JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Herlock Sholmes]

Your source claimed that the APB for the JFK included a clothing description. Your source was lying.

Your source claimed that all of the Tippit murder witnesses gave an identical a clothing description. Your source was lying.

Your source claimed that Oswald was just walking down the street before he ducked into the Texas Theater. Your source was lying.

Your source claimed that Johnny Brewer was lying about hearing of Tippit's murder on the radio. Your source was lying.

Your source said that all the descriptions of Tippit's murderer contradicted each other. Your source was lying.

Your source tried to pretend that Aquilla Clemons was at least three witnesses. Your source was lying.

Your source said Domingo Benavides changed his testimony after his brother was murdered, Your source was lying.

Your source said the murderer of Eddy Benavides was never caught, Your source was lying.

Your source lied about the distance between the location of Tippit's murder and the Texas Theater.

Your source lied about the time between Tippit's murder and the time Oswald was seen entering the Texas Theater.

Your source lied about Jack Ruby having a house in Oak Cliff.

Your source lied about JD Tippit's reason for being in Oak Cliff.

Your source lied about JD Tippit having a mistress in Oak Cliff.

Your source lied about JD Tippet working for Jack Ruby.

Your source lied about Billy Lovelady looking almost the same as Oswald.

Your source lied about Lovelady being a smuggler and gunrunner.

Your source lied about Jack Ruby being a successful gunrunner.

Your source lied by claiming Ruth Paine got Lovelady a job at the TSBD.

Your source lied about the occupation of Ruth Paine's father.

Your source lied about Ruth Paine knowing Allen Dulles.

Your source lied about Oswald's level of security clearance.

That's not a complete list of your source's lies.

Typical CT source id say Fiver.

[cobalt]

So you ignore a pile of witnesses in favour of the one who was bullied by Mark Lane. A poorly educated, not very lucid woman badgered on tape. Good choice Fishy.

Bullied by the pipe smoking, avuncular Mark Lane?? I watched Acquilla Clemmons' interview last night and I think Sonny Liston would have struggled to intimidate her. Her southern drawl might indicate a limited academic education but there is no evidence of her faculties or honesty being in question. She was perfectly lucid on the point of her believing she saw two persons involved in the murder of JD Tippit. She might have misinterpreted the situation of course but she was surely worth taking a statement from.

I have read that the FBI did not take a statement from Acquilla Clemmons on grounds of her health: she was around 55 and suffered from diabetes. If she was 'bullied' by Mark Lane then it seems odd she was very open about being threatened by law enforcement a few days after the Tippit murder. Maybe Mark Lane was better at bullying people than LE carrying a weapon.

But not so good as others. I think Warren Reynolds was the Tippit witness who was unable to identify Oswald as being at the scene. After being shot in the head, and surviving, his memory was jolted for the better and he was then able to confirm that Oswald was indeed the man he saw fleeing the murder scene.

[Fiver]

I think Warren Reynolds was the Tippit witness who was unable to identify Oswald as being at the scene. After being shot in the head, and surviving, his memory was jolted for the better and he was then able to confirm that Oswald was indeed the man he saw fleeing the murder scene.

Reynolds was one of four men at the Reynolds Motor Company who heard shots and saw a man with a gun running.

L. J. LEWIS, 7616 Hums, Pleasant Grove, Texas, advised he is presently self-employed as a wholesale car dealer. LEWIS advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was on the used car lot of Johnny Reynolds Used Cars together with HAROLD RUSSELL and PAT PATTERSON, during which time they heard approximately three or four gun shots coming from the vicinity of Tenth and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas. Approximately one minute later he observed a white male, approximately thirty years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying either an automatic pistol or a revolver in his hands, and while running was either attempting to reload same or conceal the weapon in his belt line.

Upon reaching the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, the individual then proceeded west on Jefferson, at which time LEWIS advised he went into the office of Johnny Reynolds Used Cars and called the Dallas Police Department to advise them of the fact that the shooting had just occurred just north of the intersection of Jefferson and Patton Avenue.

LEWIS advised PAT PATTERSON and WARREN REYNOLDS attempted to follow the individual, and to the best of his knowledge, HAROLD RUSSELL had gone in the direction of Tenth and Patton Avenue to determine what had happened. LEWIS advised he later was informed that a Dallas uniform police officer had been shot at the intersection of Patton and Tenth Street in Dallas, and that in all probability the individual they had seen running south on Patton Avenue with a gun in his possession was the individual responsible for sane.

LEWIS was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans PD No. 112723, dated August 9, 1963, at which time Mr. LEWIS advised due to the distance from which he observed the individual he would hesitate to state whether the individual was identical with OSWALD.

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Mr. B.M. PATTERSON, 4635 Hartford Street, Dallas, Texas, currently employed by Wyatt's Cafeteria, 2647 South Lancaster, Dallas, Texas, advised he was present at the used car lot of JOHNNY REYNOLDS' on the afternoon of November 22, 1963.

PATTERSON advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, he was standing on JONNY REYNOLDS' used car lot together with L.J. LEWIS and HAROLD RUSSELL when they heard shots coming from the vicinity of 10th and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas. A minute or so later they observed a white male approximately 30 years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying what appeared to be a revolver in his hand and was obviously trying to reload same while running. When the individual reached the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Street, he placed the weapon inside his waistband and began walking west on the north side of Jefferson Street. As the individual was walking WARREN REYNOLDS suggested that they follow the individual to determine, his location in order that they could later notify the Dallas Police Department. At this point, he was unaware that a police officer had been shot and thought perhaps that the shooting had resulted from some marital problem. As the individual reached Ballew's Texaco Service Station located in the 600 Block of Jefferson, the individual made a turn in a northerly direction and proceeded behind Ballew's Texaco Service Station where the individual discarded a jacket which was later recovered by the Dallas Police Department. The aforementioned individual was not observed again by either he, PATTERSON, or WARREN REYNOLDS.

PATTERSON was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD at which time he identified said photograph as being identical with the individual he had observed on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, running south on Patton Avenue with a weapon in his hand.

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WARREN REYNOLDS, part owner, Johnny Reynolds Used Car Lot, 500 Jefferson Street, Dallas, advised on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, while sitting in his office, he had observed an individual running south on Patton Avenue toward Jefferson Street and then walking at a fast rate of speed west on Jefferson. As the individual was running down Patton Avenue, he had a pistol or an automatic in his possession and was apparently attempting to conceal same in his belt while he was running. REYNOLDS advised he had previously heard shots coming from the area of Tenth and Patton Streets and, thinking that possibly a marital argument had occurred and a shooting had taken place, he attempted to follow the individual in order that he could inform the Dallas Police Department of the individual's location.

He advised he stayed at a safe distance behind the individual and last observed the individual to turn north by the Ballew Texaco Service Station, and from this point he did not again observe the individual. He advised he made inquiry at Ballew's Texaco Service Station, and they informed him the individual had gone through the parking lot.

REYNOLDS advised approximately five or ten minutes later he was informed by an unknown source that the individual whom he had been "tailing" had shot and apparently killed a uniform officer of the Dallas Police Department.

REYNOLDS was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, at which time he advised he is of the opinion OSWALD is the person he had followed on the afternoon of November 22, 1963; however, he would hesitate to definitely identify OSWALD as the individual.

*****************************************

HAROLD RUSSELL, employee, Johnny Reynolds Used Car Lot, 500 Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was standing on the lot of Reynolds Used Cars together with L.J. LEWIS and PAT PATTERSON, at which time they heard shots come from the vicinity of Patton and Tenth Street, and a few seconds later they observed a young white man running south on Patton Avenue carrying a pistol or revolver which the individual was attempting to either reload or place in his belt line. Upon reaching the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Street, the individual stopped running and began walking at a fast pace, heading west on Jefferson.

RUSSELL advised that he and PAT PATTERSON proceeded to the area of Tenth and Patton Avenue and that L.J. LEWIS went into the office of Reynolds Used Car Lot to call the Dallas Police Department.

RUSSELL advised upon arriving at the intersection of Tenth and Patton he observed a Dallas uniform police officer lying on the ground in front of a Dallas police car, and from all indication the Dallas police officer was apparently dead. RUSSELL advised the police officer's weapon was lying on the front seat of the Dallas police officer's car. At this point an unknown individual stated to RUSSELL, "Let's take the police officer's gun end go get the S.O.B. who is responsible for this."

