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  • Whatever their failings, the McCanns deserve credit for keeping their daughter's disappearance in the public eye.
    I won't always agree but I'll try not to be disagreeable.

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    • There are plenty of videos on YouTube of the McCann's being interviewed. No emotion whatsoever is shown by either of them in any of the interviews. Kate McCann freely admits that neither of them lifted a finger to look for their daughter, yet they contuinally criticised the police for not doing enough.

      In another interview (I think it was the first one for Sky immediately after the 'abduction') the McCanns state that they feel NO guilt or responsibility for Maddie's disappearance. They state that other parents were leaving their children alone at night on the complex (So that's all right then). Personally I wouldn't dream of leaving my small children alone, even for five minutes, and especially in a strange place in an unlocked apartment.

      Another little thing that has always bothered me.....when Kate McCann discovered that Maddie was missing what do you think would have gone through her mind? (bearing in mind that Maddie had woken up the previous night and cried for her mum) Would she not have thought that Maddie had woken up and gone wandering off to look for her? (The McCann's always left the doors unlocked) Would not her first reaction be to have rushed off to look around the immediate area to see if she could locate Maddie? No. Kate went to the balcony and shouted "Maddie's been taken!"
      Last edited by louisa; 10-25-2013, 08:21 AM. Reason: text
      This is simply my opinion

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      • Originally posted by I'veBeenToMitreSquare View Post
        Hmm, well not being an expert in these matters..... What are we talking about here? Something to knock the kids out? Would such a thing be available "over the counter"? Yes, of course they (the parents) are doctors but could they easily have bought such a thing?

        I'm asking because I honestly have no idea. Surely they couldn't have brought it with them without questions.

        I HONESTLY believe that "we" are reading too much into this. This is a simple tragedy. A tragedy however, that I have a feeling will be solved sooner rather than later. I HOPE that this is the end game. I believe, that this is the end game. I believe and hope, with all my heart, that this WILL be solved soon.
        BiB. There is no evidence, only theories. However probably the main theory (propogated by Amaral, the lead detective in the case (and author of a best selling book on it), and criminal profiler Pat Brown (who also wrote a successful book) was that a product called Calpol was used to dupe the children. The source of this belief was apparently Maddie's grandad. But there are different variations on the theory. The truth however is not known and the point has been made that Calpol is a painkiller and not a sedative, although those who accuse the McCann's argue that it might contain an antihistamine that had soporific effects. But it's a very tenuous link and certainly a long way short of hard evidence that Maddie was deliberately drugged.

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        • Originally posted by louisa View Post
          There are plenty of videos on YouTube of the McCann's being interviewed. No emotion whatsoever is shown by either of them in any of the interviews. Kate McCann freely admits that neither of them lifted a finger to look for their daughter, yet they contuinally criticised the police for not doing enough.

          In another interview (I think it was the first one for Sky immediately after the 'abduction') the McCanns state that they feel NO guilt or responsibility for Maddie's disappearance. They state that other parents were leaving their children alone at night on the complex (So that's all right then). Personally I wouldn't dream of leaving my small children alone, even for five minutes, and especially in a strange place in an unlocked apartment.

          Another little thing that has always bothered me.....when Kate McCann discovered that Maddie was missing what do you think would have gone through her mind? (bearing in mind that Maddie had woken up the previous night and cried for her mum) Would she not have thought that Maddie had woken up and gone wandering off to look for her? (The McCann's always left the doors unlocked) Would not her first reaction be to have rushed off to look around the immediate area to see if she could locate Maddie? No. Kate went to the balcony and shouted "Maddie's been taken!"
          People will react differently in stressful situations though, and Kate had found the window open which might have caused her to jump to that particular conclusion. Also, as I understand, it she did do a quick frenetic search of the apartment before she raised the alarm.

          Comment


          • Well of course she said that she searched the apartment before she raised the alarm. That would be natural (if she was telling the truth).

            The McCann's left the apartment unlocked.

            As for the drug they may (or may not) have used I think you can be assured that the McCann's would have something a bit more effective than Calpol at their disposal. They were both doctors after all. This was probably not the first time they had given the children something to make them sleep.

            The hotel complex offered a baby sitting service but the the McCann's refused it. People have asked them why and they said that 'everyone' left their children alone there at night and it had always been okay before. I think they didn't use the babysitting service because they knew that their children (having been given drugs) would not be restless and get up during the night, so would be safe. Or so they thought.
            This is simply my opinion

            Comment


            • Originally posted by louisa View Post
              Well of course she said that she searched the apartment before she raised the alarm. That would be natural (if she was telling the truth).

