JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[FISHY1118]

1. Charles Brehm Lied ?

2. Charles Brehm Never Existed ?

3. Charles Brehm was an Idiot and a Moron .?



''Lone Assassin'' Apoligist answer.... ''Yes'' [ Spell Check please George ]

[GBinOz]

Spot on George

Hi Fishy,

Thank you. I should have added a disclaimer to the effect that my opinions are only valid for the day, as the amount of classified documents that have been released, and are to be released, will take years for researchers to analyse. I am always ready to adjust my opinion in the light of new information.

Cheers, George

[Doctored Whatsit]

Hi Doc,

A good question, but certainly not a simple one.

The answer is clouded by the fact that the Secret Service destroyed vital evidence. When JFK's body was taken to the trauma room the Presidential Limousine began being surrounded by people who saw a bullet hole in the windscreen and a bullet dent in the chrome surround on the windscreen. One witness said she put her finger in the bullet hole in the windscreen. The Secret Service removed the vehicle and had the interior fully washed and cleaned and the windscreen replaced. Soon after, the vehicle was completely refurbished. Any opportunity to located projectiles or bullet damage in or to the vehicle was lost.

The first pathologist to examine JFK was Perry. He, and others, noticed a small entry wound in the President's throat which he enlarged for the tracheotomy. At Bethesda the doctors found the bullet wound in the President's back 6" below the shoulder line (T3) but, not knowing about the throat wound (they hadn't spoken to anyone at Parklands), which was obliterated by the tracheotomy, they claimed the bullet was still in the body. When the bullet was found on the stretcher they claimed that it had fallen out of JFK during the heart massage. This is the information conveyed to LBJ by Hoover that I posted earlier. Later when it was found that there were more wounds than could be accounted for by three shots, the story changed to the bullet falling out of Connolly's thigh. But after it's dubious discovery there were some problems with the chain of custody. The SS agents and FBI agents had to log a time and place for when the bullet came into their possession, and scratch their initials on the surface. Later it was discovered that the men on the list claimed to have not seen the bullet and there are initials missing on CE 399. This was the magic bullet that allegedly accounted for seven wounds and reduced the need to only three shots.

Coming back to your question, here is my opinion based on the medical and eye witness accounts. The throat wound was from the front. The first shot from the rear missed and hit the kerb, and fragments of bullet and/or concrete hit James Tague. There was a shot that put a skid mark on a manhole cover and lodged in the grass. This bullet was removed by a blond agent who never handed it in. There are a series of photos that show him examining the skid mark, picking up the bullet and putting it in his pocket. The skid mark's direction indicated it came from the Records Building and years later when the roof was repaired a cartridge case was found lodged in a crack. The next shot from the rear hit JFK in the back and he slumped over to the left onto Jackie. The next shot from the rear hit Connolly. The fatal shot came from the front left, through JFK's temple and blew out the right occipital. There were eighteen doctors and nurses who described these wounds (before the chain of custody was broken when the body left Parklands) and eighty eight witnesses (some of whom were only feet from JFK when the fatal shot hit) said there were shots from the grassy knoll. If you watch the video of the president's press secretary near the time of JFK's death indicating where the fatal shot came from, he points to his right temple. There is now a suggestion using the expertly synchronised ZP/Audio file that there may have been another shot from the rear 0.7 seconds after the fatal shot.

You might expect a rebuttal from those who weren't even born at the time along the lines of "no, no, no,...the doctors, nurses and eye witnesses were all lying or mistaken, I know the truth and can prove it, 100%...... there were these curtain rods, you see.."

Sorry to be long winded, but I hope I addressed your question.

Cheers, George

Hi George,

Let me say that I have an open mind on this issue - as with almost all of this complex event, for every known "fact" there is an alternative "fact", and we have to dismiss one "fact" in order to accept another. The Dallas police, the FBI, and the CIA all withheld evidence from the Warren Commission, though probably to protect their mistakes than for any other reason. Much of what they said at the time and since is disputed. This is why disagreements are quite unavoidable, and why I retain an open mind.