RUSSELL advised he informed the unknown individual that he would remain at the police car so he could advise the other police officers upon their arrival of the direction in which the person responsible for the shooting had gone. RUSSELL advised approximately five minutes later Dallas police officers arrived, at which time he informed them of the general direction in which the person apparently responsible for the shooting had gone and also the fact that WARREN REYNOLDS and PAT PATTERSON, employees of Johnny Reynolds Used Car Lot, had attempted to follow the individual as he headed west on Jefferson Street.

RUSSELL advised he had furnished the foregoing information to the Dallas Police Department on the afternoon of November 22, 1963. RUSSELL advised he was not a witness to the actual shooting of the Dallas police officer and could only testify to the fact that he had observed an individual whom he now knows as LEE HARVEY OSWALD leaving the scene.

RUSSELL positively identified a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans Police Department # 112723, taken August 9, 1963, as being identical with the individual he had observed at the scene of the shooting of Dallas Police Officer J.D. TIPPIT on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, at Dallas, Texas.

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Why would the Conspiracy target Reynolds, who thought it was likely Oswald? Patterson and Russell, were certain it was Oswald, and Reynolds supported them.. If the Conspiracy wanted to shore up weak testimony, why not target Lewis, who said he was too far away to identify the man?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Bullied by the pipe smoking, avuncular Mark Lane?? I watched Acquilla Clemmons' interview last night and I think Sonny Liston would have struggled to intimidate her. Her southern drawl might indicate a limited academic education but there is no evidence of her faculties or honesty being in question. She was perfectly lucid on the point of her believing she saw two persons involved in the murder of JD Tippit. She might have misinterpreted the situation of course but she was surely worth taking a statement from.

I have read that the FBI did not take a statement from Acquilla Clemmons on grounds of her health: she was around 55 and suffered from diabetes. If she was 'bullied' by Mark Lane then it seems odd she was very open about being threatened by law enforcement a few days after the Tippit murder. Maybe Mark Lane was better at bullying people than LE carrying a weapon.

But not so good as others. I think Warren Reynolds was the Tippit witness who was unable to identify Oswald as being at the scene. After being shot in the head, and surviving, his memory was jolted for the better and he was then able to confirm that Oswald was indeed the man he saw fleeing the murder scene.

I did mention in #3480 which you might have missed that my memory played me false on that one Cobalt. It was actually Helen Markham. I should have checked before posting.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Reynolds was one of four men at the Reynolds Motor Company who heard shots and saw a man with a gun running.

L. J. LEWIS, 7616 Hums, Pleasant Grove, Texas, advised he is presently self-employed as a wholesale car dealer. LEWIS advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was on the used car lot of Johnny Reynolds Used Cars together with HAROLD RUSSELL and PAT PATTERSON, during which time they heard approximately three or four gun shots coming from the vicinity of Tenth and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas. Approximately one minute later he observed a white male, approximately thirty years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying either an automatic pistol or a revolver in his hands, and while running was either attempting to reload same or conceal the weapon in his belt line.

Upon reaching the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, the individual then proceeded west on Jefferson, at which time LEWIS advised he went into the office of Johnny Reynolds Used Cars and called the Dallas Police Department to advise them of the fact that the shooting had just occurred just north of the intersection of Jefferson and Patton Avenue.

LEWIS advised PAT PATTERSON and WARREN REYNOLDS attempted to follow the individual, and to the best of his knowledge, HAROLD RUSSELL had gone in the direction of Tenth and Patton Avenue to determine what had happened. LEWIS advised he later was informed that a Dallas uniform police officer had been shot at the intersection of Patton and Tenth Street in Dallas, and that in all probability the individual they had seen running south on Patton Avenue with a gun in his possession was the individual responsible for sane.

LEWIS was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans PD No. 112723, dated August 9, 1963, at which time Mr. LEWIS advised due to the distance from which he observed the individual he would hesitate to state whether the individual was identical with OSWALD.

**************************************

Mr. B.M. PATTERSON, 4635 Hartford Street, Dallas, Texas, currently employed by Wyatt's Cafeteria, 2647 South Lancaster, Dallas, Texas, advised he was present at the used car lot of JOHNNY REYNOLDS' on the afternoon of November 22, 1963.

PATTERSON advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, he was standing on JONNY REYNOLDS' used car lot together with L.J. LEWIS and HAROLD RUSSELL when they heard shots coming from the vicinity of 10th and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas. A minute or so later they observed a white male approximately 30 years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying what appeared to be a revolver in his hand and was obviously trying to reload same while running. When the individual reached the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Street, he placed the weapon inside his waistband and began walking west on the north side of Jefferson Street. As the individual was walking WARREN REYNOLDS suggested that they follow the individual to determine, his location in order that they could later notify the Dallas Police Department. At this point, he was unaware that a police officer had been shot and thought perhaps that the shooting had resulted from some marital problem. As the individual reached Ballew's Texaco Service Station located in the 600 Block of Jefferson, the individual made a turn in a northerly direction and proceeded behind Ballew's Texaco Service Station where the individual discarded a jacket which was later recovered by the Dallas Police Department. The aforementioned individual was not observed again by either he, PATTERSON, or WARREN REYNOLDS.

PATTERSON was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD at which time he identified said photograph as being identical with the individual he had observed on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, running south on Patton Avenue with a weapon in his hand.

****************************************

WARREN REYNOLDS, part owner, Johnny Reynolds Used Car Lot, 500 Jefferson Street, Dallas, advised on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, while sitting in his office, he had observed an individual running south on Patton Avenue toward Jefferson Street and then walking at a fast rate of speed west on Jefferson. As the individual was running down Patton Avenue, he had a pistol or an automatic in his possession and was apparently attempting to conceal same in his belt while he was running. REYNOLDS advised he had previously heard shots coming from the area of Tenth and Patton Streets and, thinking that possibly a marital argument had occurred and a shooting had taken place, he attempted to follow the individual in order that he could inform the Dallas Police Department of the individual's location.

He advised he stayed at a safe distance behind the individual and last observed the individual to turn north by the Ballew Texaco Service Station, and from this point he did not again observe the individual. He advised he made inquiry at Ballew's Texaco Service Station, and they informed him the individual had gone through the parking lot.

REYNOLDS advised approximately five or ten minutes later he was informed by an unknown source that the individual whom he had been "tailing" had shot and apparently killed a uniform officer of the Dallas Police Department.

REYNOLDS was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, at which time he advised he is of the opinion OSWALD is the person he had followed on the afternoon of November 22, 1963; however, he would hesitate to definitely identify OSWALD as the individual.

*****************************************

HAROLD RUSSELL, employee, Johnny Reynolds Used Car Lot, 500 Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was standing on the lot of Reynolds Used Cars together with L.J. LEWIS and PAT PATTERSON, at which time they heard shots come from the vicinity of Patton and Tenth Street, and a few seconds later they observed a young white man running south on Patton Avenue carrying a pistol or revolver which the individual was attempting to either reload or place in his belt line. Upon reaching the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Street, the individual stopped running and began walking at a fast pace, heading west on Jefferson.

RUSSELL advised that he and PAT PATTERSON proceeded to the area of Tenth and Patton Avenue and that L.J. LEWIS went into the office of Reynolds Used Car Lot to call the Dallas Police Department.

RUSSELL advised upon arriving at the intersection of Tenth and Patton he observed a Dallas uniform police officer lying on the ground in front of a Dallas police car, and from all indication the Dallas police officer was apparently dead. RUSSELL advised the police officer's weapon was lying on the front seat of the Dallas police officer's car. At this point an unknown individual stated to RUSSELL, "Let's take the police officer's gun end go get the S.O.B. who is responsible for this."

RUSSELL advised he informed the unknown individual that he would remain at the police car so he could advise the other police officers upon their arrival of the direction in which the person responsible for the shooting had gone. RUSSELL advised approximately five minutes later Dallas police officers arrived, at which time he informed them of the general direction in which the person apparently responsible for the shooting had gone and also the fact that WARREN REYNOLDS and PAT PATTERSON, employees of Johnny Reynolds Used Car Lot, had attempted to follow the individual as he headed west on Jefferson Street.

