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  • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post

    ill ask you again , maybe ill get a straight answer this time . i have to repeat myself because you just repeat the same thing over and over with out proof .

    Show me again where you can proove or where the ''warren commission tied the Rifle to the Paper bag as proof Oswald carried the gun into the TSBD'' ? . Without your usual hearsay, he said, or she said nonsense.
    You’re using the usual conspiracy theorist tricks and dodges Fishy.

    Three expert examiners proved that Oswald’s prints were on the packaging found on the 6th floor. Packaging that wasn’t used by the TSBD. How much more evidence do you need? Film footage of Oswald carrying the parcel onto the 6th floor perhaps? CT’s use vague, insignificant points to hint at conspiracy but when it comes to things that point to Oswald’s guilt you demand a ludicrously high standard of proof.

    So we have 3 experts matching Oswald’s fingerprints and 2 people with absolutely no reason to lie who saw him with the bulky passage that he put on the back seat of the car. One of those witnesses also said that he told the obviously fabricated story about curtain rods. How many people are involved in this ridiculous plot Fishy?
    Regards

    Sir Herlock Sholmes.

    “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

    Comment


    • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post
      Moving right along to next lot of contradictions of the Warren Commission report


      1. Nurse Audrey Bell destroys the Pristine Bullet Theory .

      2 . FBI Agent James Cadigan destroys the Rifle in the Paperbag Theory .

      3 . Next ?​​


      And there are many .
      “Moving right along to the next….”

      What you really mean Fishy is……moving back to a point that I’ve already addressed in previous posts.

      A nurse gives her unqualified opinion and an FBI mentions something that he thought might have occurred. And you say that ‘destroys.’ A child could see that complete lack of value in those points. Why do you make a big deal of these points whilst completely ignoring the testimony of a Doctor that actually performed the autopsy.

      I think we all know why.
      Regards

      Sir Herlock Sholmes.

      “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post
        Are the partial prints Oswald's? Fingerprint experts Jerry Powdrill and Vincent J. Scalice examined photos of the prints in 1993 and concluded they were Oswald's. Many conspiracy theorists are skeptical of this identification and point out that the prints were studied carefully in 1963 by the FBI's Sebastian Latona, a highly skilled and experienced fingerprint expert, and found to be worthless. WC defenders reply that Latona didn't have access to the same photos of the prints that Powdrill and Scalice were able to use. However, not only was Latona able to study the original prints themselves, but he had additional pictures taken of them for examination purposes. Latona's WC testimony leads many researchers to doubt the validity of Powdrill's and Scalice's identification. Here is what Latona said about his analysis of the prints: Mr. LATONA. I could see faintly ridge formations there. However, examination disclosed to me that the formations, the ridge formations and characteristics, were insufficient for purposes of either effecting identification or a determination that the print was not identical with the prints of people. Accordingly, my opinion simply was that the latent prints which were there were of no value. Now, I did not stop there.
        Mr. EISENBERG. Before we leave those prints, Mr. Latona, had those been developed by the powder method?
        Mr. LATONA. Yes; they had.
        Mr. EISENBERG. Was that a gray powder?
        Mr. LATONA. I assumed that they used gray powder in order to give them what little contrast could be seen. And it took some highlighting and sidelighting with the use of a spotlight to actually make those things discernible at all. Representative FORD. As far as you are concerned.
        Mr. LATONA. That's right.
        Mr. DULLES. Is it likely or possible that those fingerprints could have been damaged or eroded in the passage from Texas to your hands?
        Mr. LATONA. No, sir; I don't think so. In fact, I think we got the prints just like they were. There had, in addition to this rifle and that paper bag, which I received on the 23d--there had also been submitted to me some photographs which had been taken by the Dallas Police Department, at least alleged to have been taken by them, of these prints on this trigger guard which they developed. I examined the photographs very closely and I still could not determine any latent value in the photograph.
        So then I took the rifle personally over to our photo laboratory. In the meantime, I had made arrangements to bring a photographer in especially for the purpose of photographing these latent prints for me, an experienced photographer--I called him in. I received this material in the Justice Building office of operations is in the Identification Division Building, which is at 2d and D Streets SW. So I made arrangements to immediately have a photographer come in and see if he could improve on the photographs that were taken by the Dallas Police Department.
        Well, we spent, between the two of us, setting up the camera, looking at prints, highlighting, sidelighting, every type of lighting that we could conceivably think of, checking back and forth in the darkroom--we could not improve the condition of these latent prints. So, accordingly, the final conclusion was simply that the latent print on this gun was of no value, the fragments that were there.
        After that had been determined, I then proceeded to completely process the entire rifle, to see if there were any other prints of any significance or value any prints of value--I would not know what the significance would be, but to see if there were any other prints. (4 H 21)
        Lone-gunman theorists assert that the Dallas police found Oswald's palm print on the barrel of the alleged murder weapon. However, the palm print had no chain of evidence, and the Dallas police did not tell the FBI about the print until AFTER Oswald was dead (he was shot by Jack Ruby on November 24). Until late in the evening of the 24th, journalists assigned to the Dallas police station were reporting that, according to their police sources, Oswald's prints had NOT been found on the rifle (Lifton 356 n).
        Dallas police officials said the same thing during public interviews, i.e., that Oswald's prints had NOT been found on the weapon. When the FBI's Latona examined the Carcano on November 23, he did not find Oswald's prints on the weapon. Moreover, Latona said the rifle's barrel did NOT look as though it had even been processed for prints. There is evidence that suggests the palm print was obtained from Oswald's dead body at the morgue, or later at the funeral home (Lifton 354-356


