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  • #46
    Hi Irelands' Own and welcome to the discussion group.

    If those items were rebutted or other evidence developed it did not lead to a murder indictment after the grand jury met in in 1999.

    Originally posted by Irelandsown37 View Post
    The mystery DNA in JonBenet's underpants could have gotten there at any time, not just on the night of the murder.
    There was unidentified DNA on the underparts the police already had. This is new DNA, found on another piece of clothing she was also wearing at the time, the longjohns, which is long thermal underwear.

    Quoting the press release by the District Attorney's office:

    "The Bode Technology laboratory applied the “touch DNA” scraping method to both sides of the waist area of the long johns that JonBenet Ramsey was wearing over her underwear when her body was discovered. These sites were chosen because evidence supports the likelihood that the perpetrator removed and/or replaced the long johns, perhaps by handling them on the sides near the waist.

    On March 24, 2008, Bode informed us that they had recovered and identified genetic material from both sides of the waist area of the long johns. The unknown male profile previously identified from the inside crotch area of the underwear matched the DNA recovered from the long johns at Bode.

    We consulted with a DNA expert from a different laboratory, who recommended additional investigation into the remote possibility that the DNA might have come from sources at the autopsy when this clothing was removed. Additional samples were obtained and then analyzed by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation to assist us in this effort. We received those results on June 27th of this year and are, as a result, confidant that this DNA did not come from innocent sources at the autopsy. As mentioned above, extensive DNA testing had previously excluded people connected to the family and to the investigation as possible innocent sources.

    The unexplained third party DNA on the clothing of the victim is very significant and powerful evidence. It is very unlikely that there would be an innocent explanation for DNA found at three different locations on two separate items of clothing worn by the victim at the time of her murder. This is particularly true in this case because the matching DNA profiles were found on genetic material from inside the crotch of the victim’s underwear and near the waist on both sides of her long johns, and because concerted efforts that might identify a source, and perhaps an innocent explanation, were unsuccessful."


    From the press release (click here)

    Again, welcome,

    Roy
    Sink the Bismark

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Roy Corduroy View Post
      Hi Irelands' Own and welcome to the discussion group.

      If those items were rebutted or other evidence developed it did not lead to a murder indictment after the grand jury met in in 1999.



      There was unidentified DNA on the underparts the police already had. This is new DNA, found on another piece of clothing she was also wearing at the time, the longjohns, which is long thermal underwear.

      Quoting the press release by the District Attorney's office:

      "The Bode Technology laboratory applied the “touch DNA” scraping method to both sides of the waist area of the long johns that JonBenet Ramsey was wearing over her underwear when her body was discovered. These sites were chosen because evidence supports the likelihood that the perpetrator removed and/or replaced the long johns, perhaps by handling them on the sides near the waist.

      On March 24, 2008, Bode informed us that they had recovered and identified genetic material from both sides of the waist area of the long johns. The unknown male profile previously identified from the inside crotch area of the underwear matched the DNA recovered from the long johns at Bode.

      We consulted with a DNA expert from a different laboratory, who recommended additional investigation into the remote possibility that the DNA might have come from sources at the autopsy when this clothing was removed. Additional samples were obtained and then analyzed by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation to assist us in this effort. We received those results on June 27th of this year and are, as a result, confidant that this DNA did not come from innocent sources at the autopsy. As mentioned above, extensive DNA testing had previously excluded people connected to the family and to the investigation as possible innocent sources.

      The unexplained third party DNA on the clothing of the victim is very significant and powerful evidence. It is very unlikely that there would be an innocent explanation for DNA found at three different locations on two separate items of clothing worn by the victim at the time of her murder. This is particularly true in this case because the matching DNA profiles were found on genetic material from inside the crotch of the victim’s underwear and near the waist on both sides of her long johns, and because concerted efforts that might identify a source, and perhaps an innocent explanation, were unsuccessful."


      From the press release (click here)

      Again, welcome,

      Roy
      Thank-you, Roy, for the welcome and for the DNA clarification. I have only read one book on this case thus far, but admit to being fascinated by it. I do find one thing very strange in this case... Apparently Patsy found JonBenet's bedroom door closed that morning - I find it curious someone would take the time to close her door while trying to carry a sleeping/stun-gunned child in their arms. The intruder may have gone back to her room and closed the door after, but how much time would they be willing to spend walking around undetected by sleeping parents?

      You also mentioned there was evidence the intruder came through a window and walked through the room where JonBenet was found... after looking at crime scene pictures I thought that little windowless wine cellar room was in a remote corner of the basement and fairly hidden from the alleged window with the suitcase under it. Please correct me if this is not accurate.

      Thanks again for the welcome.

      Comment


      • #48
        Right on cue ...

        Prepare to be white-anted, Roy.

        Comment


        • #49
          With some dread, the JonBenet case makes me wonder if in all but a few glaringly obvious cases, we can never be 100% certain about the conclusion of a murder investigation.