RUSSELL advised he had furnished the foregoing information to the Dallas Police Department on the afternoon of November 22, 1963. RUSSELL advised he was not a witness to the actual shooting of the Dallas police officer and could only testify to the fact that he had observed an individual whom he now knows as LEE HARVEY OSWALD leaving the scene.

RUSSELL positively identified a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans Police Department # 112723, taken August 9, 1963, as being identical with the individual he had observed at the scene of the shooting of Dallas Police Officer J.D. TIPPIT on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, at Dallas, Texas.

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Why would the Conspiracy target Reynolds, who thought it was likely Oswald? Patterson and Russell, were certain it was Oswald, and Reynolds supported them.. If the Conspiracy wanted to shore up weak testimony, why not target Lewis, who said he was too far away to identify the man?

Fiver, do you still have that full list handy? The one containing all the witnesses who positively identified Oswald as the man that shot Tippit.

[Fiver]

Fiver, do you still have that full list handy? The one containing all the witnesses who positively identified Oswald as the man that shot Tippit.

Witnesses to Oswald shooting Tippit, fleeing the scene, or being arrested.

George Aplin - As the officer started to shake him down, and when he did, this boy took a swing at the officer and then the next thing I could see was this boy had his arm around the officer's left shoulder and had a pistol in his hand. I heard the pistol snap at least once. Then I saw a large group of officers subdue this boy and arrest him.

Elbert Austin - AUSTIN was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans Police Department # 112—723, and advised he could not identify OSWALD as being the person who shot the Dallas police officer inasmuch as he was approximately one block away and the individual who did the shooting was running in the opposite direction.

Domingo Benavides -
Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.

Johnny C. Brewer -
An officer approached him and he hit the officer and knocked him back. Several other officers then joined the fight and the man was taken out of the theater. This was the same man I had seen in front of the shoe store where I work. The reason I noticed the man in front of the store was because he acted so nervous, and I thought at the time he might be the man that had shot the policeman.

Mary Brock - Mrs. BROCK was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans PD 9 112723, dated August 9, 1963, which she identified as being the same person she observed on November 22, 1963, at Ballew's Texaco Service Station.

Robert Brock - ROBERT BROCK was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, at which time he advised he could not positively identify same as being identical with the individual who had passed him at Ballew's Texaco Service Station.

Jimmy Earl Burt - At that moment he caught a glimpse of a man running on the sidewalk on the south side of the street. The man at this point had reached the intersection of 10th and Patton Streets. He described this man as a white male, approximately 5'8". He was wearing a light colored short jacket. BURT stated he could not describe the man further as he was never closer than 50 to 60 yards from the man. He said at one point he did notice the man had a pistol in his right hand. Although he is familiar with hand weapons he said that because of the distance he could not describe the pistol.

Ted Callaway - The number 2 man in the line up that I saw at City Hall is the man I saw with the gun in his hand.

Frank Cimino - He heard four loud noises which sounded like shots and then he heard a women scream. He jumped up. put on his shoes and ran outside the house, and a woman dressed like a waitress was out in front of his residence shouting, "Call the police". She also advised a man had just shot a police officer and stated he had run west on Tenth Street and pointed in the direction of an alley which runs between Tenth Street and Jefferson off Patton Street.

Barbara J. Davis - About 8:00 pm the same day, the police came after me and took me downtown to the city hall where I saw this man in a lineup. The #2 man in a 4-man lineup was the same man I saw in my yard, also the one that was unloading the gun.

Virginia R. Davis - The man that was unloading the gun was the same man I saw tonight as number 2 man in a line up.

John Gibson - Mr. GIBSON. I saw them going down what I would call the two big center aisles, and then the next thing was--Oswald was standing in the aisle with a gun in his hand.

Sam Guinyard - The #2 man in the lineup I saw at the city hall is the same man I saw running with the pistol in his hand.

Francis Kinnith - KINNETH was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, at which time he advised he could not identify OSWALD as being the individual he had observed leaving the scene of the shooting of the Dallas police officer.

LJ Lewis - LEWIS was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans PD No. 112723, dated August 9, 1963, at which time Mr. LEWIS advised due to the distance from which he observed the individual he would hesitate to state whether the individual was identical with OSWALD.

Helen L. Markham - Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman.

BM Patterson - PATTERSON was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD at which time he identified said photograph as being identical with the individual he had observed on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, running south on Patton Avenue with a weapon in his hand.

Warren Reynolds - REYNOLDS was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, at which time he advised he is of the opinion OSWALD is the person he had followed on the afternoon of November 22, 1963; however, he would hesitate to definitely identify OSWALD as the individual.

Harold Russell - RUSSELL positively identified a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans Police Department # 112723, taken August 9, 1963, as being identical with the individual he had observed at the scene of the shooting of Dallas Police Officer J.D. TIPPIT on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, at Dallas, Texas.

William W. Scoggins - Mr. SCOGGINS. I identified the one we are talking about, Oswald. I identified him.

William A. Smith - He said he was too far away from the individual to positively identify him but he said he was a white male, about 5' 7" to 5'8", 20 to 25 years of age, 150-160, wearing a white shirt, light brown jacket and dark pants.

Jack R Tatum - I heard three shots in rapid (illegible)I went right through the intersection, stopped my car and turned to look back. I then saw the officer lying on the street and saw this young white man standing near the front of the squad car. Next. this man with a gun in his hand ran toward the back of the squad car, but instead of running away he stepped into the street and shot the police officer who was lying in the street. At that point this young man looked around him and then started to walk away in my direction and as he started to break into a small run in my direction, I sped off in my auto. All I saw him to the intersection and run south on Patton towards Jefferson.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Witnesses to Oswald shooting Tippit, fleeing the scene, or being arrested.

George Aplin - As the officer started to shake him down, and when he did, this boy took a swing at the officer and then the next thing I could see was this boy had his arm around the officer's left shoulder and had a pistol in his hand. I heard the pistol snap at least once. Then I saw a large group of officers subdue this boy and arrest him.

Elbert Austin - AUSTIN was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans Police Department # 112—723, and advised he could not identify OSWALD as being the person who shot the Dallas police officer inasmuch as he was approximately one block away and the individual who did the shooting was running in the opposite direction.

Domingo Benavides -
Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.

Johnny C. Brewer -
An officer approached him and he hit the officer and knocked him back. Several other officers then joined the fight and the man was taken out of the theater. This was the same man I had seen in front of the shoe store where I work. The reason I noticed the man in front of the store was because he acted so nervous, and I thought at the time he might be the man that had shot the policeman.

Mary Brock - Mrs. BROCK was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans PD 9 112723, dated August 9, 1963, which she identified as being the same person she observed on November 22, 1963, at Ballew's Texaco Service Station.

Robert Brock - ROBERT BROCK was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, at which time he advised he could not positively identify same as being identical with the individual who had passed him at Ballew's Texaco Service Station.

Jimmy Earl Burt - At that moment he caught a glimpse of a man running on the sidewalk on the south side of the street. The man at this point had reached the intersection of 10th and Patton Streets. He described this man as a white male, approximately 5'8". He was wearing a light colored short jacket. BURT stated he could not describe the man further as he was never closer than 50 to 60 yards from the man. He said at one point he did notice the man had a pistol in his right hand. Although he is familiar with hand weapons he said that because of the distance he could not describe the pistol.

Ted Callaway - The number 2 man in the line up that I saw at City Hall is the man I saw with the gun in his hand.

Frank Cimino - He heard four loud noises which sounded like shots and then he heard a women scream. He jumped up. put on his shoes and ran outside the house, and a woman dressed like a waitress was out in front of his residence shouting, "Call the police". She also advised a man had just shot a police officer and stated he had run west on Tenth Street and pointed in the direction of an alley which runs between Tenth Street and Jefferson off Patton Street.

Barbara J. Davis - About 8:00 pm the same day, the police came after me and took me downtown to the city hall where I saw this man in a lineup. The #2 man in a 4-man lineup was the same man I saw in my yard, also the one that was unloading the gun.

Virginia R. Davis - The man that was unloading the gun was the same man I saw tonight as number 2 man in a line up.

John Gibson - Mr. GIBSON. I saw them going down what I would call the two big center aisles, and then the next thing was--Oswald was standing in the aisle with a gun in his hand.