I will take exception with you on your statement that there was an "entry wound" in Kennedy's throat - I think that it would be more accurate to say that the first doctor deemed it to be an "entry wound". He admitted that he didn't turn Kennedy's body over to look for an exit wound. It could have been an entry or exit wound. Yes, at Bethesda, they saw the wound in Kennedy's back a little below the neck and couldn't find what they deemed to be an exit wound. This was, they decided after talking to the hospital doctors, concealed by the tracheotomy. So we have one set of doctors believing that the throat was the entry wound, and one set believing that it was an exit wound.

My judgement is clouded by the fact that both Connally and his wife said there were just three shots, all from the rear. I think that Connally believed that the first shot hit Kennedy in the back, the second shot hit him, and the third shot hit Kennedy in the head. The "official" WC version, I think, is that the first shot missed, the second hit Kennedy and Connally, and the third shot was the fatal one. Yes there were witnesses who thought shots came from the grassy knoll, but there were also a huge number who reckoned they came only from the TSBD building. Other witnesses suggested that anyone with a rifle on the grassy knoll must have been visible to many people. Someone suggested there was a puff of smoke on the knoll, and someone else said it was just someone smoking a cigarette etc etc... You pay your money and you take your choice ...

I was around at the time - a teenager - and I remember the time very clearly, but it was always a confused jumble of events and beliefs. I do recall an American "expert" on TV giving his verdict on the single bullet theory. As far as I can remember he was a pathologist with a considerable amount of experience of deaths by guns and rifles, and not involved in the case. He said that the single bullet theory was certainly possible, but that he would normally have expected more damage to the bullet. However, he added, and stressed, that there would be a huge difference in the shape of the bullet according to exactly what it hit. If it hit major bones full on, he would have expected significant damage to the bullet, but a glancing blow on a rib would severely damage the rib, whilst only possibly marking the side of the bullet. The wrist is a somewhat open joint, and a bullet could pass through hitting very little solid matter. He therefore deemed the single bullet theory absolutely possible, and
although most times the bullet would be significantly distorted, it was quite possible that it would be only nominally marked. Prior to his statement, I had no time for the single bullet theory, afterwards I accepted it as possible - though not proven.

I do not accept from what I have seen, that Kennedy was slumped out of the line of fire when Connally was shot, although the Zapruder film is hardly conclusive.

Thanks for your detailed observations.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Doc,

A good question, but certainly not a simple one.

The answer is clouded by the fact that the Secret Service destroyed vital evidence. When JFK's body was taken to the trauma room the Presidential Limousine began being surrounded by people who saw a bullet hole in the windscreen and a bullet dent in the chrome surround on the windscreen. One witness said she put her finger in the bullet hole in the windscreen. The Secret Service removed the vehicle and had the interior fully washed and cleaned and the windscreen replaced. Soon after, the vehicle was completely refurbished. Any opportunity to located projectiles or bullet damage in or to the vehicle was lost.

The first pathologist to examine JFK was Perry. He, and others, noticed a small entry wound in the President's throat which he enlarged for the tracheotomy. At Bethesda the doctors found the bullet wound in the President's back 6" below the shoulder line (T3) but, not knowing about the throat wound (they hadn't spoken to anyone at Parklands), which was obliterated by the tracheotomy, they claimed the bullet was still in the body. When the bullet was found on the stretcher they claimed that it had fallen out of JFK during the heart massage. This is the information conveyed to LBJ by Hoover that I posted earlier. Later when it was found that there were more wounds than could be accounted for by three shots, the story changed to the bullet falling out of Connolly's thigh. But after it's dubious discovery there were some problems with the chain of custody. The SS agents and FBI agents had to log a time and place for when the bullet came into their possession, and scratch their initials on the surface. Later it was discovered that the men on the list claimed to have not seen the bullet and there are initials missing on CE 399. This was the magic bullet that allegedly accounted for seven wounds and reduced the need to only three shots.