        More conflicting and contradictory evidence of the Warren Commission report ​ ''Lone Gunman Theory answers below ''
        ,
        1. Sabastian Latona was a lair , = yes

        2 Sabastian Latona did not exist =yes

        3 Sabastian Latona was a utter moron like Audrey Bell yes


        Next please .
        More tricks but that’s to be expected. You are claiming that Latona found prints to be worthless but this isn’t the case. There were some prints which weren’t of a standard to get an ID from but you are just lumping good and bad prints all together.

        Latona positively identified the two prints from the bag as being Oswald’s. (WC vol.4 - 8,19) Wittmus of the FBI and Mandalla of the police later confirmed this conclusion.

        Wesley Leibeler of the Commission wanted a further check and so got Latona to look again in September of 1964. Latino looked even more closely this time and found within the prints rust spots and marks that corresponds exactly with the rifle.

        So what does Scalice say in 1993?

        In 1963 the latent prints on the trigger guard were considered useless for identification as they were less defined than the palm print was was conclusively proven to have belonged to Oswald. He re-examined the photos of the prints for the HSCA in 1978 and came to the same conclusion - they were too unclear to be of use.

        But….in 1963 a guy who worked in the Dallas Crime Lab called Rusty Livingstone had taken a second set of photographs which he’d kept. Scalice examined these and found 3 positive points and 3 possibles which wasn’t enough for an ID.

        However, using a newly available technique he re-examined the 4 photos and by putting them together found that there were some points which one photo picked up but another didn’t. So using all of the photographs for contrast he found 18 points of identity. Further work increased these points of identity to 24. Usually 10 points are required for a positive identity so this was easily enough. He said:


        “I feel that this is a major breakthrough in this investigation because we’re able, for the first time, to actually say that these are definitely the fingerprints of Lee Harvey Oswald and that they are on the rifle. There is no doubt about it.”




        Your deliberately falling into the usual trap Fishy. You are only reading conspiracy theorists.
        Regards

        Sir Herlock Sholmes.

        “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

        Comment


        • I tell you what certainly is noticeable here (and anyone can see it)

          I respond in great detail to every single point raised by Fishy and George (without fail)….but do my questions get answered? No they don’t. Do the points that I raise against conspiracy ever get acknowledge or responded to? Not once. Ever.

          So this is how it goes is it? Silly conspiracist nonsense points which I have to waste time swatting away whilst my questions/points are met with a wall of silence and the changing of the subject.

          And don’t like repeating this but it’s an issue of fairness and of an open minded approach. I’ve read over 40 conspiracy based books at one point or other but I’m currently looking at only my 3rd non-conspiracy book. How many non-conspiracy books have George and Fishy read…..a big fat zero.