Sam Guinyard - The #2 man in the lineup I saw at the city hall is the same man I saw running with the pistol in his hand.

Francis Kinnith - KINNETH was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, at which time he advised he could not identify OSWALD as being the individual he had observed leaving the scene of the shooting of the Dallas police officer.

LJ Lewis - LEWIS was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans PD No. 112723, dated August 9, 1963, at which time Mr. LEWIS advised due to the distance from which he observed the individual he would hesitate to state whether the individual was identical with OSWALD.

Helen L. Markham - Mrs. MARKHAM. Number two was the man I saw shoot the policeman.

BM Patterson - PATTERSON was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD at which time he identified said photograph as being identical with the individual he had observed on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, running south on Patton Avenue with a weapon in his hand.

Warren Reynolds - REYNOLDS was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, at which time he advised he is of the opinion OSWALD is the person he had followed on the afternoon of November 22, 1963; however, he would hesitate to definitely identify OSWALD as the individual.

Harold Russell - RUSSELL positively identified a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans Police Department # 112723, taken August 9, 1963, as being identical with the individual he had observed at the scene of the shooting of Dallas Police Officer J.D. TIPPIT on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, at Dallas, Texas.

William W. Scoggins - Mr. SCOGGINS. I identified the one we are talking about, Oswald. I identified him.

William A. Smith - He said he was too far away from the individual to positively identify him but he said he was a white male, about 5' 7" to 5'8", 20 to 25 years of age, 150-160, wearing a white shirt, light brown jacket and dark pants.

Jack R Tatum - I heard three shots in rapid (illegible)I went right through the intersection, stopped my car and turned to look back. I then saw the officer lying on the street and saw this young white man standing near the front of the squad car. Next. this man with a gun in his hand ran toward the back of the squad car, but instead of running away he stepped into the street and shot the police officer who was lying in the street. At that point this young man looked around him and then started to walk away in my direction and as he started to break into a small run in my direction, I sped off in my auto. All I saw him to the intersection and run south on Patton towards Jefferson.

Cheers Fiver

Can anyone name a single murder case where the culprit was identified by so many people but it turned out that they were all lying or mistaken? I wonder what would be the chances of such an incredible error occurring? A million to one? A billion to one?

When we add all of the above to the fact that the gun that killed Tippit was in Oswald’s possession on arrest then we can state with 100% certainty that Lee Harvey Oswald shot Officer Tippit. To deny this is an embarrassment to evidence, reason, logic and basic common sense. If anyone had denied this weight of evidence in any other case they would have been measured up for a straight jacket. Yet this is what we get.

[cobalt]

Warren Reynolds' memory did improve after he was shot. He had given media interviews in the wake of the Tippit shooting but seemed not to interest the DPD until greater publicity aroused the interest of the FBI who took a statement from him on 21st January, nearly two months after the crime. His claim about being hesitant to identify Oswald as the man fleeing the scene will date from then.

On the 23rd January Reynolds was shot in the head.

By the time Reynolds testified before the Warren Commission in June 1964 his head had cleared and he was no longer hesitant. He stated clearly that in his mind Oswald was the man he had seen. His testimony is interesting on two other counts. When questioned about whether he felt he was being intimidated as a Tippit witness he referred to an incident when someone had tried to lure his 10 year old daughter into a car. The WC were keen to dismiss any connection between these two incidents and the Tippit murder but my reading of Reynolds' testimony is that he was keeping an open mind on the matter.
He was also in direct contact with General Edwin Walker, he of the alleged earlier Oswald assassination, later disgraced following an attempted importuning of an undercover policeman in a public place. By Reynolds' account Walker did not think there was any link between his being a witness in the Tippit case and his subsequent misfortune. However when pushed by the WC to explain in more detail what their conversations had been about, Reynolds preferred not to say.

[cobalt]

Re-reading recent posts I think that HS and myself have been at cross purposes.

I think HS has explained that Mark Lane's incoherent witness was actually Helen Markham and not Acquilla Clemmons. I had not been aware of his clarification.

I am happy to describe Helen Markham as a totally unreliable witness. The WC regarded her as bonkers and Mark Lane should have been able to judge likewise. If her evidence was discounted on both sides of the debate I think we would lose little. I assume Mark Lane used her interview in so far as it partly corroborated the description of the killer given by Acquilla Clemmons, a far more substantial witness in my opinion. 'Chunky, thick wavy hair' etc.

So why on earth did WC ever bother to call Helen Markham? They had more credible witnesses to the Tippit murder than her after all. Even at the WC she failed to clearly say what she had seen, despite referring rather embarrassingly to earlier coaching. Her ID of Oswald reads like something out of The Usual Suspects. I suspect it is because she alone (I stand to be corrected) was actually adamant that she aw LHO with a gun in his hand shoot Tippit. All of the other witnesses can (to WC level of proof) identify a gunman before or after the act, or Oswald clearing his gun, or Oswald running away a street away but nobody else could pull the whole thing together other than Mrs. Markham; in between her attacks of the vapours. ammonia being pushed under her nostrils.

But as a CT advocate I can't resist a little cherry picking any more than the WC. Helen Markham was I assume a creature of habit who caught the same bus at the same time every day to return to her waitressing duties. So her timing of the Tippit killing is on the surface pretty reliable, unless she was a bad timekeeper but I am not aware this has ever been alleged. So by her testimony, confused and almost worthless as it is, the one part that might have some substance is the time she left her house. One Tippit witness claimed that Mrs. Markham was anxious about missing her bus to work amidst the drama. Which indicates that the Tippit killing was outwith Oswald's walking time from his rooming house.

[Fiver]

Warren Reynolds' memory did improve after he was shot. He had given media interviews in the wake of the Tippit shooting but seemed not to interest the DPD until greater publicity aroused the interest of the FBI who took a statement from him on 21st January, nearly two months after the crime. His claim about being hesitant to identify Oswald as the man fleeing the scene will date from then.

On the 23rd January Reynolds was shot in the head.

By the time Reynolds testified before the Warren Commission in June 1964 his head had cleared and he was no longer hesitant. He stated clearly that in his mind Oswald was the man he had seen.

Here's Warren Reynolds' testimony to the WC.

* He's gone from saying "he is of the opinion OSWALD is the person he had followed on the afternoon of November 22, 1963; however, he would hesitate to definitely identify OSWALD as the individual." to

Mr. LIEBELER. You later identified that man as Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr.REYNOLDS. In my mind.
Mr. LIEBELER. Your mind, that is what I mean.
Mr.REYNOLDS. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. When you saw his picture in the newspaper and on television? Is that right?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Yes; unless you have somebody that looks an awful lot like him there.

Reynold's initial view was the guy looked like Oswald, but he wasn't 100% certain.

* That's as good as Howard Brennan, the best ID for Oswald shooting JFK - the guy looked like Oswald, but he wasn't certain. If the Conspiracy wanted better witness testimony, why would they do it for the Tippit murder instead of the JFK murder?

* Oswald was ID'd with certainty by Ted Callaway Barbara J. Davis, Virginia R. Davis, Sam Guinyard, Helen L. Markham, BM Patterson, Harold Russell, and William W. Scoggins. The Conspiracy didn't need better identification from Reynolds.

[FISHY1118]

I haven’t a clue what you mean about context Fishy and I suspect that no one else does too. Perhaps you could point the that part of the quote that you posted which mentions a shot from the front?


“In the book Five Days in November by Clint Hill and Lisa McCubbin Hill, the agent recalls the grisly scene: 'The president, without a doubt, has suffered a fatal wound. 'My God! They have shot his head off!' Mrs. Kennedy shrieks. 'Get us to a hospital!' I scream at the driver. 'Get us to a hospital!' As the car accelerates, I wedge myself on top of the rear seat, trying to get my body above and behind Mrs. Kennedy and the president, to shield them from whatever shots might still be coming...In the car, Mrs. Kennedy is in shock. Staring at her husband, his head bleeding into her lap, she moans, 'Jack, oh, Jack. What have they done?' And then, 'I have his brains in my hands.' Quietly, she adds, 'I love you, Jack.' Nothing else is said as we speed down Stemmons Freeway at about eighty miles an hour. I turn my head and my sunglasses blow off...Time has stopped. It feels like an eternity before we arrive at the hospital. In reality, it has been just four minutes since the shots rang out in Dealey Plaza.'“

The part in red seems to tell us quite clearly that Hill hadn’t a clue which direction the shots were coming from.

