JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

It is well-known that there was plenty of scandal surrounding both LBJ and Hoover.

Please don't suggest that a man in JFK's position was successfully kept in the dark about all of it.

Bringing JFK down by means of a scandal would have left him free to expose somehow whatever he knew.

That could have brought down both LBJ and Hoover.

If JFK was brought down due to scandal, then he probably could have brought down LBJ or Hoover if they had been the leaks. But assassinating JFK doesn't risk scandal and possible end of career, it risks being executed for murder and treason..

Even JFK had compromising information on Hoover or LBJ, publicizing JFK's behavior would have been a cheaper, easier, and safer method of destroying JFK. It would also have zero risk of being executed for murder and treason.

This was true for J Edgar Hoover and LBJ and even more true for the billions of people who weren't J Edgar Hoover.or LBJ.

[Fiver]

Oswald was being asked something obviously, perhaps to account for his movements, but had no reason to panic.

If Oswald was innocent, he had no reason to panic.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Please see my replies below.

If JFK was brought down due to scandal, then he probably could have brought down LBJ or Hoover if they had been the leaks.


They were aware of that danger, which is why they did not bring him down that way.



But assassinating JFK doesn't risk scandal and possible end of career, it risks being executed for murder and treason..


No more than in any other coup d'état.

There have been plenty of such coups and in the great majority of cases, they succeeded and none of the plotters was ever brought to justice.

In a case such as this, in which the heir apparent, so-to-speak, the country's top law enforcement officer, the intelligence agencies, the military, and the Secret Service were implicated, WHO could have brought the conspirators to justice?

Even the Dallas Police, had they wanted to see justice done, could not have done so - because the Secret Service stole the President's body and the FBI overrode Dallas' lawful jurisdiction.



Even JFK had compromising information on Hoover or LBJ, publicizing JFK's behavior would have been a cheaper, easier, and safer method of destroying JFK. It would also have zero risk of being executed for murder and treason.


Wrong, for the reasons given.

There was zero risk of that happening because there was no-one outside of the conspiracy with the means to bring any of the conspirators to justice.



This was true for J Edgar Hoover and LBJ and even more true for the billions of people who weren't J Edgar Hoover.or LBJ.


WRONG.

[cobalt]

A few posts ago I put highlighted the odd fact that LHO was employed at the TSBD in October (much helped by Mrs. Paine who phoned for an interview) when business was ‘slow.’ This was called ‘bollocks’ - by Caz I think- but the ‘bollocks’ belong to Bonnie Ray Williams. Here is an excerpt from his WC testimony.

Mr. BALL. And how long did you work at that place? [The TSBD warehouse]
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, I worked there until ‘business began to get slow. I think that was-it was before November. I think it was some time during October. I am not sure.
Mr. BALL. And what did they put you to work at that time?
Mr. WILLIAMS. They called me up to help lay a floor on the fifth floor, they wanted more boards over it. As I say, business was slow, and they were trying to keep us on without laying us off at the time. So I was using the saw, helping cut wood and lay wood.
Mr. BALL. You were laying a wood floor over the old floor?
MR. WILLIAMS. Yes.

Some parts of the WC sound like a Monty Python sketch with John Cleese asking the questions.

Mr. BALL. What did you have in your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I had a chicken sandwich.
Mr. BALL. Describe the sandwich. What did it have in it besides chicken?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, it just had chicken in it. Chicken on the bone.
Mr. BALL. Chicken on the bone?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. The chicken was not boned?
Mr. WILLIAMS. It was just chicken on the bone. Just plain old chicken.
Mr. BALL. Did it have bread around it?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, it did.

Given the menacing absurdity of the exchanges maybe I should have said ‘Pinteresque.’ Here is a question, asked twice, to remind Williams of his second class status.

Representative FORD. Have you ever had any trouble with the law at all?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No Sir.
Representative FORD. No difficulty as far as the law is concerned?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I have never been inside of a courthouse before.

[Fiver]

The more slowly the vehicle was moving, the easier the target became.

That's only true if the car is moving at a steady speed. Any change to speed reduces the chance of a hit.