          What do we expect opinions to be when only one side of the debate is looked into.
          Regards

          Sir Herlock Sholmes.

          “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

          Comment


          • Innocent Oswald? Incapable of assassination?

            This is the note that he left for Marina on the evening of the day of the assassination attempt on General Walker. It was written in Russian and was proven to have been in Oswald’s handwriting.

            1. This is the key to the mailbox which is located in the main post office in the city on Ervay Street. This is the same street where the drugstore, in which you always waited is located. You will find the mailbox in the post office which is located 4 blocks from the drugstore on that street. I paid for the box so don’t worry about it…

            2. Send the information as to what has happened to me to the Embassy and include newspaper clippings (should there be anything about me in the newspapers). I believe that the Embassy will come quickly to your assistance on learning everything.

            3. I paid the house rent on the 2nd. So don’t worry about it.

            4. Recently I also paid for water and gas.

            5. The money from work will possibly be coming. The money will be sent to our post office box. Go to the bank and cash the check.

            6. You can either throw out or give my clothing, etc., away. Do not keep these. However, I prefer that you hold on to my personal papers (military, civil, etc.).

            7. Certain of my documents are in the small blue valise.

            8. The address book can be found on my table in the study should need same.

            9. We have friends here. The Red Cross also will help you.

            10. I left you as much money as I could, 60 dollars on the second of the month. You and the baby (apparently) can live for another 2 months using 10 dollars per week.

            11. If I am alive and taken prisoner, the city jail is located at the end of the bridge through which we always passed on going to the city (right in the beginning of the city after crossing the bridge).

            And this is what our ‘innocent’ man said to his wife when Nixon was in town (a direct quote from Marina)

            “I saw that he took a pistol. I asked him where he was going, and why he was getting dressed. He answered ‘Nixon is coming. I want to go and have a look’. I said, ‘I know how you look’.”

            She even tried to lock him in the bathroom to prevent him going until he finally relented.

            ​​​​​​……

            Marina knew that he was guilty when she saw him in jail. The Russian emigré community thought that he was unbalanced as did his brother Robert, who said this about the allegedly normal Oswald:

            “ I think I’ve come to an understanding of Lee that I have now that I didn’t, of course … I mean, I watched the deterioration of a human being. You look at that last year — his work, and his family, trying to go to Cuba, trying to go back to Russia. … Everything is deteriorating. It was a terrible thing to look at.”

            Oswald innocent? No chance.
            Regards

            Sir Herlock Sholmes.

            “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

            Comment


            • This is one conspiracy theory I just can't get behind. I suspect the intelligence agencies did a lot of covering-up after the assassination but this was to hide their own embarrassment. Whilst I believe there is a small chance of a conspiracy to kill the President I am almost certain any conspiracy wasn't as wide spread and convoluted as the conspiracy theorists would have us believe.

              Comment


              • I actually posted this around an hour ago on the wrong thread….



                And hopefully my final post tonight in the battle against madness. The Neely Street photograph showing Oswald holding the rifle and carrying a revolver. Yes, Neely Street, the only address that Oswald omitted when asked about the places he’d lived. When he actually falsely extended by 3 months his occupation at his address before Neely Street so that it could be expunged from the records.

                Conspiracy theorists led by people like Groden try and claim ‘fake.’ It’s worth noting that Robert Blakey, a top Notre Dame law professor and Chief Counsel and Director of the HSCA, said in the National Enquirer that Groden had lied about his credentials and that “Groden’s ability to interpret photographs is nil.” The same Groden who was utterly discredited at the OJ Simpson trial. The same Groden who Fishy quoted heavily.

                The photographs were sent to top labs at Stanford University, the University of Southern California and the Rochester Institute of Technology. All of whom verified them as genuine. The conspiracists still yell ‘fake.’ Oswald’s friend Michael Paine said that he’d seen one of the photos as early as April 1963 (some pre-planning there for the conspiracists) Marina Oswald said that she remembered taking the photos but she couldn’t recall how many she’d taken though.

