Madeleine McCann

[Jeff Leahy]

the twins should be taken from them and given to parents who have ethics and a conscience and will raise them properly.

No No no No NO. Do you understand anything?

THe twins have a right to a life, they need a life, Madelane is GONE..

THese poor kids have a right to a mother and father..

I wasnt going to postr on this thread again but this comment makes me truely angry..

Why should the twins suffer because of your ignorance..

Leave them alone

Pirate

[anna]

Maria...
I'm not even going to answer your thoughts on my post,as they are not what was posted.
What I will say is this.....

We are on a crime site,where we investigate facts and dissect actions to find an answer,and trust our judgement.If we were to get the same feeling with JTR as some of us have had with this case,we would find it odd that we would just accept it on it's merits and not delve further,nor have suspicions that all was not as it seemed.

I have always said that I do not believe this to be a case of abduction.That is just a gut feeling that I have.

[claire]

,

Claire:

Oh that is a wicked thing to say Claire. Everything failed to that poor little girl the innatenttion of her parents and the police so in a way you are saying that Madeleine deserved her fate.

Maria

Huh??!!! What can I say?! Please learn to read what is there, and not what you want to see. Otherwise, there's zero point in anyone replying to your rants.

[Maria]

No No no No NO. Do you understand anything?

THe twins have a right to a life, they need a life, Madelane is GONE..

THese poor kids have a right to a mother and father..

I wasnt going to postr on this thread again but this comment makes me truely angry..

Why should the twins suffer because of your ignorance..

Leave them alone

Pirate

Pirate you are quite right. It is ignorant comments like this, that make the blood boil.

These are proper respectable people in which a moment of innatention turned out to have their daughter abducted.

Maybe if Kate had gone to check much later, the other two kids would have been taken as well.

The Portuguese final prosecutor´s report said that the McCann´s could not predict that by going to that resort, their children would be in danger. Actually, I did meet someone who asked for a broucher from that same resort the McCann´s stayed at and it is advertised as a very safe place to go for families with children, the brochure does not tell you that in fact four other children have disappeared near there, and the other thing the report said was that the McCann´s did not premeditate Madeleine´s disappearance therefore, their status of arguidos or suspects was LIFTED.

The final Portuguese closed report, was also critical of the police on several counts, one of them being that Praia da Luz its so close to the Spanish border, it was not closed, neither the ferries going out of Praia were stopped for checks.

Maria...
I'm not even going to answer your thoughts on my post,as they are not what was posted.
What I will say is this.....

We are on a crime site,where we investigate facts and dissect actions to find an answer,and trust our judgement.If we were to get the same feeling with JTR as some of us have had with this case,we would find it odd that we would just accept it on it's merits and not delve further,nor have suspicions that all was not as it seemed.

I have always said that I do not believe this to be a case of abduction.That is just a gut feeling that I have.

Anna:

This is where we differ... I need proof not gut feelings. You are not investigating the facts, you are just having " gut feelings " In any crime, you need proofs, you provide none.

Madeleine has disappeared period. At this stage, we do not know whether she is dead or alive, since her body has not been found, this makes it an abduction. Whilst a body has not been discovered it continues to be an abduction.

You cannot prove she is dead.

Those are the merits of this case. Whatever " gut feelings " you may have, these are quite irrelevant and not connected to the true facts of the case. And this was another critizism the Portuguese final report made of the police, that is... they failed to establish whether Madeleine is dead or alive.

Maria

Well, quite. It occurs to me that, in many ways and unfortunately for Madeleine, the McCanns got the investigation they deserved. The fact they cheerfully left their children and couldn't understand why that looked odd to the investigators more or less opened them up to, if not suspicion, at least diminishing sympathies. That, more than anything, delayed or compromised an investigation that many thought (wrongly or otherwise) could lead only one way.

Claire:

Madeleine [B]is [B] a MacCann.

I think it is you who cannot see or understand what you are saying with your stupid comments. And I quote you: " It occurs to me that, in many ways and unfortunately for Madeleine, the McCann´s got the investigation they deserved. "

Madeleine IS a McCann. Remember ?

So you are saying that poor Maddie deserved the botched investigation. Think before you write if you can manage that.

Maria

[Maria]

Huh??!!! What can I say?! Please learn to read what is there, and not what you want to see. Otherwise, there's zero point in anyone replying to your rants.

I now think you are simply just too dumb to grasp your own words !

Maria

[cappuccina]

no Maria, the McCanns are...

...NOT proper, respectable people, they are felony child neglectors, child abusers, and possibly murderers.

They left three babies alone at night so they could go out and get fVcking piss-assed drunk.

Kate McCann is a terrible mother. She quit her job as a physician ostensibly to "stay home with the twins" and now sends them to daycare 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. She is a no-good, spoiled layabout. This is AFTER HER OLDEST CHILD GOES MISSING AND IS NEVER FOUND WHILE SHE IS ON HOLIDAY BECAUSE SHE CHOSE TO LEAVE HER AND THE TWO OTHER BABIES ALONE SO SHE COULD GO OUT AND GET DRUNK NIGHT AFTER NIGHT AFTER NIGHT.