Coming back to your question, here is my opinion based on the medical and eye witness accounts. The throat wound was from the front. The first shot from the rear missed and hit the kerb, and fragments of bullet and/or concrete hit James Tague. There was a shot that put a skid mark on a manhole cover and lodged in the grass. This bullet was removed by a blond agent who never handed it in. There are a series of photos that show him examining the skid mark, picking up the bullet and putting it in his pocket. The skid mark's direction indicated it came from the Records Building and years later when the roof was repaired a cartridge case was found lodged in a crack. The next shot from the rear hit JFK in the back and he slumped over to the left onto Jackie. The next shot from the rear hit Connolly. The fatal shot came from the front left, through JFK's temple and blew out the right occipital. There were eighteen doctors and nurses who described these wounds (before the chain of custody was broken when the body left Parklands) and eighty eight witnesses (some of whom were only feet from JFK when the fatal shot hit) said there were shots from the grassy knoll. If you watch the video of the president's press secretary near the time of JFK's death indicating where the fatal shot came from, he points to his right temple. There is now a suggestion using the expertly synchronised ZP/Audio file that there may have been another shot from the rear 0.7 seconds after the fatal shot.

You might expect a rebuttal from those who weren't even born at the time along the lines of "no, no, no,...the doctors, nurses and eye witnesses were all lying or mistaken, I know the truth and can prove it, 100%...... there were these curtain rods, you see.."

Sorry to be long winded, but I hope I addressed your question.

Cheers, George

I will rebut these points in longer post which I’m preparing but it will take a while to put together. And please can you just explain why you keep making the point about those that ‘weren’t even born at the time’ which is clearly aimed at me? On that basis I assume that you dismiss the opinions of Rumbelow, Evans and Begg on the Ripper murders?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Well, aren't you the clever little secretary. More insults. Weren't you the one blubbering about someone using the word Schizophrenic?

Certainly not a master of wit and repartee, a master of denigration and repetition perhaps.

Kindly do not anticipate that I will be responding to any more of your noxious posts.

You haven’t responded to any yet so why would you start now. You’re a hypocrite George. I’m perfectly willing to stick to the facts of the case but it’s difficult when the other side throw a hissy fit every time somethings posted that they don’t like and who bombard me with questions demanding answers whils refusing to answer my posts. The purpose of a forum is that it’s not all one way.

[Herlock Sholmes]

1. Charles Brehm Lied ?

2. Charles Brehm Never Existed ?

3. Charles Brehm was an Idiot and a Moron .?



''Lone Assassin'' Apoligist answer.... ''Yes'' [ Spell Check please George ]

Like a good conspiracy theorist you left out the reasonable alternative.

So…

4. He was mistaken.

[GBinOz]

I will take exception with you on your statement that there was an "entry wound" in Kennedy's throat - I think that it would be more accurate to say that the first doctor deemed it to be an "entry wound". He admitted that he didn't turn Kennedy's body over to look for an exit wound. It could have been an entry or exit wound. Yes, at Bethesda, they saw the wound in Kennedy's back a little below the neck and couldn't find what they deemed to be an exit wound. This was, they decided after talking to the hospital doctors, concealed by the tracheotomy. So we have one set of doctors believing that the throat was the entry wound, and one set believing that it was an exit wound.

Other witnesses suggested that anyone with a rifle on the grassy knoll must have been visible to many people. Someone suggested there was a puff of smoke on the knoll, and someone else said it was just someone smoking a cigarette.
Other witnesses suggested that anyone with a rifle on the grassy knoll must have been visible to many people.

The wrist is a somewhat open joint, and a bullet could pass through hitting very little solid matter. He therefore deemed the single bullet theory absolutely possible, and
although most times the bullet would be significantly distorted, it was quite possible that it would be only nominally marked.

Hi Doc,

Thanks for the comments, and I will make the following replies.

