Madeleine McCann

[Abby Normal]

Hi Batman

I'm starting to think there is very little evidence of anything as Maddie was kidnapped by someone who had done it before. Maybe the key to solving the case is to look at suspects in the area at the time, who had both the motivation and knowledge to commit the crime leaving little evidence. However I suspect that whoever did it will never be caught. Unless they are apprehended for something else.

Cheers John

Hi John
as someone who has studied these types of cases for years, I can assure you that any time something like this comes up, there is ALWAYS stories of pedophiles, intruder/burglars, strange people wandering around acting suspicious etc. that pop up when in fact it was a family member. Unfortunately these losers are literally everywhere.

If the McCanns weren't flat out pedophiles who killed their own daughter, then she had some accident that would have implicated the McCanns as negligent.

Theyre stories don't match up, change-they place too much emphasis in "story telling" when giving interviews (classic guilty behavior), including the whole story about the open, or was it broken?!? window. give me a break.

they never shed a tear, hardly ever even show concern about what shes going through NOW, instead focusing on themselves. Lawyer up, refuse to cooperate with police. all guilty 101 stuff.

There is absolutely NO, Zero zilch evidence of an intruder in or around there place.

and the clincher for me. when Kate "realizes" Maddie is missing, admitting she immediately "knew" she had been abducted (why not the more obvious-that she woke up and wandered outside looking for mommy) and that intruders were probably immenant, what does she do? instead protecting the twins-she runs back to the restuarnt leaving the twins alone again and now in harms way? Not a chance in the world an innocent parent would do that.

Theyre guilty as sin.

[Abby Normal]

I think the evidence of the dogs is valid - the fact that they corroborated each other in the location behind the sofa, and the fact that they didn't alert in any other apartment or home, or near any other cars.

Kate has never found anyone to corroborate the story that she had been in contact with no fewer than 6 corpses shortly before her holiday

Kate's actions immediately following her discovery are massive red flags: leaving the twins unattended, IMMEDIATELY assuming and very noisily announcing an abduction rather than the more likely scenario of Madeleine wandering off in search of her parents

The fact that not one but several family members and friends were immediately told the shutters had been smashed or jemmied, which was simply not true

The fact that Kate invented a story about the curtains whooshing up into the air when she opened the door, whereas police crime scene photos showed them very neatly tucked down between the bed and the wall. Did she tuck them in herself before calling police? Or is she making up stories?

Refused a polygraph.

Refused to answer questions.

Immediately sought to dismiss the sniffer dogs evidence instead of being frantic with worry wanting to know if it was true.

As a father there is no way I would've fled the country on being made arguido. I would've stayed and done everything possible to cooperate and clear my name in order to focus police on other suspects. I could never have come home and abandoned what I thought was my missing child.

Hi Henry
Re the dogs. One thing I noticed wasn't mentioned about the dog alerts is that the areas they alerted to, including the car boot, samples were taken and DNA tested and her DNA was matched, although not decively.

So even there are possible concerns about the dogs and DNA, they corroborate each other. To me adding it together, it seems more than likely the dogs and DNA were accurate.

[John Wheat]

Hi John
as someone who has studied these types of cases for years, I can assure you that any time something like this comes up, there is ALWAYS stories of pedophiles, intruder/burglars, strange people wandering around acting suspicious etc. that pop up when in fact it was a family member. Unfortunately these losers are literally everywhere.

If the McCanns weren't flat out pedophiles who killed their own daughter, then she had some accident that would have implicated the McCanns as negligent.

Theyre stories don't match up, change-they place too much emphasis in "story telling" when giving interviews (classic guilty behavior), including the whole story about the open, or was it broken?!? window. give me a break.

they never shed a tear, hardly ever even show concern about what shes going through NOW, instead focusing on themselves. Lawyer up, refuse to cooperate with police. all guilty 101 stuff.

There is absolutely NO, Zero zilch evidence of an intruder in or around there place.

and the clincher for me. when Kate "realizes" Maddie is missing, admitting she immediately "knew" she had been abducted (why not the more obvious-that she woke up and wandered outside looking for mommy) and that intruders were probably immenant, what does she do? instead protecting the twins-she runs back to the restuarnt leaving the twins alone again and now in harms way? Not a chance in the world an innocent parent would do that.

Theyre guilty as sin.

I see what you're saying Abby the only problem I have is that the McCann's are idiots. Still on the other hand so was Fred West and he got away with all sorts for years.

Cheers John

[Batman]

People just love their intruder theories.

As for the CCTV videos being deleted, I suspect that was a fib. I wouldn't be surprised if there were no videos running.

There a night club CCTV that would have been filming one of the streets nearby where people were seen walking. That was deleted over due to recycling the tapes. It was never retrieved in time.

[Batman]

Theyre stories don't match up, change-they place too much emphasis in "story telling" when giving interviews (classic guilty behavior), including the whole story about the open, or was it broken?!? window. give me a break.