              The McCann's left the apartment unlocked.

              As for the drug they may (or may not) have used I think you can be assured that the McCann's would have something a bit more effective than Calpol at their disposal. They were both doctors after all. This was probably not the first time they had given the children something to make them sleep.

              The hotel complex offered a baby sitting service but the the McCann's refused it. People have asked them why and they said that 'everyone' left their children alone there at night and it had always been okay before. I think they didn't use the babysitting service because they knew that their children (having been given drugs) would not be restless and get up during the night, so would be safe. Or so they thought.
              You make fair points louisa but we can only speculate about the drugs and, while I do understand why some doubt the McCann's, I wouldn't commit myself without firm evidence.

              I believe the baby setting service on offer was no more than someone walking around the complex checking that no children were crying, which is what the McCanns and their friends (they say) did themselves. I think the holiday agents had advertised a baby sitting service on site but this had actually been discontinued. There was a creche service but it was a bit of a walk and charged approx 10 per hour.

              And while it may seem rashly irresponsible to have left the doors to the apartment unlocked, I have seen the point made that locking the doors would have presented an unacceptable fire risk to the children sleeping indoors.

              In my view, the McCann's were wrong to leave the children alone as they did, but I do not, at this time, believe their culpability extends further than that. I do try and keep an open mind about it though. The sad truth is there is such little hard evidence to go on. In this respect, the case is as hazy as the JTR mystery. (The difference being that at least there is still a chance of an uplifting outcome).

              Comment


              • I also found it a little strange that, just days after Maddie had gone missing, her parents left the twins with friends while they went on a publicity jaunt to Rome to meet the Pope. Surely they could have taken the twins with them?

                Personally if this tragedy had happened to me I wouldn't want my remaining two children out of my sight, let alone left in another country (where a paedophile was suspected of taking my other child).


                Haskins - For info, I'm also very interested in the JTR case.
                This is simply my opinion

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Haskins View Post
                  ...the point has been made that Calpol is a painkiller and not a sedative, although those who accuse the McCann's argue that it might contain an antihistamine that had soporific effects.

                  Calpol Night formulation had diphenhydramine in it, which will make sleep very, very attractive (it's what I use for a sleeping pill). It's apparently been discontinued since 2009. http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/aches-and...pol-night.html
                  - Ginger

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ginger View Post
                    Calpol Night formulation had diphenhydramine in it, which will make sleep very, very attractive (it's what I use for a sleeping pill). It's apparently been discontinued since 2009. http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/aches-and...pol-night.html
                    Yes Calpol Night is a different product though. The allegation was that Calpol was used, not Calpol Night, which wasn't available at the time.

                    However it has been theorised that Calpol does actually contain traces of the same anti-histamine. Also some have theorised that, although Calpol Night wasn't actually launched until later, the McCann's could have had either it or a prototype anyway due to their professional contacts. However it must be stressed this is wild, wild speculation and it's equally true to say they would have access to much better tranquillisers. The bottom line is that there is no evidence.

                    Comment


                    • There is no hard evidence that is true enough.

                      However, as criminologists know, when a person goes missing or is murdered, especially within their home, the people closest to them are the ones that the detectives investigate first. This kind of investigation always starts at the centre of the circle and works outwards. It just doesn't make sense to do it the other way.

                      Something like 75% of missing/murdered people turn out to be victims of either their spouse/relative or somebody they know, so searching for an intruder could be a waste of time and shouldn't be done until the parents are questioned fully. This should have happened in the JonBenet case too.
                      This is simply my opinion

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by louisa View Post
                        There is no hard evidence that is true enough.

                        However, as criminologists know, when a person goes missing or is murdered, especially within their home, the people closest to them are the ones that the detectives investigate first. This kind of investigation always starts at the centre of the circle and works outwards. It just doesn't make sense to do it the other way.

                        Something like 75% of missing/murdered people turn out to be victims of either their spouse/relative or somebody they know, so searching for an intruder could be a waste of time and shouldn't be done until the parents are questioned fully. This should have happened in the JonBenet case too.
                        I agree with that and to be fair to Amaral who led the original Portuguese police investigation, he argued the same.

                        The thing is, though, that you also have to keep an open mind. This is where the debate rages. Did Amaral and his team really keep an open mind, or were they too suspicious, too deeply mired in unsubstantiated theories? They have been accused of taking their eye off the ball and pursuing the McCanns when there was no serious evidence to justify such a pursuit. In the event, they failed to make any kind of case, to the detriment of what should have been their overriding concern, finding Madeleine.

