Madeleine McCann

[Maria]

Hi Maria, It was most impressive how you managed to spot the signs that Shannon Matthews mother had something to do with what happened to her,well done for that! You have now raised two points that are very interesting. Firstly,the man carrying the child away in a blanket.We did work out that if Jane Tanner had infact been where she said she was she would have bumped into Gerry McCann on the way.But it does raise the question of how friendly were their friends. If I had seen a man carrying away a child I thought might belong to my friend, I would have gone straight to the room to check Maddie was there,before doing anything else.Her child had been left alone by this stage when ill,so a few minutes more would not have mattered.She then sat with her child for the rest of the evening,in a room where the wall she was sitting next to was between her own and the McCanns apartment,(according to an interview with Clarence Mitchell this week),and supposedly listening in for any sounds coming from it.The other friend just listens but doesn't bother to go in to check on the children.If that were me, I would certainly have reacted differently,after all,I would expect them to check on my child properly,so would do them the common courtesy of doing the same for theirs.
Another point is this,it's all very well having the idea that she could be stolen to be sold,chloroformed etc.. one fact remains and that is,how would she react when she woke up and saw them?Anyone left in charge of a three year old that wants mummy and daddy and not you,then has a temper tantrum etc knows this is a nightmare situation, if only for a short while.Can you imagine this on a daily basis.Which is why,when most kids go missing,someone they already know is to blame.Kids kick,scream and bite,run away when you turn your back for a moment,hide....all sorts of things would come into play here.

Hi Anna:

You say: Had Mrs. Tanner been in the place where she says she was, she would have bumped into Gerry Mc Cann on the way. But it raises the question of how friendly were their friends.

Example when you are in a car with someone haven´t you noticed that even though you are in the same car, you might notice something that the person next to you has missed ? That is because the driver is concentrating straight ahead on the road, whilst the other person is free to look sideways at the shops or scenery.

Gerry stated that he did not see Jane Tanner whilst he was chatting to someone else only yards from the apartment he was staying at with his family, Gerry´s attention was distracted towards the man he was chatting to. His eyes were not focous behind him so this is why he did not see Jane Tanner when she walked passed them.

I think about their friendship no one in their right mind would lie to the police and be later caught in a lie, so if you are thinking they lied to protect a friend ... then they would have said they did see each other instead of saying they did not see each other, making their statements conflict.

Then you say: If I had seen a child which might belong to my friend I would have gone straight to the room to check Madie was there.

When Jane Tanner saw a man with a child under a blanket, she never imagined anything untoward, as the child was quiet, not crying, not resisting and being carried by a man, she just assumed this man must be the father of the child who was being carried under a blanket.

At that time, no one knew Madie was being abducted But of course, after the alarm was raised and Madie could not be found anywhere it is when the penny dropped and Jane realised the importance of what she had witnessed, which is the man with the scruffy appearance carrying a child under a blancket ! Suddenly that did look odd to her in retrospect but not at the time.

What you said has raised another question about the child crying, if this was true... then you would have thought Jane Tanner would have heard it and gone to take a look and comfort Madeleine wouldn´t you ? But IF she wasn´t crying as claimed, and Jane Tanner has not said she was. Then she wasn´t as it is claimed. There are allegations about this crying for mummy which the Mc Cann´s have said: They are very hurt by such smears and that they are planning to sue yet more newspapers about this. I would wait and see what happens about these allegations, since as you pointed out, Jane Tanner would have heard them and she would have comforted Madie.

What you say about the relatives are to blame when the children are difficult to manage, you are forgetting that several children have been abducted from that area, one of them was found dead not long ago. One little girl went missing just a stone throw away from where Madie disappeared and in that instance the little girl was with her mother in the house, whilst the mother was cooking in the kitchen, the little girl was sleeping in her bedroom which faced the street. The window had the mesh slashed but all this was ignored by the incompetent Portuguese police and just threw the mother in Prison without looking for anyone else.