                In 1967 as part of the CBS TV special (the one where the riflemen recreated an beat Oswald’s performance with the rifle) went to the backyard of 214 Neely Street to see if a replica of the photos could be achieved. In the photo that they took the shadows fell in exactly the same way as in the Oswald photo. (They still yell fake!)

                Then, to cap it off, in 1977 a copy of one the the photos was found in the possessions of Oswald’s friend and mentor George DeMohrenschildt. On the back we’re the words “To my friend George from Lee Oswald.” The handwriting was checked by a HSCA expert who pronounced it genuine.

                You would think that there would come a time when these increasingly hollow and desperate cries of “fake” would stop, but on they go.

                …….

                A) I mean, ask yourself honestly, what would plotters do if they wanted to kill the President and had all of those resources to hand? Would they do something along the lines of…Find one of the thousand of upper floor rooms in any town on any one of Kennedy’s trips. Find a top quality assassin. Equip him with the best gun that money can by. One or 2 shots and it’s done. Have a car waiting out the back to get him away from the scene then either get him out of the country with a name change or kill him. No paper trail. No witnesses. No disputed medical evidence. No disputed ballistics evidence. No questions about the assassin and his past.Very few in the know reducing the risk of someone blabbing.Or

                B) You find an allegedly not very good shot and equip him with an allegedly not very good rifle. To do this you go to the trouble of laying a trail of purchase to a store in Chicago to a name which is on several cards in the possession of the man that you yourself selected. Then you leave yourself the problem of explaining away his strange behaviour and lies before the assassination and you let him wonder around the streets to get arrested before getting himself blamed for the murder of a police officer. Then you parade what is allegedly the wrong type of rifle on national TV. You put a gunman on the Knoll in front of a large car park and with the public standing feet away in front and all around the Plaza you have people with still and movie cameras. Not only do you not mind the risk of your man being seen or photographed but you introduce the need to cover up the medical and ballistics findings which means having control over dozens if not hundreds of people. Then you gather together some of the most respected men in the country and get them to take part in a fraudulent and treasonable investigation confident that none of them will break ranks and that none of the investigators might let something slip.



                How the hell can anyone even begin to believe this? 60 years of utter fantasy. Embarrassing nonsense
                Regards

                Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jason_c View Post
                  This is one conspiracy theory I just can't get behind. I suspect the intelligence agencies did a lot of covering-up after the assassination but this was to hide their own embarrassment. Whilst I believe there is a small chance of a conspiracy to kill the President I am almost certain any conspiracy wasn't as wide spread and convoluted as the conspiracy theorists would have us believe.
                  I totally agree Jason. It’s certainly possible that, if Oswald was in some way connected to the intelligence agencies (in some minor way) or, as has been suggested, a warning about Oswald possibly being a danger was ignored or missed in error, then yes they might certainly have tried to cover their own arses. I’d say that would be plausible. And people seeing any hint of reluctance to cooperate or what looked like an attempt to obfuscate and bingo….. we have a conspiracy. Which is a conspiracy of course but not the massive, wide-ranging, complex, completely incompetent and totally unbelievable one to kill Kennedy that’s usually suggested. I can’t believe that one for a second and the evidence against it is like Mount Everest.

                  Regards

                  Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                  “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                    I respond in great detail to every single point raised by Fishy and George (without fail)….but do my questions get answered? No they don’t. Do the points that I raise against conspiracy ever get acknowledge or responded to? Not once. Ever.

                    So this is how it goes is it? Silly conspiracist nonsense points which I have to waste time swatting away whilst my questions/points are met with a wall of silence and the changing of the subject.
                    Problem is Herlock, you ignore responses and just keep re-presenting the same debunked arguments along with unsubstantiated claims. You harp on two witnesses seeing a bulky package. I present a reference to actual witness testimony where they are describing both how Oswald carried the package and both estimating the size to about two feet, and both saying that the bag was too small to have contained an unassembled rifle (35"). But you just ignore this evidence as though you didn't read it, which may be the case.