The approximate place where the car would be slowed down must have been decided in advance.

Approximate isn't going to cut it for time, location, or speed. An error of a few inches would miss the target.

By coincidence, around the time it slowed down, Umbrella Man raised his umbrella and Dark Complected Man raised his arm.

Anyone looking at them wasn't looking at JFK. Plus Umbrella Man came forward in 1978. This has been a non-mystery for over 40 years.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Please see my replies below.



If JFK was brought down due to scandal, then he probably could have brought down LBJ or Hoover if they had been the leaks.


They were aware of that danger, which is why they did not bring him down that way.


Evidence?


But assassinating JFK doesn't risk scandal and possible end of career, it risks being executed for murder and treason..


No more than in any other coup d'état.

This very clearly wasn’t a coup d’etat though.

There have been plenty of such coups and in the great majority of cases, they succeeded and none of the plotters was ever brought to justice.

But no assassination ever had even the tiniest fraction of the people that would have had to have been complicit in this one. That’s why it would have been physically impossible to achieve or maintain.

In a case such as this, in which the heir apparent, so-to-speak, the country's top law enforcement officer, the intelligence agencies, the military, and the Secret Service were implicated, WHO could have brought the conspirators to justice?

But they were only ‘implicated’ by deranged and dishonest conspiracy theorists. Like Mark Lane and Jim Garrison to name but 2. I’ll name a few more if you insist.

Even the Dallas Police, had they wanted to see justice done, could not have done so - because the Secret Service stole the President's body and the FBI overrode Dallas' lawful jurisdiction.

A childish explanation. The body wasn’t stolen. Exceptional circumstances required exceptional measures.

Even JFK had compromising information on Hoover or LBJ, publicizing JFK's behavior would have been a cheaper, easier, and safer method of destroying JFK. It would also have zero risk of being executed for murder and treason.


Wrong, for the reasons given.

There was zero risk of that happening because there was no-one outside of the conspiracy with the means to bring any of the conspirators to justice.

Laughable drivel…..you haven’t provided an iota of evidence that.

This was true for J Edgar Hoover and LBJ and even more true for the billions of people who weren't J Edgar Hoover.or LBJ.


WRONG.

Wrong.

Well done for keeping the waffle levels up.

Recall in the past when I complained of posters like you asking question after question but never answering any?

Well waddya know?

I asked you one simple question about why conspirators would conceivably have used an ‘impersonator’ that didn’t look remotely like the person supposedly impersonated. What was your answer? A question for me on another topic.

When it comes to content you are an empty shell who just won’t answer questions.

[Herlock Sholmes]

A few posts ago I put highlighted the odd fact that LHO was employed at the TSBD in October (much helped by Mrs. Paine who phoned for an interview) when business was ‘slow.’ This was called ‘bollocks’ - by Caz I think- but the ‘bollocks’ belong to Bonnie Ray Williams. Here is an excerpt from his WC testimony.

Mr. BALL. And how long did you work at that place? [The TSBD warehouse]
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, I worked there until ‘business began to get slow. I think that was-it was before November. I think it was some time during October. I am not sure.
Mr. BALL. And what did they put you to work at that time?
Mr. WILLIAMS. They called me up to help lay a floor on the fifth floor, they wanted more boards over it. As I say, business was slow, and they were trying to keep us on without laying us off at the time. So I was using the saw, helping cut wood and lay wood.
Mr. BALL. You were laying a wood floor over the old floor?
MR. WILLIAMS. Yes.

Some parts of the WC sound like a Monty Python sketch with John Cleese asking the questions.

Mr. BALL. What did you have in your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I had a chicken sandwich.
Mr. BALL. Describe the sandwich. What did it have in it besides chicken?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, it just had chicken in it. Chicken on the bone.
Mr. BALL. Chicken on the bone?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. The chicken was not boned?
Mr. WILLIAMS. It was just chicken on the bone. Just plain old chicken.
Mr. BALL. Did it have bread around it?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, it did.

Given the menacing absurdity of the exchanges maybe I should have said ‘Pinteresque.’ Here is a question, asked twice, to remind Williams of his second class status.

