Nicholas II and his entire family was the work of some lone nut...

Still chilling. Still gripping. Still one of the 20th century's paramount mysteries as far as I'm concerned.

Graham

[sdreid]

All shots from the rear - no question.

[rain]

Hi Rain,

it's a long time since I watched the Zapruder Film. It's sobering and numbing.

I think that the first (and maybe a second) shot came from the rear of the car just as JFK's head was blanked out by the road-sign, but there can't be any doubt that a subsequent shot came from the front, and to JFK's right.
Governor Wallace (who had been hit by one of the 'rear' shots, definitely looks to his right slightly before JFK's head explodes). And Jackie K reaches over to the rear of the car to retrieve a portion of JKF's skull that had been blown off backwards. (Even thinking about this is still sickening, even after 46years...) I just cannot understand how anyone could have insisted that all the shots were from behind. The US Government must have had big reasons to stick to the lone-assassin scenario...I guess that for them to admit to there being more than one gunman would be tantamount to accepting some kind of organised operation. I suppose that a lone nutter comes across better to the official mind at such times than a closely-worked plan involving two or more persons on-the-spot, so to speak. It's like claiming that the assassination of Tsar Nicholas II and his entire family was the work of some lone nut...

Still chilling. Still gripping. Still one of the 20th century's paramount mysteries as far as I'm concerned.

Graham

In this interview Governor Connally says he heard a shot turned around and saw that Kennedy was shot and then he (Connally) was shot. This disproves the magic bullet scenario.

I suspect they made him change his testimony.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP04_lGjkO0