Someone saying something on the internet isn’t evidence Fishy. You appear not to understand this. ‘See it/believe it’ isn’t the route to truth. It’s simply confirmation bias.

The fact you have totally misrepresented Hill again tells me a lot . His job was to protect the President and Frst Lady!!! . He would have had no idea that there wasnt going to be more shots fired once he reach the Limo , FFS Herlock his telling you thats what he was doing ,please listen and stop inventing and twisting things ,.What his not saying or giving any opinion what so ever is ''WHERE THE DIRECTION OF THE SHOTS WERE COMING FROM .Tell me ,what has that got to do with his quote about the back of JFKs head ?!!!! Its so tiring going down rabbit holes all the time you get off topic .

As for ''someone saying somthing'' on the internet goes , again you are not paying enough attention ,or maybe you do it because of desperation either way, the above isnt ''someone'' Herlock ,its CLINT HILL remember his was there on the day and saw JFKsright side of his head with a massive hole shot out. Thats what he testified too, as did the doctors at parkland did , as did so many others that ive shown proof of . These people where alive before you even took your first breath and somehow you rather believe in a lie than the people who saw the assassiantion with there own eyes !!!, You cant just keep useing the excuse eveybody LIED , WERE MISTAKEN , WERE IDIOTS , NEVER EXISTED, AND NOW YOUR LATEST ONE , badgered into giving false evidence. Gimmi a break !!!!

Stand by for more Actual Evidence from actual eyewitnesses, who were actually there .

[FISHY1118]

Your wish is my command Fishy.

In 1990 an unemployed salesman called Ricky White called a Press conference at the JFK Assassination Information Centre in Dallas to claim that his late father Roscoe, a deceased former police officer, was the Grassy Knoll gunman. He claimed to have learned this from his father’s diary which he, rather unsurprisingly, failed to ever produce.

Then, step forward barking mad Beverley Oliver who claimed to have seen White in Dealey Plaza, in his police uniform, walking away from the Knoll. She had claimed to conspiracy theorist Gary Shaw in 1970 that she was the elusive ‘Babushka Lady,’ even though she would only have been 17 at the time and photographs of her showed her to have been a slim teenager whilst the Babushka Lady was clearly a more matronly figure. Then in 1988 she backtracked and said that she wasn’t the Babushka Lady after all but that she was ‘somewhere’ in Dealey Plaza! She wouldn’t say where (maybe she was in the drain?) Oliver couldn’t have seen even name the make and type of camera that she’d used to film the assassination but, sadly for her, that type of camera didn’t exist until 6 years later! Oops! Barking mad Bev also claimed to have had a 2 hour private conversation in a Miami Hotel room with Richard Nixon in 1968. She even contacted James Earl Ray’s defence team in 1997 claiming to have explosive evidence about the assassination of Martin Luther King. Did she? You’ll never guess. No..she didn’t. Even the majority of conspiracy theorists give Oliver a wide berth. One of the most respected conspiracy theorists, Paul Hoch, said that Beverley Oliver had “very low inherent credibility.” He even to,d the HSCA not to bother with her. This is the kind of proven fantasist that conspiracy theorists rely on. Oliver Stone had this obvious liar as a consultant on his three hour lie ‘JFK!’ Hardly a surprise.

On 22nd November 1963 Roscoe White hadn’t even begun his police training yet. It began on December 4th, so Oliver couldn’t have seen him in Dealey Plaza in his uniform. White’s son said, and this is a cracker, that he recalled his father and 4 other men practising for the assassination. The fact that he wasn’t yet 3 at the time didn’t appear to bother him.

So Fishy…that’s White utterly demolished. Even the lunatic fringe of conspiracy theorist don’t have time for White or Oliver but if you are willing to nail your colours to the mast by being taken in by this tissue of nonsense then it’s up to you. It just makes it easy for the Lone Gunman side to show that you will believe anything that you read.

You call that proof !!!!! you have to be joking right , you just told a story based of a whole bunch of circumstances that add up to nothing . Poor Try.

Let me just blow your little fantasy out of the water tho , So its ''not possible'' for Rosco White to have had access to a police uniform before he started his training on the fouth? Your not much of a detective herlock , if he was the shooter known as ''Badgeman'', what better way than to use a police uniform?he surely would have had access to.

[FISHY1118]

Officer JD Tippit was out of his assigned District 78 in the far south of Dallas at the time he was shot with four bullets, one to the head. The time of the shooting is disputed but it appears to be shortly after 1:00pm in Oak Cliff, Dallas outside 410E 10^th Street.

His murder was attributed to Lee Harvey Oswald, allegedly on the run from shooting Kennedy on Elm Street, Dealey Plaza, Dallas, at 12:30 pm from the 6^th Floor of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD). But there was no credible explanation as to why Tippit was at 10^th and Patton, nor what he was doing. There was also no credible explanation as to how Oswald left his lodgings at 1026 N Beckley at 1:03 pm-1:04 pm and then allegedly walked 0.9 miles to shoot Tippit.

Temple Bowley chanced on the post-event murder scene at 1:10pm and announced the crime on Tippit’s own car radio. (James DiEugenio, The JFK Assassination: The Evidence Today, p. 127) An ambulance from two blocks away that had already been called by a neighbor arrived as Bowley was finishing that call. The ambulance then delivered Tippit’s body to Beckley Methodist Hospital, he was declared dead on arrival by a doctor at 1:15pm.

The assailant was seen walking from the east, whilst the route Oswald would have needed to have taken was from the north and west. There are plenty of other discrepancies of witness descriptions of the Tippit assailant that cast doubt on him being Oswald. I


More than one person was reported to have been on the scene, and a neighbor in an apartment at 113 ½ S Patton, with a view across the rear of 410 E 10^th, DorisHolan, said she saw ''two police officers present when Tippit was murdered''. She said a police car pulled up in the alley behind 404 and 410 East 10^th that could only be accessed from the alley behind the houses that ran from Denver to Patton.

More on that later. Just to say, her story has been misinformed by some on the basis she lived opposite of the murder scene and couldn’t see the back of 410 E 10^th. However, she had moved from 409 E 10^th to 113 S Patton in September 1963 and was living there on 22 November 1963. 113 ½ S Patton had a clear elevated view only 140 feet distance to the back of 410 E 10^th and rear driveway and rear alley that the driveway was accessed from.



Now heres the best bit , Doris Holan and Aquila Clemons confirm each others claims , well ill be dammed. !!! Did Mark Lane force her to testimony to a lie to herlock ?








This is the secondhand telling of Doris Holan's story which I think is another version of the Ted Callaway and Acquila Clemons stories of Callaway's interaction with the fleeing killer, on Patton.

Mrs. Holan told Brownlow that the heavy-set man in the blue jacket turned down the driveway and walked out into the middle of the street . . . and then he turned to the man in the white jacket, Brownlow said, "and began to do this (gesturing with his arm as if to say 'Go on')--like telling him to leave, get out of there."

Here is Ted Callaway:



"'I heard shots coming from the direction behind the lot there,' Callaway said. 'Well, I come running of the side of the porch and toward the sidewalk that runs along Patton. Before I got to the sidewalk, I could see this taxi cab parked down on Patton. I saw the cabdriver [Scoggins] beside his cab, and I saw this man [the Tippit killer] run through this hedge up there on the corner [corner 10th and Patton, the Davis sisters-in-law apartments]. He runs from the yard--jumped the little hedge--and at the time he had a gun in his right hand (...) The man then cut from one side of the street to the other. That would be the east side of Patton over to the west side of Patton. I went the remaining distance, probably fifty feet in all, to the sidewalk on Patton Street, and watched the man come south on Patton toward me. The man was not in a dead run, but rather a good trot (...) I hollered out to him, 'Hey man, what the hell's going on?' That's exactly what I was wondering. At first, I thought he was a plain clothes officer. That's the first thing that entered my mind, that maybe he was after somebody. That's why I hollered at him. If I'd thought he had just killed somebody, I certainly would not have done that. So, he slowed his pace--almost halted for a minute--and turned and looked at me. He appeared to be very pale, but not excited. He said something to me, which I could not understand, and shrugged his shoulders as if to say he did not know what was happening. Then, he slowed down and started walking." (Myers, With Malice, 130-132)

Here is Acquila Clemons in the 1960s interview by Mark Lane on Utube. Acquila, standing and crying, was placed by another witness at the northwest corner of Patton and Tenth, with a clear line of sight of Patton where she saw the gunman and Callaway.