-Maria

[caz]

What you said has raised another question about the child crying, if this was true... then you would have thought Jane Tanner would have heard it and gone to take a look and comfort Madeleine wouldn´t you ? But IF she wasn´t crying as claimed, and Jane Tanner has not said she was. Then she wasn´t as it is claimed. There are allegations about this crying for mummy which the Mc Cann´s have said: They are very hurt by such smears and that they are planning to sue yet more newspapers about this. I would wait and see what happens about these allegations, since as you pointed out, Jane Tanner would have heard them and she would have comforted Madie.

Maria, you are getting your nights muddled up. Nobody said anything about Madeleine or her siblings crying on the night of the disappearance and the alleged sighting by Jane Tanner.

It was the previous night that, according to Madeleine herself, the children were crying in vain for their mummy. Even the McCanns are not denying that Madeleine asked why mummy didn't come to them when they were crying.

It has been said that, in the McCanns' favour, they were open enough to admit this much to the police when questioned. But we don't know if this was after the rumour had circulated that a woman in a nearby apartment had heard Madeleine crying while her parents were absent.

I think it's highly doubtful that Madeleine plucked the crying incident out of her imagination and then, following her disappearance, a rumour supporting it just happened to emerge independently, and with no prior knowledge of what Madeleine had said.

Even if Madeleine had imagined it, it implies she was unhappy about being left alone. There was no suggestion from Clarence Mitchell that the parents were in the next room all night and assumed their little girl was telling stories because they heard nothing. On the contrary, they left him twisting and turning uncomfortably like a twisty, turny thing, in his efforts to make being too far away to hear any sounds of distress look like adequate parenting.

Love,

Caz
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[Mike Covell]

National News today has announced it is inevitable that the secret files on the Mccanns will be released, the initial date for release was today but spokesman, (why do they need a spokesman??) Clarence Mitchell stated "It will be summer time" before they are released!

BBC first covered the story on April 1st,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7325351.stm

Sky released this today,

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1312766,00.html

In other Maddie News Robert Murat is threatening to sue several media outlets in a move that could net him an estimated £2 Million!!

BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7344986.stm

[anna]

Hi Maria, I wasn't pointing out that because a child is difficult to manage it is the parents fault.What I was pointing out is this...you mentioned in your post that Maddie may have been chloroformed to be able to be abducted without anyone noticing... being chloroformed only lasts for a short time,so what happens after? They are left with a child who when she realises that she is in the hands of a stranger becomes a nightmare to deal with at that time,she may kick bite,scratch,try to run away when your backs turned,let alone in the coming weeks,adding tension to an already frought situation.The files Mike has mentioned will hopefully fill in a few gaps for us all.

[anna]

Caz, I agree Clarence has looked very uncomfortable just lately..but then I expect he is being paid hansomely for his services. I'm not sure what to make of Murat either Mike,stands to make a lot of money,like the McCanns out of this whole episode...the only loser here is a little three year old wide eyed girl,sadly.

[Mike Covell]

I just hope she is well and has not been mistreated by her captors.

I dread to think if anything bad has happened to her.

Perhaps we will have another Anestasia on our hands.

[Maria]

Mike:

Except that the police does have Madeleine´s DNA.

The Anastasia hoax has been finally settled ! Since five years ago, the rest of the Romanoff´s bones were discovered in a cave near Ekaterinburg, Prince Phillip gave his DNA for matching and they were an exact match to the bones found in Ekaterinburg. The Royal DNA was compared to the " Anastasia´s " DNA and it did not match. Mystery solved. She was not who she claimed she was.

Again, just another literary scam. Publishers made a mint of this hoax, by writing books about it. It is amazing how people are prepared to distort history for money.

- Maria

[Mike Covell]

Did anyone catch the doc last night on ITV?

I would have watched but "Traffic Cops" was from Humberside and featured several high speed chases through Hull!

[cappuccina]

...could someone please arrest the McCanns...

...thanks...

...and....holy crap, they have the same "guilty-angry" look as the Ramseys...

compare (photo):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1916904/Madeleine-McCann-anniversary-'last-chance'-to-appeal-for-information.html

...with:

http://www.cbsnews.com/images/2006/06/24/image8d7c5c3e-c5ad-4ab0-8cb5-0d92772151b5.jpg

[Suzi]

Definately!

