Madeleine McCann

[anna]

Oh boy!Only Maria could say that there wasn't anything suspicious about this crime......and a couple of others who find it hard,for some strange reason,to see this too.One gets to be insulting....when you can see what you think is right,proved wrong,some people react like this.
Maria,I didn't say the body was in the apartment block...I said they took walks there on a regular basis,even though they said they knew nobody in the area.
So far,you have pulled about the details of the case,to fit your purpose,yet fail to explain the discrepancies,basically,because you can't...so they don't exist.
I think you would have made a great lawyer....
I have nothing further to add on the subject,unless someone comes up with some answers.
Bestest,
ANNA.

[Maria]

Anna:

I go for walks to help me unwind from stress and breath fresh air and I hardly know anyone from around here, I sometimes meet someone walking their dog but other than that, I walk for miles without encountering anyone. Having a walk is not suspicious, having a walk near an apartment is not what I would call suspicious either. So what exactly were you driving at with this comment of walking past an apartment quite frequently as being part of the things to look for as suspicious ?

Anna, I do not have any " purpose " I´m simply unconvinced by gossip, hearsay and ennuendo, which does not constitute proof. You need to have tangible proof to convince me and even the police had to admit to the McCann´s that they did not have any and this is why their status as arguidos or suspects was lifted.

Maria

[anna]

Hi Maria,

I have only typed what was happening at the time.....this was just among the things that were being looked at,and are not anything in my personal thoughts.
I am only the messenger,as the saying goes.I agree with you,that you can take regular walks to a certain location without there being any specific purpose to it.
Excuse this,but I am going to have to go back to the thread to see what else was in your post.
I am quite unwell today..I have arthritis in my back and I am typing this lying down,as I can't get up.I am in terrible pain with siatica..I think that is how you spell it...which is like having continual pins and needles running down the tops of both my legs...due to the damp weather.I have taken tablets..but if for any reason I don't answer you,please do not be offended..it is because I have fallen asleep,or cannot move enough to reach for my laptop.
Warmest Regards,
ANNA.

[anna]

Sorry love,the next part of your post,

I know,like me, you do not have any "purpose" behind your post....

We have been having a very good discussion about the situation of this crime,like we can look at and discuss Jack in the same way.
I went to have a look at what it was all about,as I was interested by something you posted,remember?

I will try to reply to you,if you wish,but if it is slow,you know it is not because I don't want to,but because I can't at that moment.

ANNA.x

[Bob Hinton]

Not this old chestnut again!

First of all let me start my clearing up a really hoary old chestnut. There is no such concept in English law as ‘innocent until proven guilty’. Many people, including experienced barristers, make the same mistake by omitting the vital word ‘presumed’. The tenet is that a suspect is ‘presumed to be innocent until proven guilty’. This places the emphasis on the state proving guilt, not the accused proving innocence.

It is held as a matter of law that this maxim “ is not considered evidence of the defendant's innocence” in other words just because evidence has not been found it does not mean a person is innocent.

There is often confusion about what the duties of a jury or a bench of magistrates are. It is not for the jury or the magistrates to decide guilt or innocence; their sole duty is to decide whether the prosecution has proved guilt ‘ beyond a reasonable doubt’. If they have then the verdict is ‘guilty’ if not the verdict is ‘not guilty’ – not ‘innocent’. Just because you have been acquitted doesn’t make you innocent!

There has been a lot of discussion on the thread about the smell or absence of smell in a car that was not hired until some time after the disappearance. This is not such a mystery.

Let us take a hypothetical case of a body being disposed of. The body is wrapped in some form of covering such as a large beach towel or shower curtain. The body is transported in a conveyance such as a trolley, wheeled suitcase or wheelie bin to be buried in one of the many holes and building works in the vicinity. The body is unwrapped and all clothing taken away to hinder identification and the body buried. The clothing and wrapping is returned to the flat where it is washed.

