JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Herlock Sholmes]

"I'm just a Patsy"

.Lee Harvey Oswald .

But hey, I acted totally on my own when I shot and killed the President of the U.S

Nice editing Fishy.

As you well know, if you listen to it all, he was saying ‘they only picked on me because I was in the Soviet Union.’

It’s quite noticeable that he never mentions conspiracy either Fishy. What kind of plotters allow their dupe to wander around and get arrested.

As Fiver said..it’s Larry, Curley and Mo stuff that some people actually believe.

[A P Tomlinson]

I need to correct one of the statements in my previous post.

The report bearing Bardwell Odum's name that made it into the report evidence said that the two men at Parkland DID identify the bullet.
It was later investigation by HSCA and ARRB investigators that revealed that they hadn't identified the bullet they were shown (CE399) and that Odum had never been involved in handling that piece of evidence.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Your missing the point

I'm not talking about autopsy pathologists who all agree with the fake findings!! I'm talking about the Medical experts who all saw the back of jfk head at 12.35 on the 22n Nov 1963 .

And you are ignoring the point but here I go again trying to explain the obvious when you clearly do understand but are avoiding confronting what I’m saying.

You favour the Parkland doctors….ok?

I favour the Bethesda pathologists…ok?

Your doctors weren’t examining wounds my pathologists were…ok?

My pathologists weren’t trained to assess wounds yours weren’t, they were largely junior doctors still in training…ok?

My pathologists deliberately examined all of the wounds in detail….ok?

Your doctors were trying to save Kennedy’s life and were focused on his breathing…ok?

Kennedy was resting on the back of his head, his body was never turned over, how could they accurately assess the back of his head…ok?

The back of Kennedy’s head, as per all, was covered in blood, gore and matted hair, which would have looked like a wound to anyone not making a close examination…like the Parkland doctors…ok?

When asked by Bugliosi, Dr. Carrico (who was there) said that ‘absolutely’ those doctors could have been mistaken..ok?


They clearly were mistaken. And yet you prefer a ridiculously convoluted conspiracy position involving faking and lying. It’s silly.

And again…..remember my question that no one will answer and which you will ignore again too….

What kind of ant-brained, addled, clown troupe of a bunch of conspirators would have gone to the massive trouble of a fake autopsy only to have allowed a bunch of doctors, who weren’t a part of the plot, to have seen the body first?! I’ll use the same analogy again - it’s like a bank robber putting on his mask after he’s already done the robbery and is on his way home.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I just can't believe for the life of me that today 62 years later , people such as yourself still believe Oswald fired 3 shots from the tsbd and killed the President ,acting totally alone .

With everything we now know ,all the different eyewitness, medical experts ,sworn testimony, etc,etc that Completely Contradicts the warren commission findings .

Never in my whole 60 on this planet , having had an interest in may crimes in all history , having studied the jfk assassination since I was 15, have I ever ever seen such a more deliberate case of a complete cover up lack of interest of the authorities of the day to find out the truth .


So you'll forgive me Herlock ,but if but if it takes discussing 50 points at the same time in the hope of doing so ,then so be it .

I believe it because that’s what the evidence tells me.

The problem is that a conspiracy of that ludicrous complexity couldn’t have happened.

Just because you say… “have I ever seen a more deliberate case of complete cover up,’ it means nothing because it’s just a reflection on your own poor judgment. I could equally, and with more credibility, say “I don’t know why you, with whatever job you had or background that you have, think that you are in a better position than Vincent Bugliosi (Deputy DA for LA from ‘64 to ‘72 where he successfully prosecuted 105 out of 106 felony jury trials, a lifelong Democrat [so no right-wing Kennedy hater] he is on record as initially believing that RFK was killed as a result of conspiracy, he also wrote two books seriously criticising the government so he was no apologist)

He spent 20 years researching the case (any idea that someone would spend 20 years to produce something dishonest is not worthy of consideration) He then produced a 1600 page book with a cd-rom of at least that many pages again. The most in-depth analysis of a true crime in the history of true crime by an absolute mile. It was massive news when it finally came out and yet you, and others, couldn’t be bothered to get it. Why? Because your mind is entirely closed. Your opinion has been formed by liars like Mark Lane, like Jim Garrison (a criminal) like Oliver Stone, like Robert Groden, like Beverly Oliver, like Ricky White, like Ed Hoffman and many many others. You have simply listened to those already aboard the bandwagon. Most of whom make their living, at least partially from this case.

I, on the other hand Fishy, read first a straight run through of the case. I then read around 40 conspiracy based books before actually considering the possibility of a lone gunman. Only then did I read Posner and a couple of others. Bugliosi put the final nails in the coffin of this childish (yes I’ll use that word again because it fits) idea of a huge conspiracy.

Oswald was the lone assassin. If you can’t see it then you are biased. It’s as simple as that.