                    You have made a concerted effort to ridicule the eyewitness testimony of Audrey Bell. Can you enlighten us all to some answers about the magic bullet:
                    1. How much did it weigh in grains?
                    2. Do you know what a grain is?
                    3. How much does an unfired 6.5 Carcano bullet weigh?
                    4. Are you aware that Connolly's doctors said that Connolly took more fragments in his wrist to the grave than were missing from the magic bullet? They wanted to extract them but Connolly's wife refused permission.
                    5. Did you miss, or ignore, that Hoover said in his phone conversation with LBJ that the bullet was found in Kennedy's stretcher, and the doctor's believed it had been dislodged during the heart massage? Did the bullet do a U-turn after it hit Connolly in the leg and end up back in Kennedy's body? This was long before Spectre came up with his concocted theory to explain how there couldn't have been more than three shots. Or is this to be added to your list of little mistakes?

                    You keep advocating that I should be reading apologist books. Unlike yourself, I lived through these times. The against the odds win by a young catholic President, the Cuban Missile crisis, where even in Australia there was fear that it would escalate into a nuclear holocaust, and the devastating news of the assassinations of of JFK,MLK and RFK. My father vehemently supported the WC, my Grandmother was profoundly unconvinced. I have followed this case live, and the developments as they happened, and don't feel the need to read the distorted ramblings of the likes of Posner.

                    There are only so many times that one can present factual evidence to a person who deals only in speculation, unsubstantiated claims, likelihoods, distortion of evidence and character assassination. Be assured that the silence and moving on to other topics is not because valid have been presented. Quite the opposite.
                    It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. It shall be life. - Ten Bears

                    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. - Bladerunner

                    ​Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                      Innocent Oswald? Incapable of assassination?

                      This is the note that he left for Marina on the evening of the day of the assassination attempt on General Walker. It was written in Russian and was proven to have been in Oswald’s handwriting.
                      Marina Oswald’s Credibility

                      The
                      Warren Commission was aware that many of Marina Oswald’s statements were contradictory and unreliable (see, for example, her evidence about Oswald cleaning and practising with his rifle). One of the Commission’s attorneys, Norman Redlich, wrote in a memo to J. Lee Rankin that “neither you nor I have any desire to smear the reputation of any individual. We cannot ignore, however, that Marina Oswald has repeatedly lied to the [Secret] Service, the FBI, and this Commission on matters which are of vital concern to the people of this country and the world” (HSCA Report, appendix vol.11, p.126).

                      Redlich expanded on this when testifying before the HSCA: “She may not have told the truth in connection with the attempted killing of General Walker. … I gave to Mr Rankin a lengthy document. … I indicated the testimony that she had given, the instances where it was in conflict” (
                      ibid., p.127).

                      Was the Walker Note Authentic?
                      The note was undated, and did not mention General Walker or any reason why Oswald might find himself under arrest. There are several reasons to doubt the authenticity of the handwritten note:
                      • Ruth Paine’s home had been searched thoroughly on the afternoon of the assassination, and again the following day, when Paine claimed to have seen officers specifically looking for loose papers within books (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.3, p.87). The inventory of items discovered is 49 pages long, but does not mention the note (FBI HQ Oswald File, 105–82555–24).
                      • Although the FBI’s handwriting expert considered that the note was in Oswald’s handwriting (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.7, p.437), only one of the three experts who were consulted by the House Select Committee on Assassinations considered the note to be authentic (HSCA Report, appendix vol.8, pp.232–246).
                      • The Bureau’s fingerprint expert found seven sets of fingerprints on the note. None of them belonged to either Lee or Marina Oswald (FBI HQ JFK Assassination File, 62–109060–36).
                      Two Men Outside Walker’s House
                      There were no witnesses to the shooting itself, but one of Walker’s neighbours was alerted by the gunshot and saw two men leaving the scene. Each man got into a car and drove away. The witness, Walter Kirk Coleman, was able to give detailed descriptions of the men and their cars (
                      Warren Commission Hearings, vol.26, pp.437–441 [Commission Exhibit 2958]). After the JFK assassination, Coleman was shown photographs of Oswald. He denied that Oswald resembled either of the men he had seen. In any case, Oswald could not drive.

                      Robert Surrey, an associate of General Walker, reported that he had seen two men acting suspiciously outside Walker’s house two days before the shooting. Neither man resembled Oswald (
                      Warren Commission Hearings, vol.5, pp.446–9).