Representative FORD. Have you ever had any trouble with the law at all?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No Sir.
Representative FORD. No difficulty as far as the law is concerned?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I have never been inside of a courthouse before.

What a strange and utterly pointless post. You continue to have completely baseless digs at Ruth Paine but then again you’re a conspiracist so baseless character assassination is the norm.

Ive gone into great detail about Oswald’s employment record. Ruth Paine only helped because she happened to be at a coffee morning with Marina, Linnie Mae Randle and another woman. So was Randle ‘in on it’ too? And those other 5 potential employers who all didn’t give Oswald a job. They were all ‘in on it’ too? And I suppose that Roy Truly was also ‘in on it.’

When you look at it few people died on The Somme than there were people involved in this half-baked, amateurish (non-existent) conspiracy.

Youre another one that can’t answer questions. Ever.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Originally posted by PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1 View Post
The more slowly the vehicle was moving, the easier the target became.

Slightly remiss of our genius plotters that they employed a marksman who was so utterly useless that he couldn’t hit a man 30 yards away crawling along at 11 mph so he needed the car slowing down even more. Why didn’t they just sit the gunman on the kerb dressed as a Labrador? It would only have been a slightly less ludicrous location than behind the picket fence.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

The man who objects to character assassination of anyone involved in the conspiracy appears to be more broad-minded when it comes to dishing it out.

Mark Lane and Jim Garrison are, according to him, deranged and dishonest conspiracy theorists.

When I put forward my argument, it is dismissed as laughable drivel and childish explanation.

Shomes is obviously a principled member of the Society against Assumption, Supposition, and Conjecture.

That must be the reason for his objections as follows:

Evidence? .... you haven’t provided an iota of evidence (sic) that.

But curiously, he seems to have an exemption:

his very clearly wasn’t ... it would have been physically impossible ...

Exceptional circumstances required exceptional measures, he declares grandly.

Of course!

That is the whole key to the assassination of President Kennedy.

And the assassination required a fall-guy and someone to silence him before he could spill the beans.

To adapt a line from Oscar Wilde,

To lose a President may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose his assassin looks like carelessness.

And not only that, but after the alleged assassin conveniently died before he could stand trial, his assassin himself died before he could stand trial, and certain key witnesses - Morales, Roselli, and Giancana - died mysteriously just before they were to testify about the CIA and ... assassinations.

More amazing coincidences!

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

The Conspiracy needs to do a lot more than that. They have to plant a rifle. And spent shell casings. And arrange the sniper's nest. And plant fiber and print evidence. All without being detected entering or leaving.

The Conspiracy then has to hope that none of this is detected or destroyed before the assassination on a floor that is being re-tiled. Even if none of the evidence is accidentally discovered or destroyed, someone just closing the window will destroy the plan.

The Conspiracy also has to guess how many bullets to plant, with no idea how many shots will be fired the following day.

The Conspiracy then has to ensure that no one else is on the sixth floor when the bullets are fired, but that people will see a man resembling Oswald in the sniper's nest. They have to ensure that Oswald has no alibi for the time of the shooting without him or anyone else noticing Oswlad being spied on.

And we haven't even gotten to the Grassy Knoll nonsense.

You are assuming that the conspirators were gentlemen, playing by the rules.

Two of the three empty cartridge cases had no chain of custody from the time they were found to the time they were exhibited.

The rifle found at the top of the stairs was not a Carcano, but it became one.

The conspirators didn't play by the rules.

That's why Oswald never stood trial.

[Fiver]

No more than in any other coup d'état.

A coup d'etat?

All Cabinet members were kept on. LBJ maintained JFK's policies and pushed harder than JFK had for Civil Rights and containing Communism.

There was an assassination, but no coup d'etat.

[Fiver]

You are assuming that the conspirators were gentlemen, playing by the rules.

Of course Conspirators don't play by the rules. Nothing I have said even implies otherwise.

But real Conspirators have to conform to the laws of physics.

Real Conspirators cannot read the future.

Real Conspirators have to believe they have something to gain.