Several days later the wrapping is carried in a car. The death odour would transfer from the body to the wrapping, and later from the wrapping to the car. Don’t forget these dogs can detect the odour even if an item has been washed. Not such a big mystery really.

[caz]

...Coming from a doctor´s family, I know the sacrifices doctors have to do for others, we understood as children that Dad could not be for our birthdays nor Christmas if he had to attend a patient. We always thought that a person´s life was more important and always came first before a selfish party.

I admire and respect my father, my sister, my aunt and all our friends who are doctors would think of nothing to leave a holiday to attend someone who needed them...

...By becoming a doctor you make an oath to save lives, not to cover-up murders, that is completely against the grain...

Oh the cruel irony.

I wonder what the difference is if it’s a little person’s life and the selfish party is at a tapas bar?

This pair of doctors thought nothing of leaving the little someone who needed them most, so they could attend to their holiday.

And Maria knows of no doctors who have ever been convicted of murder, manslaughter or perverting the course of justice? And she expects anyone to take her posts seriously?

I wonder if she is still sticking to her story that Kate gave the children Calpol, despite Gerry claiming otherwise? Because if she is, she now knows of at least one doctor who thought nothing of lying about what medicine was or wasn’t given to their children before one went missing.

Love,

Caz
X

[claire]

Maria, I wish I had your faith in people...there have been too many cases of doctors who have killed their nearest and dearest. Unfortunately, the medical profession, like the military and the police, often attracts those who are there for the wrong reasons. Not saying this is necessarily the case here, but unfortunately, making claims for the innocence of folk on the basis of their being doctors isn't really accurate.

[Maria]

Anna:

Oh dear ! Siatica is really painful, I have had that many, many years ago and it was cured with an injection of vitamin B. What it is, is that the spine is protected with a layer of this vitamin and through stress or nervous tension, the stocks are depleted so the pain sets in. After my injection the pain disappeared like a miracle. You can also have vitamin B orally every day and you will see a marked improvement. You should go and see your doctor since it could also be lack of calcium. I do not know how old you are Anna but I was having arthritic pains in all my joints just like you and as my GP here could not find anything wrong with me, I flew to Spain where they did a whole battery of tests and they found out that I had low calcium in my bones and that I had a broken knee, an exterior reticula which I needed to have an operation done. I was also told that if I did not have calcium tablets every day, I was heading to an osteoporosis. So I started swallowing the calcium tablets every day and the pain disappeared, including the pain in the knee which now feels so good, I decided I did not need an operation. Just in case, drink calcium pills every day plus the vitamin B and see if this does the trick. Please get some rest and be well soon Anna and do not worry about anything ! unless you have a million pounds invested in a failed bank.

Lots of love,

Maria

[Maria]

Maria, I wish I had your faith in people...there have been too many cases of doctors who have killed their nearest and dearest. Unfortunately, the medical profession, like the military and the police, often attracts those who are there for the wrong reasons. Not saying this is necessarily the case here, but unfortunately, making claims for the innocence of folk on the basis of their being doctors isn't really accurate.

Claire:

So you think to become a doctor the motivation is always for the wrong reasons ? I see...it is a good job I decided not to follow in my father´s footsteps then, but he became an inspiration to me when my husband´s kidneys failed and the hospital was 50 miles away plus another 50 miles back which for a very ill person to travel it is just too far.

I thought of my father like this " I´m the daughter of a doctor I have to have it in me to learn to do the haemo-dialysis for my husband, I asked to be trained, at the hospital. It involved having to insert two 1 and a half inch thick needles slowly without braking the walls of his veins otherwise the blood would be like a tap shooting up to the ceiling. The veins unlike the needles are not straight, so it is not easy to do this, not even general qualified nurses can do this, only the ones who are working specially for this dialysis units. but I had to assume the responsability of looking after my husband without having the benefit of a hospital back-up if things went wrong, like the day when my husband fell asleep and moved the needle; all the alarms of the machine were ringing and the machine looked like a Christmas tree, my husband was unconscious, the telephone to the hospital was busy, so I had to deal with the crisis all on my own and my guiding inspiration was always my father, telling myself : " I can do this too, I have it within me to find the strengh, the calmness and wisdom to think what to do, and by God I did it ! it was such a terrific feeling when I did it and did it very well too. I thought to myself " I´m a worthy daughter of a doctor in medicine " You do not understand this.