                      The Bullet and the Rifle

                      The bullet used in the attempted shooting of Walker was probably not the same type as those used in the
                      JFK assassination. According to various newspaper accounts (e.g. ‘Walker Escapes Assassin’s Bullet’, New York Times, 12 April 1963, p.12), the Dallas police claimed that the bullet was a 30.06 calibre; the bullet shells from the Texas School Book Depository were 6.5mm. The Walker bullet was too severely deformed to allow a conclusive analysis of its pattern of grooves. A spectrographic examination by Henry Heilberger of the FBI laboratory found that the lead alloy in the bullet was different from that of bullet fragments found in President Kennedy’s car (FBI HQ JFK Assassination File, 62–109060–22).

                      Dr Vincent Guinn performed neutron activation analysis on the bullet fired at General Walker, as well as several bullet fragments associated with the JFK assassination. He claimed that the Walker bullet was “extremely likely” to be a fragment from the same type of bullet as those fired at President Kennedy (
                      HSCA Report, appendix vol.1, p.502), but his methodology and results have since been refuted (see How Reliable is the Neutron Activation Analysis Evidence in the JFK Assassination?).

                      The Walker bullet had been fired from a rifle powerful enough to send it through brickwork, which the Mannlicher–Carcano rifle was not. There is no evidence that Oswald ever had access to such a rifle.

                      Not only did the bullet and rifle have no association with Lee Harvey Oswald, but Edwin Walker was adamant that
                      Commission Exhibit 573, the bullet offered in evidence, was not the one he had examined at the time of the shooting; see Justice Department Criminal Division File 62–117290–1473 for Walker’s correspondence with the Justice Department on this matter.

                      Here we have an example of the distortions resorted to by apologists. "It was written in Russian and was proven to have been in Oswald’s handwriting.​" only one of the three experts who were consulted by the House Select Committee on Assassinations considered the note to be authentic

                      Curious how a note allegedwritten by Oswald to Marina had neither of their finger prints on it. Ahh, nitpicking I hear you say. Don't muddy the water with evidence I hear you say.

                      This accusation was made after Oswald's death without any supporting evidence. The two witnesses to the shootings were shown pictures of Oswald and both witnesses said that neither of the men seen leaving the scene resembled Oswald.

                      Over to you counsellor. Any more fabricated evidence you would like to present.​
                      It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. It shall be life. - Ten Bears

                      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. - Bladerunner

                      ​Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

                      Comment


                      • Click image for larger version

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ID:	804319 This series shows the nonsense of the Magic Bullet Theory and the Single Shooter in the TSBD theory. The autopsy showing the placement of the bullet wound in the back has to be altered to be in the back of the neck. Another tiny mistake? No sinister or fraudulent activity? The apologists will have imaginative explanations and denials, I dare say.
                        It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. It shall be life. - Ten Bears

                        All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. - Bladerunner

                        ​Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                          Which is a conspiracy of course but not the massive, wide-ranging, complex, completely incompetent and totally unbelievable one to kill Kennedy that’s usually suggested. I can’t believe that one for a second and the evidence against it is like Mount Everest.
                          Does a day pass without one of Herlock's treasured superlatives? It seems that "overwhelming" has been superseded by "like Mount Everest". How marvellous it must be to live without uncertainty just by discarding that pesky eye witness testimony and ignoring that irritating medical evidence.
                          It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. It shall be life. - Ten Bears

                          All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. - Bladerunner

                          ​Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

                          Comment


                          • Great posts George 489 through to 492 i couldnt have put it better myself , well done !! Audrey Bell completly and utterly destroys the magic bullet theory ,on top of everything else we now know thanks to your reseach on the subject . Its a no brainer [pardon the pun ]


                            Lets see who tonights mystery witness will be that completley contradicts the Warren Commission Report that apoligist will know doubt say [ lets call it the Audrey Bell Test ]

                            1 They Lied

                            2 They were Mistaken

                            3 They didnt exist

                            4 They are stark raving mad and complete idiots
                            Last edited by FISHY1118; 02-20-2023, 05:26 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                              You’re using the usual conspiracy theorist tricks and dodges Fishy.