Nothing was staged. Why not? If they are going with a break in why not stage it? It's obvious they were hiding something... namely they left the patio door unlocked while away from their kids.

they never shed a tear, hardly ever even show concern about what shes going through NOW, instead focusing on themselves. Lawyer up, refuse to cooperate with police. all guilty 101 stuff.

Not quite so. Jerry was actively answering questions while Kate was under caution. All the answers to her questions are available.

There is absolutely NO, Zero zilch evidence of an intruder in or around there place.

There is a history of intruders going into rooms though. A burglar hoped out the apartment above's window for example. The lack of evidence is also lack of staging.

and the clincher for me. when Kate "realizes" Maddie is missing, admitting she immediately "knew" she had been abducted (why not the more obvious-that she woke up and wandered outside looking for mommy) and that intruders were probably immenant, what does she do? instead protecting the twins-she runs back to the restuarnt leaving the twins alone again and now in harms way? Not a chance in the world an innocent parent would do that.

Theyre guilty as sin.

She screamed all the way back. What was she to do? Sit there and say nothing?

If they leave to go out, then they are abandoning the twins. If they stay, then they are not searching for Maddie.

Why wasn't anything staged? is the question I have.

[Batman]

Hi Henry
Re the dogs. One thing I noticed wasn't mentioned about the dog alerts is that the areas they alerted to, including the car boot, samples were taken and DNA tested and her DNA was matched, although not decively.

So even there are possible concerns about the dogs and DNA, they corroborate each other. To me adding it together, it seems more than likely the dogs and DNA were accurate.

Dog sniffs are not evidence though. They are a statistical hit and miss. Hence why forensics goes in after them to retrieve something... or not. In this case there was nothing. So it's a miss. Pretty sure dog sniffs are not admissible in most court rooms without corresponding forensics.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217863/Bungled-Jersey-child-abuse-probe-branded-20million-shambles.html

Same dog got it wrong elsewhere.

[Abby Normal]

Nothing was staged. Why not? If they are going with a break in why not stage it? It's obvious they were hiding something... namely they left the patio door unlocked while away from their kids.



Not quite so. Jerry was actively answering questions while Kate was under caution. All the answers to her questions are available.



There is a history of intruders going into rooms though. A burglar hoped out the apartment above's window for example. The lack of evidence is also lack of staging.



She screamed all the way back. What was she to do? Sit there and say nothing?

If they leave to go out, then they are abandoning the twins. If they stay, then they are not searching for Maddie.

Why wasn't anything staged? is the question I have.

HI Batman

Nothing was staged. Why not? If they are going with a break in why not stage it?

as I said before the open/broken window is really all the staging they needed.

It's obvious they were hiding something... namely they left the patio door unlocked while away from their kids.

I agree. which is why they probably said at first that they were returning/entering the apartment to check through the locked front door. they didn't want to admit they left the kids alone in an unlocked apartment. when they realized that story wouldn't work, probably because one of the other parents had gone through the unlocked patio door, they changed their story back to the truth on this one.

Not quite so. Jerry was actively answering questions while Kate was under caution. All the answers to her questions are available.

correct. but they both still lawyered up, and why would he talk during the police interview and she wouldn't? maybe because she was the main perpetrator? either way, if your child is missing, and the police are trying to find, why would you refuse to answer any questions? because your guilty of wrongdoing that's why.

There is a history of intruders going into rooms though. A burglar hoped out the apartment above's window for example

so what? as I mentioned theres always stories of other suspicious people and goings ons whenever these types of cases come up.

She screamed all the way back. What was she to do? Sit there and say nothing?

If they leave to go out, then they are abandoning the twins. If they stay, then they are not searching for Maddie.

Any innocent parents first reaction would be to protect the twin babies-scoop them up and get the hell out of there. or stay in the apartment and call for help.
Not run back out leaving her babies alone again in immanent danger.
Cmon.

Why wasn't anything staged? is the question I have

many people think the open window was staged, as do I.

[Abby Normal]

I see what you're saying Abby the only problem I have is that the McCann's are idiots. Still on the other hand so was Fred West and he got away with all sorts for years.

Cheers John

well theyre dumb enough to be responsible for their childs death or abduction so I'm with you there. but they were doctors so they must have a modicum of intelligence.

[Abby Normal]

Dog sniffs are not evidence though. They are a statistical hit and miss. Hence why forensics goes in after them to retrieve something... or not. In this case there was nothing. So it's a miss. Pretty sure dog sniffs are not admissible in most court rooms without corresponding forensics.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217863/Bungled-Jersey-child-abuse-probe-branded-20million-shambles.html

Same dog got it wrong elsewhere.

no I agree. the dog evidence is questionable. but look-theyre were two dogs, one blood one cadaver-they both alerted. And the main thing here is that there was also positive DNA to the places they alerted.

to me the chances are that they corroborate each other to some extant.