I did in fact say that the first doctor (Perry) deemed it to be an entry wound, and then qualified the comment after that as my opinion (only). What I would ask you to consider is the trajectory of a projectile, which ever way it was headed, that could leave a wound in the throat nicking the necktie knot and a wound in the back 6" below the shoulder line (T3).

It would have to have been a very large cigarette. (see below). There were very few people in that area, and they don't appear to be smoking. Their object that day was to see the President so I have difficulty in believing that they would have been looking at the grassy knoll with their backs to JFK.

In the tests commissioned by LBJ as part of the WC enquiry, 100 bullets were fired and the ones fired into the wrist of the cadaver were all severely crushed at the front.

Thanks for the productive debate. I too was a teen ager in 1963 and was more grieved by the assassination than interested in how it was achieved. I had conflicting views from my father and my grandmother and it wasn't long, as the anomalies mounted, that I became more and more interested. I now have no doubt that it was a professional hit commissioned by.....well, that's a whole other story.

Cheers, George

[Aethelwulf]

'Puffs of smoke' which could be just about anything.

Ridiculous

[FISHY1118]

Like a good conspiracy theorist you left out the reasonable alternative.

So…

4. He was mistaken.

Like a good Apoligist Theorist you added the extremley unlikely alternative that ''Everyone'' that ever Contradicted or ever showed Factual Evidence to the contrary of the Warren Commission Novel must have been .... 4. Mistaken

[GBinOz]

The House Select Committee on Assassinations......more conspiracy theorists.

[Aethelwulf]

The House Select Committee on Assassinations......more conspiracy theorists.

Well that's total genius!

It was a conspiracy, but we can't identify any other gunman or the extent of any conspiracy.

Taxi for the select committee.

[rjpalmer]

Hi Roger,

That was titled "Mortal Error" by Bonar Menninger, and was the book I discovered in the $2 sale bin. I admit that I only skimmed through it but it didn't impress me.

Cheers, George

Thanks, George. Yes--that's the guy. Menninger.

Cheers.

[jason_c]

The House Select Committee on Assassinations......more conspiracy theorists.

It's a select committee filled with politicians. Politicians can be wrong, in fact they are invariably wrong about most things.

[rjpalmer]

Politicians can be wrong, in fact they are invariably wrong about most things.

But this doesn't apply to the Warren Commission?

[Abby Normal]

Hi Doc,

Thanks for the comments, and I will make the following replies.

I did in fact say that the first doctor (Perry) deemed it to be an entry wound, and then qualified the comment after that as my opinion (only). What I would ask you to consider is the trajectory of a projectile, which ever way it was headed, that could leave a wound in the throat nicking the necktie knot and a wound in the back 6" below the shoulder line (T3).

It would have to have been a very large cigarette. (see below). There were very few people in that area, and they don't appear to be smoking. Their object that day was to see the President so I have difficulty in believing that they would have been looking at the grassy knoll with their backs to JFK.

In the tests commissioned by LBJ as part of the WC enquiry, 100 bullets were fired and the ones fired into the wrist of the cadaver were all severely crushed at the front.

Thanks for the productive debate. I too was a teen ager in 1963 and was more grieved by the assassination than interested in how it was achieved. I had conflicting views from my father and my grandmother and it wasn't long, as the anomalies mounted, that I became more and more interested. I now have no doubt that it was a professional hit commissioned by.....well, that's a whole other story.

Cheers, George

hi george
thanks for posting this pic. i had remember seeing this before and always thought that it looks like a better place to have a shooter than anywhere else.. on the over pass (kind of closer to the GK as opposed to out in the middle). you would have your target coming almost directly toward you as opposed to at an angle, which causes the harder to hit side to side movement than the GN and book depository(which would also have your target moving away from you). it also looks like the exact angle of the fatal head shot, as kennedys head jerks back and to the left.

that puff of smoke, if thats what it is, looks like it could be coming from the overpass I think? also werent there confirmed reports of men on the overpass.. described as "hobos" I beleive?? it also kind of looks like you can see figures on the overpass. especially just left of the puff of smoke. thoughts?