                        Note that the Portuguese police do now appear to have ruled out the McCann's as suspects. See for example this link. So the best evidence available at the moment does seem to show that the original investigation did unfortunately waylay itself. But until Madeleine is found, we won't know the truth for sure.

                        Comment


                        • I suspect that the Portguese detectives have 'ruled out' the McCanns because they're bowing to public pressure. They've realised they're on a loser because nothing can ever be proved, one way or the other, unless of course Maddie is found (or somebody talks).

                          I've read Amaral's theories and I don't totally agree with his version of what he thinks probably happened. I think it was very wrong for the McCann's to stop the sale of his book in the UK though. I presume they didn't want the public to start seriously questioning their version of what happened.
                          This is simply my opinion

                          Comment


                          • I, like many, found the McCanns' behaviour in leaving three young children alone in an apartment whilst they, the adults, made merry in a local restaurant, both strange and unacceptable. We should however remember that there were nine adults in the party and eight children. All the children were left alone by their respective parents on each night of the holiday. In that respect therefore the McCanns were conforming to the norms of behaviour set by themselves and their peer group.

                            Post abduction, I would not pass any judgment on the McCanns based on their behaviour. They must have been under tremendous strain and who can say what would be normal behaviour in those circumstances. In particular, it is said that Kate should not have gone jogging nor Gerry played tennis, they, so the argument runs, should have been out there looking for their missing offspring. The trouble with that is that once the media circus set up camp on the McCanns' doorstep it was impossible for the McCanns to go out on the streets without being followed by a posse of journos and paparazzi. There were two alternatives; one, stay indoors in an apartment or two, do what they did and jog or play tennis. With the latter alternative they would keep themselves and the search for Madeleine in the public eye, but would be in a position to exert some control over the Fourth Estate.

                            I do not think that in any way what the McCanns did can be taken as any evidence whatsoever that they were complicit in the death of Madeleine or in the unlawful disposal of her remains.

                            In fact I believe that such an idea is quite preposterous. There seems to be two strands of what I shall charitably call 'thought'. The idea favoured by the obnoxious, lazy and inept Amaral is that Madeleine came to her death by and accident that probably occurred in the afternoon of 3 May in the living room of the apartment. Others favour the idea that Madeleine was given some sort of the sedative which produced an averse reaction causing death.

                            As regards the accidental death theory this has the advantage that it would give the McCanns a little time to plan for the disposal of the body and put such into execution. Yet if Madeleine had died accidentally what on earth was the purpose of disposing of her body?

                            On the sedative theory, this requires to us to imagine that shortly before bedtime Madeleine was given a sedative which must have killed her before the McCanns left for dinner. Presumably on the way to dinner at the Tapas Restaurant Gerry and Kate planned the disposal of the remains of their eldest child. How it is proposed that this plan was formulated has not been fully explained.

                            Both theories rely on the Tapas 7 being either complicit in the plan to dispose of Madeleine's body or being totally unaware that she was dead. Is either really possible? I don't think so.

                            I do however feel that when Madeleine's abduction was reported to the Police both the McCanns and the Tapas 7, or at least the six of them who had left children unattended, would have sought to mitigate their apparent irresponsibility by showing that they had made conscientious checks on their children throughout the evening. If they made accurate statements as to the checks which were made, then all well and good but if there was some exaggeration, then this might have both hindered the investigation and moreover brought Police suspicion upon them.

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                            • Originally posted by miner2049er View Post

                              Also, just my opinion, but if the McCanns had been jobless and from a council estate, they would be in prison by now and would have no public sympathy at all.
                              If the McCanns had been working class (council estate or otherwise), this would have had one day's news and that would have been it.

                              Scores of children go missing from working class areas every week, and the most publicity they attract is a 'missing' poster.

                              Because this couple are middle class, the press have kept this in the public eye because the McCann's are of their own ilk.

                              Personally, I think it's disgusting that all of this money and attention has been focused on one child.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post
                                Personally, I think it's disgusting that all of this money and attention has been focused on one child.
                                Hi FM,

                                Or to look at it another way, I think it's sad that more money and attention is not focused on every other child who urgently needs it.

                                Let's face it, Maddie may have been beyond help within the first 24 hours of her disappearance, or on the other hand she may have been 'adopted' by childless parents who are giving her a safe and happy life. It would be a rare thing for a child of three to be one of those cases where she is abducted and kept for years, being used and abused without anyone knowing a thing about it. That would presumably be the worst scenario now for Maddie herself - which is what should be focused on before the need of the parents for 'closure' (I so dislike that word).

                                If only all parents put their babies first at all times and didn't have to learn the hard way...

                                Love,

                                Caz
                                X
                                "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


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