PS…after virtually every post of yours Fiver has ripped it apart but you never comment or discuss do you. You simply move on. Why don’t you have the courage of your convictions to defend your points Fishy? Your points have been thoroughly rebutted.

[A P Tomlinson]

It’s difficult to listen to pontifications from people who have only ever read books written from the conspiracy side. It’s hardly surprising that plots are seen in every corner. The world is riddled with conspiracy theorists. You can’t discuss anything properly when you just get ‘fake’ and ‘forgery’ yelled back at every obstacle to their nonsense. I’m sick to the back teeth of hearing about the bloody rifle!

Oswald killed Kennedy using that rifle. It shouldn’t require discussion. It’s what happened.

But there isn't any evidence that he did and no evidence he did so alone, in fact most evidence suggests a second shooter. That's certainly what the CIA analysis said, anyway, but the commission was under instruction from Johnson to find no evidence of either a domestic or foreign conspiracy.

You ask for "something new" but that information has been coming out for over 30 years, yet anyone who believed the Warren report then, still believes it now and treats the thousands of official documents that have been released as "Conspiracy Nut" propaganda.
Let's start with a simple piece of bullshit that got exposed... Hoover stated for the record that Ruby had never been a ""paid informant" for the FBI. The truth was that in the EIGHT covert meetings the FBI held with Ruby, he provided NO actionable evidence and therefore was never Paid for information.
The Bullet that was "identified" as CE399, was in two places at once according to FBI and Secret Service records... while it was being handed over in the Whitehouse to the FBI, it was already being processed at the FBI. The bullet shown to the men at Parkland who found the bullet was never identified by them as such. A report that never made it to the Warren report showed that senior FBI agent Bardwell Odum had shown the bullet to both Tomlinson (the orderly who found it) and O.P Wright (Personel director who Tomlinson gave it to, and who gave it to the secret Service) said that the bullet they were shown didn't look like the bullet they fund, and that it wasn't a jacketed military round and more like a pointed hunting round. When questioned by the ARRB, Odum said he had never even seen that bullet, let alone taken it to Parkland for examination. No documents detailing the events that bare his name, bare his signature...

Secret Service agent Elmer Moore when questioned by the ARRB said he regretted having to strongarm the Parkland staff into saying that the neck wound was a wound of exit, and that Chief Rowley had forced him to.

But as to did he do it.
Let's ignore that paraffin wax evidence used to "prove" he fired a gun that day also showed that he hadn't fired a rifle. And lets forget that historically, being thrown in the bag of a police car is one of the main ways false positives are created in nitrate and gunpowder evidence being on an innocent persons hands.

Even Warren Commission members doubted their own story.
Richard Russell tried to voice his concerns at the final meeting of the Commission with concerns that they weren't addressing. He called Johnson to raise the point that he didn't believe Kennedy and Connally were hit by the same bullet, and Johnson agreed with him. He went on to become the first. and loudest, member of the commission to criticise its findings and said that he believed there was a conspiracy, but that the FBI were not interested in investigating any further than Oswald, and were not forthcoming with any evidence that might point even tangentially away from their initial findings in November 1963 that "he did it and he did it alone" and that they were more interested in protecting their own public profile than finding the truth.
But "Conspiracy nuts" eh...

Junior counsel Wesley Liebeler sent a raft of concerns in the detailing of both Oswalds ability to do the shooting as presented in the report as well as its inability to put him in the window at the time of the shooting, He explained any fingerprint or fiber evidence only showed that he had touched the rifle at some point, not that he had fired it and certainly nothing to show he had fired it that day. He pointed out that no one saw the rifle in the Paine's garage, only that there had been a blanket that had at some point held the rifle.
He pointed out that the argument that his room HAD curtains rods did not take into account that Oswald said they were for a new apartment, and was looking to move himself and his family into a new apartment.
He pointed out that if they were to believe Frazier about the existence of the package and the way Oswald carried it, they should not discount his repeated statement abut the size of the package.
My favourite line from his memos is this "...the testimony of the employees as set forth in that paragraph is also consistent with Oswald having been in Ethiopia at the time of the assassination,"
He tries to get them to address the matter of why Victoria Adams did not see Oswald on the staircase... for some reason the commission requested her filed statements and tape of her evidence be returned to the Commission for "distruction" (It seems that he filing department were either unhappy with this or weren't on the same page, because they replaced the file with the Warren Commissions written request to destroy it... oops) so the report never provided her testimony and based their appraisal of her testimony on a story they created from whole cloth.
But his boldest comment, that tells us everything we need to know about the commissions actual business and purpose was... after tearing holes in the evidence used to support Oswald's ability to do the shooting... this;
"The Commission could then conclude that the best evidence that Oswald could fire his rifle as fast as he did and hit the target is the fact that he did so."

Nothing like starting from the assumed presumption of guilt...