          Comment


          • #50
            Perhaps it was an intruder but the Ramseys were stupid if they thought they could refuse to take an FBI polygraph and that people wouldn't think otherwise.

            The problem with the intruder theory is that none of it really makes any sense unlike the a Ramsey did it theory.
            This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

            Stan Reid

            Comment


            • #51
              The problem I have with this is that there are so many logical contradictions involved in an intruder theory.

              If there was an intruder, and he planned to kidnap her, as evidenced by him sitting in the Ramsey home for several hours, drafting a couple of ransom notes, why didn't he just take her and go out the front door with her? Why take her back down into the basement, where there was no exit, (not while having to push/shove a child through a window above your head) when he could have just walked out a door on the main level?

              If the intruder didn't ever plan to kidnap her, just drag her to the basement and assault her there, why did he spend all that time drafting a kidnap note?

              It just makes no sense at all. And while I completely understand that human behavior often defies sense, either way, the intruder, for being supposedly rational enough to stake out and wait cool-bloodedly in a home for hours, while the parents are away, while the parents come home prepare for bed, drafting and revising ransom notes, to then just completely go unhinged? Doesn't make sense.
              Last edited by Ally; 05-10-2010, 12:11 AM.

              Let all Oz be agreed;
              I need a better class of flying monkeys.

              Comment


              • #52
                Hello you all!

                Well, I cannot make a comparison;

                there are still people, who believe in the intruder-story of Jeff McDonald (The Fatal Vision case!)

                All the best
                Jukka
                "When I know all about everything, I am old. And it's a very, very long way to go!"

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by ChainzCooper
                  Hey Tom,
                  I would love to hear your thoughts on the case as you seem to be knowledgeable about it and I don't know a great deal about it.
                  Thanks,
                  Jordan
                  Hi Jordan, good to hear from you. You're correct in that I do know a lot about the case, unfortunately it's probably more than Roy or Jonathan would want to hear, so I think I'm going to lay low on this one.

                  Yours truly,

                  Tom Wescott

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Tom,
                    Ok, but I mean this is a forum where all thoughts are supposed to be welcome considering its an unsolved case right? I would love to hear your opinion.
                    Jordan

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Hi Jordan,

                      Yes, you're absolutely right about it being a forum of free exchange. I'm just finding myself more annoyed by ignorance as of late so am choosing to be more selective in my battles. Regarding the Ramsey case, it is beyond dispute that the weight of the evidence points to an inside job and precludes an intruder, so either JonBenet was not murdered at all, but accidentally killed and the rest was a cover-up to indicate an intruder; or she was murdered by her mother, Patsy.

                      Yours truly,

                      Tom Wescott

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Tom,
                        Ok but if you reconsider just let me know. I'm willing to listen.
                        Jordan

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          To Jordan

                          You're being misled. There is nothing substantial forthcoming.

                          As usual, Tom is holding a weak hand, one which he unfairly and arrogantly blames on me and Roy -- the utter bastards -- for not revealing.

                          Well, he has to have some excuse, however lame, for why he would conceal from you his great knowledge and wisdom of this case.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
                            Hi Jordan,

                            Yes, you're absolutely right about it being a forum of free exchange. I'm just finding myself more annoyed by ignorance as of late so am choosing to be more selective in my battles. Regarding the Ramsey case, it is beyond dispute that the weight of the evidence points to an inside job and precludes an intruder, so either JonBenet was not murdered at all, but accidentally killed and the rest was a cover-up to indicate an intruder; or she was murdered by her mother, Patsy.

                            Yours truly,

                            Tom Wescott
                            After reading many articles I came to pretty much the same conclusion... with the District Attorney's office stonewalling the police investigation by running interference for Team Ramsey lawyers. I guess having deep pockets helps.. as per the OJ Simpson debacle.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              The unknown male DNA found in the underpants was was discussed in this 2006 article, which was before the new development. (click here)

                              Of it, this was said -

                              "Another view of the DNA in JonBenet's underpants has been offered by the prosecutor who ran the original grand jury investigation into the murder that yielded no indictments when it was ended in 1999.

                              Michael Kane conjectured in 2002 that the male DNA in JonBenet's underwear might not be critical evidence and could have been left at the time of the clothing's manufacture."


                              But that theory no longer holds water.

                              Because the same unknnown male DNA has now been found on another piece of clothing the victim was also wearing at the time, the long johns. (2008 click here)

                              There have been different District Attorneys over time. And someone said Mary Lacy, who was DA in 2008 when this new discovery was made, is biased. But that's irrelevant, isn't it. This is science.

                              That's all I was trying to point out here. New evidence.

                              Roy
                              Sink the Bismark

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Uhm....ok dont know really what to say...I wasn't really looking for great knowledge just another perspective. Theres no need to get into arguments we can agree to disagree on here can't we?

                                Comment

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