Real Conspirators have to believe those gains are worth the risks.

* The FBI did not gain anything from JFK's assassination.
* The CIA did not gain anything from JFK's assassination.
* The KGB did not gain anything from LBJ's assassination.
* The Dallas Police Department did not gain anything from JFK's assassination.
* The Mafia did not gain anything from JFK's assassination.
* Castro did not gain anything from JFK's assassination.
* Anti-Castro Cubans did not gain anything from JFK's assassination.
* The Pentagon did not gain anything from JFK's assassination.
* And the Secret Service, with a few exceptions, got to look like incompetents.

Your version of the Conspiracy needs o plant a rifle. And spent shell casings. And arrange the sniper's nest. And plant fiber and print evidence. All without being detected entering or leaving.

The Conspiracy then has to hope that none of this is detected or destroyed before the assassination on a floor that is being re-tiled. Even if none of the evidence is accidentally discovered or destroyed, someone just closing the window will destroy the plan.

The Conspiracy also has to guess how many bullets to plant, with no idea how many shots will be fired the following day.

The Conspiracy then has to ensure that no one else is on the sixth floor when the bullets are fired, but that people will see a man resembling Oswald in the sniper's nest. They have to ensure that Oswald has no alibi for the time of the shooting without him or anyone else noticing Oswald being spied on.

And we haven't even gotten to the Grassy Knoll nonsense.

Two of the three empty cartridge cases had no chain of custody from the time they were found to the time they were exhibited.

That's a myth. All of the cartridge cases had a proper chain of custody.

And your Conspirators would have no idea if they needed to plant 2 or 3 or 6 or 23 empty cartridge cases when they planted them.

The rifle found at the top of the stairs was not a Carcano, but it became one.

That's another long-disproven myth.

The conspirators didn't play by the rules.

That's why Oswald never stood trial.

Your version of the Conspirators didn't play by the rules of physics or common sense.

If Oswald knew too much, why wasn't he killed resisting arrest?

If Oswald knew too much, why was he allowed to talk to the press?

If Oswald knew too much, why was he allowed to live for over 45 hours after being arrested?

IF Oswald knew too much, how does having him killed by a member of the Conspiracy, who by definition knows too much, solve the problem?

[Fiver]

Mark Lane and Jim Garrison are, according to him, deranged and dishonest conspiracy theorists.

So you believe Garrison's claim that "It was a homosexual thrill-killing"?

You believe Garrison's claim that Bobby Kennedy was part of the cover-up?

[Fiver]

And not only that, but after the alleged assassin conveniently died before he could stand trial, his assassin himself died before he could stand trial, and certain key witnesses - Morales, Roselli, and Giancana - died mysteriously just before they were to testify about the CIA and ... assassinations.

More amazing coincidences!

On March 14, 1964, Jack Ruby was convicted of murder with malice and was sentenced to death. He died December 19, 1966, while awaiting retrial, a little over three years after he killed Oswald. During thus time, Jack Ruby was allowed to talk to his lawyers and the press.

The other men died between 12 and 15 years after JFK's murder. Only one was to be questioned about the JFK assassination and there is no indication that he had any information, let alone was a key witness.

Sam Giancana was murdered in 1975, just before he could testify about assassination plots against Castro during the Kennedy administration.

John Roselli was murdered in 1976 after he had already given testimony to the Senate about assassination plots against Castro during the Kennedy administration. He was due to be questioned about the JFK assassination, but he also skimming money from the Mob.

David Sánchez Morales died on 1978. He worked for the CIA and was probably involved in assassination plots against Castro during the Kennedy administration. He died of a heart attack and was not due to testify to anybody about anything.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

The more slowly the vehicle was moving, the easier the target became.

The approximate place where the car would be slowed down must have been decided in advance.

By coincidence, around the time it slowed down, Umbrella Man raised his umbrella and Dark Complected Man raised his arm.

Hi PI,

Umbrella Man is a character I'm aware of, having read about him some time previously. What is your opinion on him being Louie Witt, an unconnected bystander who came forward in 1978, the umbrella being a Neville Chamberlain reference familiar to Kennedy?