In the United States, the McCanns would have AT LEAST temporarily lost custody of their kids and would have been jailed.

It is customary here to place them in custody of relatives unless the relatives were unfit, so, Pirate Jack, get over yourself...the twins would have been placed with an aunt and uncle or grandparents...

The twins deserve not to live with alcoholic, abusive and neglectful parents, and possibly worse, for I am not sure that Kate McCann did not accidentally murder her daughter during a "temper fit". The twins need to be removed from the McCann home immediately.

The parents are disgraceful and unfit. Period.

[Bob Hinton]

Not unforseeable!

I find it remarkable that there are still some people who keep talking about the McCanns momentary lack of judgement. Leaving the children alone while they went out was not an isolated case it was a regular occurrence. This alone moves it from an accident or unforeseeable to the realms of neglect.

If the McCanns had on a single isolated instance, popped out for a quick drink with friends, then that would have been foolish but not culpable.

However this was not the case here. Indeed there are witnesses who speak of Madeline tearfully asking her mother where she was the previous night on the very morning of the day she went missing. This shows that not only was it a regular event but that the children were distressed by this habit.

Imagine you are trapped in the top storey of a house that is on fire. You decide to lower your child out of the top window on a rope. The rope breaks and the child is killed. However even though you were doing something dangerous, an excuse could be found. But if it was your regular habit to lower the child out of the window on a rope and the same thing happens, there is no excuse.

My deepest regret is in this case as in so many others, the innocent suffer for the actions of the unscrupulous.

[claire]

Claire:

Madeleine [B]is [B] a MacCann.

I think it is you who cannot see or understand what you are saying with your stupid comments. And I quote you: " It occurs to me that, in many ways and unfortunately for Madeleine, the McCann´s got the investigation they deserved. "

Madeleine IS a McCann. Remember ?

So you are saying that poor Maddie deserved the botched investigation. Think before you write if you can manage that.

Maria

One. If you want to advocate for these people, learn to spell their surname. Two. If you had a basic grasp of English, you'd note the convention that, for the purposes of the discussion, 'the McCanns' refers to the two parents in this case. The fact that I referred to Madeleine separately indicates that I wasn't including her in the phrase 'the McCanns.' Otherwise, every time anyone here used that phrase, do you imagine that they were referring to each and every McCann on the planet?

Lastly, and I really can't be bothered quoting your offensive little message, please don't assume that everyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid or, what was your phrase? 'Dumb.' Maria, understand this: I don't agree with you. Many people do not agree with you. If you are the sort of person who believes small children should be left alone while their parents go off and get drunk, then I pity you. And I will never, ever agree with you. But I am neither stupid nor dumb, and I'd appreciate it if you understood that you don't get to come on here and throw insults at people who don't share your limited point of view.

[Maria]

Claire:

I´m sorry I should not have said dumb or whatever it was that has offended you, I do find this subject is highly emotional for everyone and we are calling each other names that normally we would not tell each other in person.

I think everyone has already made up their mind on what they believe, so it is really pretty pointless in trying to convince one another.

For what its worth, Madeleine has the same surname as her parents so your saying that the McCann´s deserved the investigation they got,was pretty horrible and thoughtless, I think the little girl deserved better.

And no. I do not believe little children should be left alone but you have to bear in mind that even little children who are with their parents sometimes come to harm, like the other little girl in Praia da Luz where she was abducted from her bedroom when she slept, whilst her mother was in the kitchen.

Anyway... enough is enough

Maria

[Limehouse]

Although I do not believe for one minute that the McCanns disposed of their daughter or were involved in her abduction, I do think they were very foolish to leave their children alone. Abduction is an extreme outcome of such behaviour, but didn't they think about illness, nightmares, fire, a child wandering out of the building and falling into a swimming pool or getting knocked down by a car? Any of those things could have resulted in a dead or injured child or children in a very short space of time.

[Jeff Leahy]

...NOT proper, respectable people, they are felony child neglectors, child abusers, and possibly murderers.

Do you have any evidence for this claim? No you do NOT.

I would NOT have left my kids alone like this, but to put two and two together and come up with five on such a sensitive subject is just ignorance. They were wrong to leave their kids, they will have to live with that for the rest of their lives..but you simply have NO evidence of abuse or murder, so I'm not getting over myself, i'm telling you to stop blabbing and contact your brain before you open your mouth.

Kate McCann is a terrible mother. She quit her job as a physician ostensibly to "stay home with the twins" and now sends them to daycare 5 days a week for 8 hours a day. She is a no-good, spoiled layabout. This is AFTER HER OLDEST CHILD GOES MISSING AND IS NEVER FOUND WHILE SHE IS ON HOLIDAY BECAUSE SHE CHOSE TO LEAVE HER AND THE TWO OTHER BABIES ALONE SO SHE COULD GO OUT AND GET DRUNK NIGHT AFTER NIGHT AFTER NIGHT.