[Batman]

They didn't answer the questions formally because they layered up after they were told that Gonçalo Amaral figured they were involved. If you read anything about his book it becomes clear he wasn't in the business of helping them find an intruder and just based on his book alone, he is getting a lot wrong. Like the Tapas sighting, since confirmed by Operation Grange. They found the creche parent carrying the child. So the people he says concocted this story, didn't. It was real.

However they did answer all these questions in the media.

I don't buy the argument that there will always be suspicious people anywhere. This place had a lot of problems. It wasn't safe. Crime was rampant. People had gone into bedrooms, stalking in bushes, calling for fundraisers, some of these, never identified.

The McCann's apartment could be seen from their dining table at the Tapas Bar. The McCann's apartment was 77 meters away. That's not a long distance to raise help quickly. 9 people at that bar. 9 helpers instantly.

[Batman]

And the main thing here is that there was also positive DNA to the places they alerted.

But why wouldn't you expect the families DNA to be there?

[Abby Normal]

But why wouldn't you expect the families DNA to be there?

well the DNA corroboarated the dog alert to the boot of the car. one they rented after she went "missing".

[Abby Normal]

They didn't answer the questions formally because they layered up after they were told that Gonçalo Amaral figured they were involved. If you read anything about his book it becomes clear he wasn't in the business of helping them find an intruder and just based on his book alone, he is getting a lot wrong. Like the Tapas sighting, since confirmed by Operation Grange. They found the creche parent carrying the child. So the people he says concocted this story, didn't. It was real.

However they did answer all these questions in the media.

I don't buy the argument that there will always be suspicious people anywhere. This place had a lot of problems. It wasn't safe. Crime was rampant. People had gone into bedrooms, stalking in bushes, calling for fundraisers, some of these, never identified.

The McCann's apartment could be seen from their dining table at the Tapas Bar. The McCann's apartment was 77 meters away. That's not a long distance to raise help quickly. 9 people at that bar. 9 helpers instantly.

Hi

They didn't answer the questions formally because they layered up after they were told that Gonçalo Amaral figured they were involved. If you read anything about his book it becomes clear he wasn't in the business of helping them find an intruder and just based on his book alone, he is getting a lot wrong. Like the Tapas sighting, since confirmed by Operation Grange. They found the creche parent carrying the child. So the people he says concocted this story, didn't. It was real.

what a load of crap (not you-the mccanns)! anyone knows family members and or last one to see or be alone with a victim is going to be a de facto suspect by the police. and even if they are formally suspects, and or continue to be suspects, that's the last thing on your mind-you don't care if your a suspect. you didn't do it, your child is missing, you cooperate as much as you can with the police-to clear yourself and then help them HELP YOU find your child.
parents of missing children BEAT DOWN THE FREAKEN doors of the police to find out and help them find their child.
lawyering up, refusing to cooperate, not answering there questions-classic guilty behavior.
Innocent people don't do these things-guilty people do.

However they did answer all these questions in the media.

you do realize that this is what guilty people do-overwhelmingly-refuse to cooperate fully with police- but give media interviews. it a ploy to get there "story"out, public relations, garner public sympathy.

I don't buy the argument that there will always be suspicious people anywhere. This place had a lot of problems. It wasn't safe. Crime was rampant. People had gone into bedrooms, stalking in bushes, calling for fundraisers, some of these, never identified.

OK well just have to disagree on this one. but its a red herring. these types of stories ALWAYS come up.

The McCann's apartment could be seen from their dining table at the Tapas Bar. The McCann's apartment was 77 meters away. That's not a long distance to raise help quickly. 9 people at that bar. 9 helpers instantly.[/

Nope. this actually the final straw for me in theyre being guilty. I don't care if its the next apartment. no innocent parent would leave the twins their after discovering another child abducted. sorry your wrong on this one.

[Batman]

well the DNA corroboarated the dog alert to the boot of the car. one they rented after she went "missing".

I would expect it there from contamination.

[Batman]

Hi

what a load of crap (not you-the mccanns)! anyone knows family members and or last one to see or be alone with a victim is going to be a de facto suspect by the police.

They had legal advisers telling them that if they talked and incriminated themselves the police could arrest them there and then and they would no longer be able to help maddie. They were told the investigators were not there to help them.

They got the right legal advice. They took the right legal advice. The evidence for this in the book put out by the detective investigating them. His whole book is almost entirely devoted to McCann guilt, based on evidence that has since been refuted by Operation Grange.

Also you are claiming she left them alone to be taken again. Yet how do you know she didn't close/lock the doors behind her for example?

The idea this was staged is exactly what is wrong with it when looking at the evidence. There is no evidence of staging, despite the criticism being that it was staged. They didn't make it look like a break in. Nothing. No window jimmied. No Tapas9 member going inside and saying... my gosh, someone has been in here. It isn't staged and that's the most confounding factor in the idea they staged her vanishing.