Claire, looking after my husband has been for me the most rewarding thing I have done, as well as looking after my son. I was three years completely on my own, in a country where I knew no one and where foreigners are not welcomed but despised, my triumph was when Peter had his kidney transplant and all is well now; that happened 13 years ago, but my overriding inspiration was always my father, my sister and my aunt who are all doctors in medicine.

Now, can you name this MANY doctors who have killed their nearest and dearest ?

Maria

[Maria]

Oh the cruel irony.

I wonder what the difference is if it’s a little person’s life and the selfish party is at a tapas bar?

This pair of doctors thought nothing of leaving the little someone who needed them most, so they could attend to their holiday.

And Maria knows of no doctors who have ever been convicted of murder, manslaughter or perverting the course of justice? And she expects anyone to take her posts seriously?

I wonder if she is still sticking to her story that Kate gave the children Calpol, despite Gerry claiming otherwise? Because if she is, she now knows of at least one doctor who thought nothing of lying about what medicine was or wasn’t given to their children before one went missing.

Love,

Caz
X

Caz please do not say love to me since I know this is just false coming from you and our past experience, so in future take away that word when you talk to me, it would be more sincere.

Doctors in medicine are also human beings not some robots who do not have holidays. Madeleine was 40 yards away on the same complex as the parents were. You make it look like if they had gone miles and miles away in a car that was not the case. They thought the complex was safe, if they had thought otherwise, then they would not have gone to that place. It was advertised in the brochure as a safe family oriented resort, that is a place where other young families would be staying at. They never imagined that in a place like that the possibility of their daughter being abducted would be the case. No one, not even you can predict the future.

I can relate to this holiday. We had many similar holidays with other doctors families, we travelled together to the same place, but in our case, it was to a private complex that one of of our doctor´s friends owned, who would have a large beautiful place beside the sea. In Latin America we have staff who work in our households and the maids and the nannies would travel with us, and we as children, had strict bedtime hours. Half past eight was bedtime. We were not with our parents. All the doctors were at the main table often discussing medical cases and that´s what they did, discussing new cures which had come up or ideas to improve the hospital like fund raising for more beds, I would often appear without permission to their discussions and my father did not think it appropriate that a young child should hear about difficult cases that they were discussing it simply was a conversation not fit for child.

We played with the children of the other doctors, who themselves went a long way back in their friedship, from when they were studying at medical school and writing to each other when they left for Europe or the U.S. to continue their studies in different specialities, we have never lost touch, despite the years and the distance, they are like an extended family. So not being with your parents when they are in a table having dinner is not unusual. I really do not understand those parents who have their children awake at nine, ten, eleven o´clock late at night and the children are wailing and crying because they are tired and deprived of a decent good night sleep, for me that is what I would consider torture.

Maria

[Maria]

Bob:

So in the McCann´s case you have proved them guilty beyond reasonable doubt then.

It is funny why their status of suspects was lifted in Portugal if they are guilty as you claim.

Could it be that there was no evidence against them ? since that is what the prosecutors wrote in the final report.

So should I believe you or the prosecutors final report ?

Maria

[Bob Hinton]

Maria

Since my remarks were not addressed to you, you may believe what you like!

[Maria]

Bob:

I thought your remarks were addressed to anyone in general. You did not say... this is for everyone, except for Maria. So me, as part of the general public expressed an opinion. Are you saying I´m not allowed an opinion ?

I thought this was a public forum.

Maria

[claire]

Claire:

So you think to become a doctor the motivation is always for the wrong reasons ? I see...it is a good job I decided not to follow in my father´s footsteps then, but he became an inspiration to me when my husband´s kidneys failed and the hospital was 50 miles away plus another 50 miles back which for a very ill person to travel it is just too far.