In the United States, the McCanns would have AT LEAST temporarily lost custody of their kids and would have been jailed.

It is customary here to place them in custody of relatives unless the relatives were unfit, so, Pirate Jack, get over yourself...the twins would have been placed with an aunt and uncle or grandparents...

The twins deserve not to live with alcoholic, abusive and neglectful parents, and possibly worse, for I am not sure that Kate McCann did not accidentally murder her daughter during a "temper fit". The twins need to be removed from the McCann home immediately.

The parents are disgraceful and unfit. Period.

Like it or not we all have are the parents we were born with, we cant do much about that...the majority of children are best off with their natural parents. FACT.

I say that taking these children away from their parents would be TRUE ABUSE, statistically the natural mother and father of children in family environments are the least likely people to abuse or hurt them.Why would you wont to hurt these kids more?

You seem like the sort of person who is quick to judge others you know nothing about.

I have long been convinced that Maddie is dead..

I just hope that the twins can have some sort of life and I know that the best way for them to get that life is with the parents that they love..to break them from those they love to gratify some sorry vendetta/grudge you seem to have would be a terrible terrible crime..

It always makes me wonder when people like you make these awful claims, are you concealing some personal guilt?

I just thank every day that I've still got my baby, well she's fifteen now, but I dont think I could live if anything like this happened to her...I feel sick just imagining how i'd feel...

Just leave the twins alone. Hasnt life dealt them a bad enough hand without people like you making these terrible claims..

The twins need Mum and Dad....not a state care home..I mean look at Jersey..you think they're safer there...HOG WASH AND PIFFAL

Pirate

[anna]

Hi all,
It is easy,as Maria says,to get emotional over this case.Especially if you are a parent.
On the night in question,the McCanns were tipped as frontrunners to win an IQ contest,held around the pool,hosted by a woman who joined them at their table afterwards,just before the "discovery" that Maddie was missing.
I think it is safe to say that the reason why they left the children was to massage their own ego's,and not for the sole purpose of getting drunk.
The only thing I would say is this:
I sat on the fence in the beginning because I thought,oh well,people make mistakes...although I felt also that something just weren't right.I kept that feeling for some time....as there was nothing I could really put my finger on to sway me totally in one direction or other.
Then a major mistake was made...
There was vagueness on the McCanns part,which you could put down to emotion or shock,and partly excuse it.But when the Tappas 7 did it,THEN it became very suspicious...not really because their stories didn't match,but because there is a whole bunch of doctors who,like the police,are "on duty" 24/7.
That means they have a heightened awareness towards being able to give an accurate account of things around,and their own actions.Just incase they have to account for them.....which they did.....and couldn't.
We can discuss every other aspect of that night,leaving babies,drinking etc..but just that one fact alone,puts a question mark in my mind.

[cappuccina]

Pirate Jack...

...you did not read what I said...In the US, the twins would have BEEN PUT WITH RELATIVES FIRST, UNLESS ALL THE RELATIVES WERE DEEMED UNFIT.

Even Jerry's crazy sister would be better then these drunken liars.

There was evidence of abuse found in the apartment, in addition to the FACT that leaving three babies alone night after night to come into harm's way, and at the very least to cry for their parents for hours is, in fact, child abuse.

The McCanns are terrible, terrible parents, regardless of their "social standing"; you just don't seem to get that.

[Jeff Leahy]

...you did not read what I said...In the US, the twins would have BEEN PUT WITH RELATIVES FIRST, UNLESS ALL THE RELATIVES WERE DEEMED UNFIT.

Even Jerry's crazy sister would be better then these drunken liars.

There was evidence of abuse found in the apartment, in addition to the FACT that leaving three babies alone night after night to come into harm's way, and at the very least to cry for their parents for hours is, in fact, child abuse.

The McCanns are terrible, terrible parents, regardless of their "social standing"; you just don't seem to get that.

Do you really wish me to sift through records of were children have been abused by aunts uncles and cousins...Michelle Collumbia comes to mind first...the statistics speak for themselves..Children are safe with their natural parents.

What evidence of abuse in the apartment? be precise..I've never heard of any such evidence.

I get that even bad parents are sometimes all we get (i was lucky), however Statistics and common sense would suggest that the genetic 'natural' parents are the best thing children can get..it's called LOVE.

Not some 'brave new world' where society knows best..a 'Brazil'..I still say to you sir... Piffal..

Mum and Dad know best where I was bought up...but then I am British. And Proud of it.

and I've discovered this evening that my Aunt has died, she was very close, a LEAHY and PARNELL, an inspirational person, a club scout leader...a person of great knowledge and interlect...I will miss her laugh..a great loss

I've just found out and I'm somewhat up-set. I may be gone from the boards for sometime, I have a family to consider, perhaps see you all later

Peace be with you..dont hurt each other. Jeffx bye

[belinda]

Very sorry about your Aunt