"Yes there was one on the other side of the street. All I know is he told him to go on. (waves hand outward) He told him to go on. (motions outward) He said, 'go on' (waves outward) (...) They weren't together, they went this way from each other. (extends both arms in opposite directions) The one that did the shooting went this way (extends one arm one way). The other one went straight down past the street that way (extends other arm the other way)."

Following Callaway's exchange with the gunman on Patton in which Callaway had called out, then watched the gunman go around to the west on Jefferson, Callaway turned around, returned to the sidewalk (if he had gone beyond it into the street), and walked north on the sidewalk of Patten to Tenth, then east to the site of the Tippit cruiser. But as it would appear to an observer looking out the window of Mrs. Holan's second-storey apartment on the corner of Patton and that alley, Callaway would have looked at first like he was headed back "up the alley", as he turned around and started to walk back the way he came. By this reconstruction, that would be the last Mrs. Holan saw of Callaway from that window, for at that point--in Mrs. Holan's story as told secondhand--she then left the window and got dressed so she could go outside and went to the scene on Tenth. But in her final moments at the window I think Mrs. Holan saw Callaway turn around--after the killer had continued north on Patton--and leaving the window before seeing Callaway walk north on the sidewalk, interpreted what she saw, as Callaway going back up the alley, even though Callaway actually turned north on the Patton sidewalk toward Tenth. But Mrs. Holan did not see that because she had left the window and was now getting dressed.

It will never be known for sure how much of the Doris Holan story is garbled and/or embellished, or mixed up with things told out of order, through Brownlow's mediation and the assumption on the part of the mediators doing the retelling that Mrs. Holan was speaking from a Tenth Street location line of sight. There is no tape or written statement by which to know Mrs. Holan's exact words, what she actually said. But I do not think her story is fabricated out of whole cloth. Again, we would not know what her true vantage point was (on Patton), or that she was home that day in a position to see, if it were not for Myers' own research itself. While showing the Brownlee and Pulte version of Doris Holan's story had numerous problems and incongruities and was based on the wrong address assumption, what was missed after that deconstructive work was focus on what Doris Holan would have seen and credibly did see from her actual vantage point. If she was there and was home that day, which she was, it would be extraordinary if she would not go to the window to look out after hearing the shots. And if she did do what any normal person would do upon hearing those shots, look out the window, it would be extraordinary if she did not witness, did not see Callaway out there on Patton, and probably the killer too on Patton, and their interaction. Which is what is there in Mrs. Holan's story if one sorts through the garbling in the secondhand versions by which the story comes to us. And consider that if she is giving a version of seeing the Callaway/killer shouting interaction, that was not possible for Mrs. Holan to have witnessed from the vantage point of the Tenth Street address mistakenly assumed by Brownlow and Pulte and all who have relied upon that version of Doris Holan's story. It becomes explicable--starts to make sense--only after Myers' work in establishing where Mrs. Holan actually was living at the time Tippit was killed.

And so this is a roundabout way, after making this argument for rehabilitation of the Mrs. Holan story with a different interpretation, to say that Doris Holan becomes a witness to, testimony of, a police cruiser not Tippit's in the immediate vicinity of the Tippit killing, at the time of the Tippit killing, in agreement with the three other sources suggesting the same of above. A fifth possible testimony to the same, Guinyard who allegedly told Brownlow in 1970 that he saw a police car in the alley, unfortunately cannot be verified at all. On the one hand, who knows if he told Brownlow that, maybe he did, maybe he didn't. On the other hand, given these other lines pointing to the same thing, it is plausible that he did. An objection that Guinyard did not volunteer that detail to FBI or the Warren Commission when being questioned I do not think has much weight in itself. Ron Bulman

The Warren Commission is the Lie .

[FISHY1118]

Three witnesses who were ignored by Dallas Police and never testified before the Warren Commission were Acquilla Clemons, Frank Wright, and Doris Holan. These people told very different stories than the official Warren Report witnesses. '

'OF COURSE THEY DID''







Mrs. Clemons was taking care of an elderly client in a house on E. 10^th Street just west of the intersection with Patton Avenue. Clemons saw the police car stop on the next block but said there were two persons in the vicinity of Tippit’s patrol car, not just the man who spoke with the officer.

After Clemons had stepped back into her client’s home, she heard gunshots. Hurrying back outside, Clemons saw Officer Tippit lying on the ground next to his squad car and two suspicious people running away in opposite directions. One man was tall and slender, while the other man she described as short and chunky. The shorter man was reloading his pistol and escaping south on Patton Avenue. Clemons said this man was not Lee Harvey Oswald.

Frank Wright lived at the corner of E 10^th & Denver, just east of where Tippit was slain. Wright said he was standing in his living room near the front door when he heard the gunshots. Wright opened the door and stepped onto his porch, just in time to see Tippit’s body roll over and come to rest in the street. Next Mr. Wright observed a man running west from the police car. This man jumped into the driver’s seat of an old, grey coupe and drove away going west on E. 10^th. A second man in a long-sleeved coat, possibly a trench coat, then stepped into the street. The man appeared to be standing over Tippit, looking down. This second individual then returned to the sidewalk and disappeared out of sight onto one of the properties on the south side of the block.

Doris Holan lived in a second-floor apartment directly opposite the scene of Tippit’s murder. Her front window afforded the Dallas hotel employee a commanding view of the tragedy. Just after 1 o’clock Holan, who had been sitting in a chair smoking a cigarette, heard the gunshots. Startled, Holan dropped her cigarette but picked it up and put the cigarette on an ash tray. She then hustled to her front window and pulled back one side of the curtain. Holan saw a young man who looked similar to Oswald beginning to walk west away from Tippit’s police car. The movement of Holan’s curtain caught the attention of the suspect as he began to walk away, because he paused for a moment and looked up at Holan’s window, then turned again and began hurrying toward Patton. Holan next saw a police car roll forward from the alleyway behind 10^th and move towards the street using a narrow driveway between the two houses. A man in a long coat got out, stepped into the street, looked down at Tippit’s body, then walked back up the driveway to the police car. The second police car then backed up out of sight into the rear alleyway. Holan knew this was a police vehicle because she could see the “cherry” on top. (Although Dale Myers has tried to discredit Holan, as Tom Gram has shown, he has not succeeded. Click here for that discussion)

Patton Avenue witness Sam Guinyard would later confide to researcher Michael Brownlow that he too had seen police activity in that alleyway at about the time Tippit was killed. The car lot where Guinyard worked sat adjacent to E 10^th Street’s rear alleyway. The problem is, according to Dallas Police records, no other Dallas police were known to be in that immediate vicinity. Summary


The witness testimony in the Tippit murder case is so confusing and contradictory that it tends to exonerate Lee Oswald as much as it implicates him. Most witnesses were either too far away or had only a fleeting glimpse of the killer to make a solid identification. Oswald was wearing a long-sleeved brown shirt that day, which no one in the vicinity of 10^th & Patton remembered seeing. When we factor in the tainted police lineups as well as the seemingly impossible time element in getting Oswald to the crime scene in time to be the shooter, the case against the 24-year-old tends to fall apart. The Dallas Police Report had the killer walking west, not east, as did all that day’s witnesses except for the roundly discredited Mrs. Markham. Someone other than Lee Harvey Oswald almost assuredly killed Officer Tippit.

There can be little doubt that a person or persons unknown impersonated Lee Oswald leading up to the murders on November 22, 1963. How can anyone be positive that Lee Oswald shot Tippit at just after 1 p.m. when so many factors argue against it?

Meanwhile, two credible witnesses at the Texas Theater put the real Lee Oswald in the movie theater at the time J.D. Tippit was being slain several blocks to the east. We know the real Lee Oswald was in the movie theater because he was soon arrested there. Patron Jack Davis said Oswald was there at about the time the 1:15 movie began, and was oddly moving from seat to seat, as if looking for someone. He even briefly sat next to Davis. Theater manager and ticket-taker “Butch Burroughs” said Oswald came in between 1:00 and 1:07 p.m., and that he sold popcorn to Lee Oswald at nearly 1:15 p.m. If true, how could Lee Oswald have murdered J.D. Tippit?