                              Three expert examiners proved that Oswald’s prints were on the packaging found on the 6th floor. Packaging that wasn’t used by the TSBD. How much more evidence do you need? Film footage of Oswald carrying the parcel onto the 6th floor perhaps? CT’s use vague, insignificant points to hint at conspiracy but when it comes to things that point to Oswald’s guilt you demand a ludicrously high standard of proof.

                              So we have 3 experts matching Oswald’s fingerprints and 2 people with absolutely no reason to lie who saw him with the bulky passage that he put on the back seat of the car. One of those witnesses also said that he told the obviously fabricated story about curtain rods. How many people are involved in this ridiculous plot Fishy?
                              Show me where these experts gave that evidence to the Warren Commission and what page is it on in their report ?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                                I actually posted this around an hour ago on the wrong thread….



                                And hopefully my final post tonight in the battle against madness. The Neely Street photograph showing Oswald holding the rifle and carrying a revolver. Yes, Neely Street, the only address that Oswald omitted when asked about the places he’d lived. When he actually falsely extended by 3 months his occupation at his address before Neely Street so that it could be expunged from the records.

                                Conspiracy theorists led by people like Groden try and claim ‘fake.’ It’s worth noting that Robert Blakey, a top Notre Dame law professor and Chief Counsel and Director of the HSCA, said in the National Enquirer that Groden had lied about his credentials and that “Groden’s ability to interpret photographs is nil.” The same Groden who was utterly discredited at the OJ Simpson trial. The same Groden who Fishy quoted heavily.

                                The photographs were sent to top labs at Stanford University, the University of Southern California and the Rochester Institute of Technology. All of whom verified them as genuine. The conspiracists still yell ‘fake.’ Oswald’s friend Michael Paine said that he’d seen one of the photos as early as April 1963 (some pre-planning there for the conspiracists) Marina Oswald said that she remembered taking the photos but she couldn’t recall how many she’d taken though.

                                In 1967 as part of the CBS TV special (the one where the riflemen recreated an beat Oswald’s performance with the rifle) went to the backyard of 214 Neely Street to see if a replica of the photos could be achieved. In the photo that they took the shadows fell in exactly the same way as in the Oswald photo. (They still yell fake!)

                                Then, to cap it off, in 1977 a copy of one the the photos was found in the possessions of Oswald’s friend and mentor George DeMohrenschildt. On the back we’re the words “To my friend George from Lee Oswald.” The handwriting was checked by a HSCA expert who pronounced it genuine.

                                You would think that there would come a time when these increasingly hollow and desperate cries of “fake” would stop, but on they go.

                                …….

                                A) I mean, ask yourself honestly, what would plotters do if they wanted to kill the President and had all of those resources to hand? Would they do something along the lines of…Find one of the thousand of upper floor rooms in any town on any one of Kennedy’s trips. Find a top quality assassin. Equip him with the best gun that money can by. One or 2 shots and it’s done. Have a car waiting out the back to get him away from the scene then either get him out of the country with a name change or kill him. No paper trail. No witnesses. No disputed medical evidence. No disputed ballistics evidence. No questions about the assassin and his past.Very few in the know reducing the risk of someone blabbing.Or

                                B) You find an allegedly not very good shot and equip him with an allegedly not very good rifle. To do this you go to the trouble of laying a trail of purchase to a store in Chicago to a name which is on several cards in the possession of the man that you yourself selected. Then you leave yourself the problem of explaining away his strange behaviour and lies before the assassination and you let him wonder around the streets to get arrested before getting himself blamed for the murder of a police officer. Then you parade what is allegedly the wrong type of rifle on national TV. You put a gunman on the Knoll in front of a large car park and with the public standing feet away in front and all around the Plaza you have people with still and movie cameras. Not only do you not mind the risk of your man being seen or photographed but you introduce the need to cover up the medical and ballistics findings which means having control over dozens if not hundreds of people. Then you gather together some of the most respected men in the country and get them to take part in a fraudulent and treasonable investigation confident that none of them will break ranks and that none of the investigators might let something slip.



                                How the hell can anyone even begin to believe this? 60 years of utter fantasy. Embarrassing nonsense
                                Wheres the picture of the flattened bullet on one side . ?

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