I thought of my father like this " I´m the daughter of a doctor I have to have it in me to learn to do the haemo-dialysis for my husband, I asked to be trained, at the hospital. It involved having to insert two 1 and a half inch thick needles slowly without braking the walls of his veins otherwise the blood would be like a tap shooting up to the ceiling. The veins unlike the needles are not straight, so it is not easy to do this, not even general qualified nurses can do this, only the ones who are working specially for this dialysis units. but I had to assume the responsability of looking after my husband without having the benefit of a hospital back-up if things went wrong, like the day when my husband fell asleep and moved the needle; all the alarms of the machine were ringing and the machine looked like a Christmas tree, my husband was unconscious, the telephone to the hospital was busy, so I had to deal with the crisis all on my own and my guiding inspiration was always my father, telling myself : " I can do this too, I have it within me to find the strengh, the calmness and wisdom to think what to do, and by God I did it ! it was such a terrific feeling when I did it and did it very well too. I thought to myself " I´m a worthy daughter of a doctor in medicine " You do not understand this.

Claire, looking after my husband has been for me the most rewarding thing I have done, as well as looking after my son. I was three years completely on my own, in a country where I knew no one and where foreigners are not welcomed but despised, my triumph was when Peter had his kidney transplant and all is well now; that happened 13 years ago, but my overriding inspiration was always my father, my sister and my aunt who are all doctors in medicine.

Now, can you name this MANY doctors who have killed their nearest and dearest ?

Maria

Nah, didn't say they always had the wrong motivation; not at all. I said that it happens. It does. Dr. Shipman wasn't an ideal GP, was he? Or Crippen. And not all doctors are as moral as your family members: some years ago, doing some research into prostitution, I found there were quite a lot of GPs in north London paying for services with private prescriptions.

All I was saying, Maria, was that you can't just say, they were doctors, they couldn't be guilty. It's like saying no police officer could be guilty of perverting the course of justice, or the Abu Ghraib abusers couldn't have done it because they were there to protect the country. There are bad apples in most barrels, and the medical profession is not immune.

[caz]

Caz please do not say love to me since I know this is just false coming from you and our past experience, so in future take away that word when you talk to me, it would be more sincere…

…I really do not understand those parents who have their children awake at nine, ten, eleven o´clock late at night and the children are wailing and crying because they are tired and deprived of a decent good night sleep, for me that is what I would consider torture.

Hi Maria,

So you do read at least some of my posts then? Any reason why you droned on and on about your own situation and personal experiences but still not a word about your claim that Kate gave her kids Calpol, even though Gerry categorically denied that they were given anything, effectively making one or both of them liars?

You do have a very unfortunate way of picking your words. The irony just gets worse in your latest twaddle, because Kate admitted that Madeleine had reported to her over breakfast on the last day she was seen alive that she and the twins had been wailing and crying and deprived of a decent night’s sleep - because they woke to find they had been deprived of their mummy.

Instead of reassuring the little girl, Kate not only did it again that very evening, but according to you she dosed the kids up with Calpol this time (presumably in the hope that they would not wake up and make another fuss when they found her gone yet again), and it was the absence of a responsible adult that paved the way for goodness alone knows what further horrors lay in store for Madeleine.

Now that is what I consider torture (and let's hope it wasn't in a literal sense, eh? )

And don’t be so dramatic, you soppy old sausage. I reserve the right to sign off with love after every post, whether I’m writing specifically to you or not (and I wasn’t in the one you quoted), just as you have the right to express views that seem to go from compassionate to cruel in a heartbeat, and are often so illogical and ill-informed they make me rub my eyes in disbelief - until I remind myself of who is posting.

I may heartily dislike or disagree with most of what someone writes, but I can still send my love to them whenever I choose. I would never ask for any in return but if and when it does comes my way I don’t consider it good form to reject it.

Love,

Caz
X