[FISHY1118]

That Nasty Palmprint



Heres an idea , lets do a Mock Trial with this infomation Presented to the jury .





The Dallas Police....developed by powder and lifted a latent palmprint from the underside of the barrel....the latent palmprint was identified as the right palm of Lee Harvey Oswald. ( Report, pgs. 565-566 )

This is what the Commission's Report said about the palmprint, probably the most important piece of evidence tying Oswald to the rifle.

But it's not what the Report says, as much as what it learned in testimony and chose not to say.

The Report CHOSE NOT TO SAY how the Dallas were able to "develop" the palmprint using a black powder on the dark surface of the barrel.

The Report CHOSE NOT TO SAY that it never corroborated that Lt. J.C.Day lifted the palmprint. It chose not to say that Day never told the FBI that the palmprint was on the rifle.

The Report CHOSE NOT TO SAY that Lt. Day failed to photograph the palmprint in situ before lifting it.

The Report CHOSE NOT TO SAY that contrary to Day's claim that there was a remnant of print left on the barrel after the lift, the FBI found no residual of any palmprint or that any lift had occurred.

The Report CHOSE NOT TO SAY that no mention of the discovery of a palmprint was made known until the evening of November 24th, after Oswald was dead.

This narrative is not to reject the palmprint as being Oswald's, nor is it to reject that it was lifted off the gun barrel, but rather it is to refudiate the manner in which it was obtained.

I do not accept that the palmprint was lifted off of the barrel of the rifle on November 22nd, but rather sometime between November 24th and November 26th, well after Oswald was dead.

And the following evidence supports my theory.

Let's start with Lt. Day's story and look at the evidence that refutes it.



LT. DAY'S STORY

Sometime on the evening of the assassination, Dallas Police Lt. J.C. Day allegedly found a palmprint on the underside of the barrel of the rifle.

The palmprint was reportedly under the wooden stock and could not have been disturbed without disassembling the rifle. Day testified that he lifted it from the underside of the barrel, not the wooden stock.

Mr. BELIN. Let me clarify the record. By that you mean you found it on the metal or you mean you found it on the wood ?

Mr. DAY. On the metal, after removing the wood. ( 4 H 260 )

At 11:45pm, FBI Agent Vincent Drain picked up the CE 139 rifle and flew with it to Washington aboard an Air Force plane to be examined by FBIHQ.

Early the next morning, the rifle was examined by Latona along with the cartridges and the clip. He processed the entire weapon using GRAY POWDER. In order to do this, he completely disassembled the rifle. His examination could find no identifiable prints.

Lt. Day testified that when he released the rifle to the FBI at 11:45pm on Friday, he thought that "the print ......still remained on there...there were traces of ridges still on the barrel." ( 4 H 261-262 )

But when the rifle arrived at FBI Headquarters, there was no trace of the print.

Mr. LATONA. I was not successful in developing any prints at all on the weapon. I also had one of the firearms examiners dismantle the weapon and I processed the complete weapon, all parts, everything else. And no latent prints of value were developed.

Mr. EISENBERG. Does that include the clip ?

Mr. LATONA. It included the clip, it included the bolt, it included the underside of the barrel which is covered by the stock. ( 4 H 23 )

On 11/23, there was no palmprint on the rifle.


HOW DO YOU DEVELOP A PRINT ON A DARK SURFACE USING BLACK FINGERPRINT POWDER ?

When dusting for fingerprints, we're always trained to use black powder for lighter surfaces and the lighter grey powder for dark surfaces. This is Criminal Investigation 101. It's common sense that you'd use a powder that brings the print out, not blends the print in with the background.

The point was made to the Commission during testimony by its FBI expert on fingerprints, Sebastian Latona:

These powders come in various colors. We use a black and a gray. The black powder is used on objects which are white or light to give a resulting contrast of a black print on a white background. We use the gray powder on objects which are black or dark in order to give you a resulting contrast of a white print on a dark or black background. ( 4 H 4 )

But Lt. Day testified that everything he dusted, he dusted using black powder. ( 4 H 259 )

The Commission never asked him why he would use a black powder to bring out a print on the dark colored barrel. More importantly, how he was able to dust a print on a dark surface with black powder without damaging it.



THERE IS NO CORROBORATION THAT LT. DAY LIFTED THE PALMPRINT ON 11/22

No witness can corroborate the act of the lifting of the print. Day told the FBI that "he had no assistance when working with the prints on the rifle and that he and he alone did the examination and lifting of the palmprint from the underside of the barrel ( CE 3145, 26 H 832 )."

Not only were there no witnesses to Lt. Day's discovery and lifting of the palmprint, he apparently told two different stories, one to the Commission and one to the FBI.

In his April 1964 testimony, Lt. Day told the Commission that he could not identify the palmprint as being Oswald's:

The palmprint again that I lifted appeared to be his right palm, but I didn't get to work enough on that to fully satisfy myself that it was his palm. ( 4 H 262 )

Mr. BELIN. Did you make a positive identification of any palmprint or fingerprint ?

Mr. DAY. Not off the rifle or slug at that time ( ibid. ).

But in September 1964, Day told the FBI that he made a tentative identification of the palmprint as Oswald's on the evening of 11/22 and only told two people about it, Chief Curry and Capt. Fritz. Day said that "he could not remember the exact time he made the identification nor the exact time that he told them", but it was "prior to the time he released the rifle to SA Agent Vincent Drain" at 11:45 pm. ( CE 3145, 26 H 832 )

During the period that oswald was in custody, both Curry and Fritz were reeling off an abundance of information to the press, yet neither one mentioned the incriminating palmprint. ( CE 2141-2173 )

If Day had lifted a palmprint and hadn't been able to identify it on the evening of the 22nd, why didn't he send the lifted print off to the FBI with the rest of the evidence for identification ?

If he had told Chief Curry about lifting the palmprint and tentatively identifying it as Oswald's, why did the Chief express disappointment the next day that Oswald's prints had not been found on the rifle ?



11/23: CHIEF CURRY EXPRESSES DISAPPOINTMENT THAT OSWALD'S PRINTS HAVE NOT BEEN FOUND ON THE RIFLE

The next day, when asked by a reporter about fingerprints on the rifle, Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry never mentioned that police had lifted a palmprint from the rifle the night before.

In fact, he implied the opposite, lamenting, "if we can put his prints on the rifle" meaning that as of Saturday the 23rd, police still had not found Oswald's prints on the weapon.

https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/curry-if-we-can-put-his-prints-on-the-rifle.mp4

This exchange was ( according to Lt. Day ) AFTER Day had notified him that he had lifted a palmprint from the underside of the barrel and identified it as Oswald's.

So why is the Chief expressing disappointment at not having Oswald's prints on the rifle when he knows a palmprint has been found and identified as Oswald's ?

Because he hadn't been told. The palmprint didn't exist on 11/23.

The Chief wasn't the only one who Lt. Day never told about the palmprint.



LT. DAY NEVER TOLD THE FBI ABOUT THE PALMPRINT

Not only did Lt. Day not tell the Chief or Capt. Fritz about the palmprint, he never told the FBI about it.

But FBI agent Sebastian Latona, who examined the rifle in Washington on 11/23, testified that, "we had no personal knowledge of any palmprint having been developed on the rifle." ( 4 H 24 )

If the palmprint was on the rifle on 11/22, why was there no verbal or written communication to the FBI from Lt. Day addressing it ?

Day never communicated it to the FBI because the palmprint didn't exist on 11/22.

Of course, as has been seen many times in this case, whether or not there was a remnant of palmprint left on the barrel and whether the FBI had been told about it could have been resolved by Agent Drain, who picked up the rifle from the Dallas Police both times, on 11/22 and on 11/26.

But Agent Drain was never called to testify.

Not only did the FBI have no knowledge of the palmprint's existence on 11/23, when they examined the rifle, they found no evidence that a palmprint had existed.