Hey don't I remember in the deep and distant when this thread started that this was one of the opening observations......

Suz x

[caz]

Hi All,

Apparently, if anyone had suggested to Kate that it was risky leaving the kids alone she would never have done it.

What I'd like to know is what would have happened to the parents if Madeleine had been found at the bottom of the swimming pool that was situated between the unlocked apartment and the tapas bar.

There is still no real acknowledgement that leaving her alone was what led to whatever tragedy befell her. That was the case, whether they allowed an abductor to snatch his opportunity, or caused a little girl to go and look for her mummy, because this was the second night on the trot that mummy had made herself unavailable to her kids.

I realise that the McCanns must be filled with guilt and need to keep busy with this campaign of theirs, on behalf of other missing children. But surely their message shouldn't be: "Europe, you must finance a much better early warning system for when a child goes missing in future", but: "Parents, whatever you do, don't do what we did, for the sake of saving the cost of a babysitter".

Love,

Caz
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[Mike Covell]

I never leave my children alone, never!
If we go to the shops we hold hands all the way there and all the way back, if I have to use both hands to pay, I put my kids between my legs and the counter, I can see them below me, and I can shield them from lunatics.
Even though our house back on to other houses and there are large walls, I will not allow them in the garden unattended.
If my son has to go to the toilet he goes alone, straight there and back, but thats the only time he is alone, all the doors remain locked so there is no way anyone can get in, and I do have anti intruder devices.

I think every parent has a degree of care to their offspring, and a certain amount of accountability should come with that.

[caz]

Hi Mike,

You are right, of course, regarding children of such a tender age. As they grow older one has to let go gradually, but one also has to teach them how to be safe when their parents are not around. If they are wrapped in cotton wool too much, there is always the worry that when they do go off on their own they won't be streetwise enough to sense danger.

Kate let it slip on the documentary the other night that they went on holiday so that the kids could have fun and that they (Kate and Gerry) could have some time for themselves as well. Presumably nobody had told them, nor did they know from personal experience, that the only way you get any time for yourself on holiday with tiny tots is by palming them off onto other responsible adults. There is no other way, no ifs or buts.

Kate remains absolutely adamant that Madeleine was taken from her bed. The 'wandering off' scenario is not one that can be contemplated. That would obviously leave open the (albeit remote) possibility that nobody else was involved and she met with some sort of fatal accident when trying to find her parents. And where would that leave the McCanns, and the early warning system they expect others to finance?

As you so rightly say, infant security must begin and end with the parents.

Love,

Caz
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[Bob Hinton]

A View

There is certain information that is coming out now that I do find extremely disturbing. You can just about accept leaving the children alone in the apartment, if they sincerely believed that there was very little wrong in doing so. However now it has transpired that Madeline was very upset about being so left on two previous occasions, I just cannot get my head round that.

I recall in ‘74 when we returning from a foreign posting we were allowed to travel any way we want so we decided to cruise home. On board they had a crèche for younger children so the parents could have some time for themselves. With aching heart we put Philip into the crèche – and then spent all our time watching him through the windows to make sure he was all right! Daft or what? In the end we took him out of the crèche because quite frankly we couldn’t enjoy ourselves unless he was with us.

Ex Superintendent Kirby (James Bulger case) was on the radio yesterday and he said in his opinion the McCanns are doing themselves no favours by refusing to return to Portugal to take part in a reconstruction.

Today I hear that the McCanns are demanding that everyone who has spoken to the police contact them, as they believe they have a right to know everything the police know.

They do seem to be their own worst enemies.

[Mike Covell]

Hi all,

My son is 4 and is aware not to speak to strangers, and if he ever gets lost or wanders off, to go to the nearest shop or police officer to seek help.

My daughter is almost 2 and is a little terror, turning off the tv, turning on the washer straight after a wash!

When we went to Blackpool, my son was in his element in the tower's massive indoor play area, i was on all fours trying to keep him from danger, but he was like a pre school Indiana Jones.

It is not silly Bob to watch them, it is one of the traits of being a good parent!