Sebastian Latona testified that, "There was no indication on this rifle as to the existence of any other ( than the trigger guard ) prints." ( ibid. )



LT. DAY TOOK NO PHOTOGRAPH OF THE PALMPRINT

Lt Day testified that this omission was because he was ordered by Chief Curry to "go no further with the processing, it was to be released to the FBI for them to complete..." ( 4 H 260-261 )

But the normal procedure in lifting fingerprints is to photograph the dusted print first, then lift it, as described by Latona:

"Our recommendation in the FBI is simply in every procedure to photograph and then lift." ( 4 H 41 )

Lt. Day knew this, because he attended, "an advanced latent-print school conducted in Dallas by the Federal Bureau of Investigation" ( 4 H 250 ).

He admitted that "it was customary to photograph fingerprints in most instances prior to lifting them." ( CE 3145, 26 H 832 )

If the Chief really had interrupted him in the middle of his processing the palmprint, he should have ended up with the photograph and not the lift.

So why did he choose to lift the print before photographing it ? The Commission never asked. It simply accepted his excuse that his work was interrupted by the Chief.

Either Lt. Day neglected every possible procedure that would have provided proof that he found and lifted a palmprint on the rifle, or the palmprint did not exist until 11/24, after Oswald was dead.

The first revelation of the palmprint came on the evening of Sunday, 11/24.


WADE MENTIONS THE PALMPRINT FOR THE FIRST TIME ON 11/24

The first mention of a palmprint was during DA Henry Wade's Sunday night press conference, after Oswald was dead. This except is taken from a video at @Vince Palamara's Youtube Channel:

https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/palmprint-wade.mp4

Wade did not mention the palmprint in any of his interviews on Friday night or Saturday ( CEs 2142, 2169-2173 ), even when asked specifically by reporters if fingerprints had been found on the rifle.

Wade's announcement of a palmprint caused the FBI to take notice. They had examined the rifle the day before and had found no palmprint or any evidence that a lift had been done.

So if the palmprint did not exist before 11/24 but it did exist when the Dallas Police sent it to the FBI on 11/26, how did the police come into possession of it ?

The answer could lie in a visit to the Miller Funeral Home on the night of 11/24.



THE POST MORTEM FINGERPRINTING OF OSWALD

Late in the evening of November 24th, authorities descended on the Miller Funeral Home, where Oswald's corpse was beng prepared for burial. Mortician Paul Groody alleged that during their time there, Oswald's body was fingerprinted.

https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/groody.mp4

The purpose for this post-mortem fingerprinting has never been offically explained. Authorities had Oswald's fingerprints on record from the Marine Corps ( 17 H 289 ), his arrest in New Orleans ( 2 HSCA 379 ) and his arrest in Dallas ( 17 H 282 ).

Why would they need a fourth set of his prints ?

They wouldn't. The only purpose for such a visit would be to finally place Oswald's palmprint on the rifle in order to connect him to the weapon.

IMO, the post-mortem fingerprinting of Oswald's corpse was a ruse to give authorities access to the body and to hide the fact that Oswald's palmprint was being placed on the rifle.


THE LIFTED PALMPRINT IS FINALLY SENT TO THE FBI

Two days after the post mortem fingerprinting, on November 26th, the "lifted palmprint" was finally sent to the FBI with all the other evidence. It is listed as the 14th item on the evidence list. The evidence was turned over once again to Agent Drain.



Although the fingerprint card with the lifted palmprint is dated 11-22-63, that date could have been added to the card anytime between 11-22 and 11-26.




The card is initialled by Capt. George Doughty, who may have cleared up the time and day of the lift, but he was never called to testify.

The FBI received the "lifted palmprint" on November 29th. ( 4 H 24 )



THERE'S ALWAYS AN INDICATION THAT A LIFT HAS BEEN PERFORMED

The Commission concluded that Day's lift was so perfect, that it was the reason that Latona found no trace of the print on the rifle when he examined it, nor "any indication that a lift had been performed." ( Report, pg. 123 )

While it's possible to lift a print without leaving a remnant of that print behind, it is not possible to lift a print without disturbing the power surrounding it.

This video shows how to dust a print on a dark surface and what happens to the surrounding powder when that print is lifted:

https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/lifting-a-fingerprint.mp4

As you can see, the tape pulls all of the powder off in the area under where the tape contacted the surface. This leaves the surface to appear shiny.

The point is that when you lift a fingerprint, there is always evidence that a lift has been done because there is an area surrounding the print where no powder exists.

Even if the lift of the palmprint was so perfect as to completely lift the print off the gun barrel, it would have also taken with it the surrounding loose powder and the absence of that powder would have made it obvious that a lift had been performed.

The fact that the FBI did not find "any indication that a lift had been performed" means that no lift could have been done prior to their examination of 11/23.

As I said in the beginning of this narrative, I'm not contesting that the palmprint came from the rifle or that it was even Oswald's.

I'm contesting the manner in which the palmprint was obtained. I believe the palmprint was placed on the rifle late night 11/24 at the mortuary.

The timeline and evidence surrounding its discovery seems to indicate that the account provided by Lt. Day and accepted by the Warren Commission was not the truth.



CONCLUSION

Lt. Day claimed to have seen and lifted a palmprint from the bottom of the gun barrel under the stock on the evening of November 22nd.

He made no such report about the print.
No one saw him lift the print.

He said he told Chief Curry and Capt. Fritz about it.
Neither ever mentioned it and the Chief acted as if no prints were found on the rifle.
In fact, that's what David Brinkley reported the next day.

https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/rifle-no-fingerprints.mp4

Lt. Day never told the FBI either verbally or in writing about the print that "still remained on there...there were traces of ridges still on the barrel." ( 4 H 261-262 )

When the FBI received the rifle on the 23rd, it found no trace of the palmprint and no evidence that a lift had been performed.

It sent the rifle back to the Dallas Police.

On the evening that the police got the rifle back, DA Henry Wade revealed for the first time the existence of a palmprint.

The Commission was faced with a problem, conflicting stories from the Dallas Police and the FBI. During his testimony for the HSCA, Wesley Liebeler said that the palmprint problem was a rather heated subject matter for the staff. ( 11 HSCA 219 )

In the end, the Commission decided that both Lt. Day and the FBI were correct and that Day's lift of the print was so perfect, the FBI didn't even know the lift had been performed.

Apparently, the HSCA avoided the "heated subject matter" like the plague.

The Committee, although mentioning that "Critics of the Warren Commission have...... argued that..... his palmprint was planted on the barrel" ( HSCA Final Report, pg. 54 ), never took on the topic in its Final Report.

Instead, its footnotes on its conclusions with regard to the palmprint referred to pages 122-124 of the Warren Report.


A FINAL WORD

The FBI suspected that the palmprint had been planted. In a memo, A. Rosen stated that, "the Dallas Police made no mention of this latent palm print for a number of days after the assassination."

He went on to note that Henry Wade made the first mention of the print on November 24th:

"On Sunday, Novenber 24, District Attorney Henry Wade, when questioned before news media, made the statement that a palm print had been found."

His final point was clear: "the existence of this palm print was not volunteered to the Bureau until a specific request was made to the Dallas Police Department." ( FBI file # 62-109060, Sec. 86, pg. 52 )

That request was the request of November 26th, that all the evidence in the case be turned over to the FBI.

In December 1996, ARRB staff member Joseph R. Masih wrote to Jeremy Gunn:

"there is no contemporaneous evidence of the palm print such as a photograph or written record on the date of discovery by Lt. Day. Furthermore, the FBI found no print on the weapon or any evidence that one had been lifted." ( ARRB files of Joseph R. Masih, Palm3.wpd, pg. 2 )

There's no record of it and the FBI never saw it because the palmprint was never lifted on November 22nd.

On the evening of the day Oswald was murdered, its existence was made public and later that night, the palmprint was placed on the rifle under the guise of "fingerprinting the corpse". It was then "lifted" from the barrel of the rifle and the lift was sent to the FBI on November 26th, with the rest of the evidence.

Excellent presentation by Gil Jesus. The official LHO palm print tale is very dubious, to put it mildly.

Lt. Day's testimony regarded the putative Walker bullet is also very squirrelly. Also, there are no photographs of the putative Walker bullet in DPD records.

I suspect the WC was also dubious about the Walker bullet, but could not do much about it or the LHO palm-print.

To earnestly explore either the palm-print or the Walker bullet might lead to the conclusion that evidence tampering had taken place---obviously, that was a road that could not be taken