Casebook Examiner No. 2 (June 2010)

[lynn cates]

agremnets and otherwise

Hello Tom. I have no doubt that Liz left Michael on Tuesday. But Lane and Tanner both testified that she had left a man on Thursday. As I noted, they could be mistaken. (Sugden thinks they were.)

By lodgers, I take it you refer to the Bates interview?

I reread your other essay and you believe, like Sugden, that Liz was seen by Barnardo on Wednesday. Perhaps so. That was what Barnardo indicated.

So we agree that:

1. Liz left Michael on Tuesday

2. Liz came back to #32 to stay on Thursday.

3. that Tanner and Lane CLAIMED she had left a man on Thursday (you think they were mistaken, I am not convinced)

We likely disagree about her movements between Tuesday and Thursday.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Tom W writes:

"My cachous theory ... is not only the best solution to that particular mystery, but also the sexiest."

Ah - you did NOT notice my two dissertations. Pity, that!

I added a question to my last post that may have gone unnoticed by you, Tom. It´s about the pros and cons of chequered silk scarfs as garroting devices. I´d be pleased if you would oblige ...?

The best,
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

Yes, our posts crossed. I appreciate what you had to say. My cachous theory leaves no questions unanswered and is not only the best solution to that particular mystery, but also the sexiest.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Tom Wescott writes:

"I wrote all about how and why the cachous was in her hand in 'Berner Street Mystery Part 2', which is the third best essay ever written on the Stride murder."

So you noticed my two, then ...?

We crossed posts, obviously. Of course, Stride fainting conveniently IS a possibility, but far too convenient one in my taste. Digging through the posts, I noticed your suggestion of a robbery ruse, where the cachous stuck in Strides fingers as she went through her pockets to satisfy the Rippers demand for money. But that does not explain why she held on to them when she fainted, does it? I think the - by far - best bet is that she held on to them because she could not let them go, due to being choked and clenching her fingers.

Earlier on this thread, you stated that it would be impossible to strangle a woman garotting her with a neckerchief silk scarf like the one Stride was wearing. I would very much like you to elaborate on that!

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

I had a quick glance at the posts I was thinking about, and it seems that I misread you on the thimble/cachous thing, Tom. I am sorry for that, and hope you accept my apology if this is what you are referring to.

The best,
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Fish. I did suggest the possibility that Stride fainted, and that IS a possibility because there's no medical evidence that tells us how she was subdued. But I've NEVER suggested that the Ripper placed the cachous in Stride's hand. That's ridiculous. I wrote all about how and why the cachous was in her hand in 'Berner Street Mystery Part 2', which is the third best essay ever written on the Stride murder.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Tom Wescott writes:

"I have never even remotely suggested such an idea. I think that idea is preposterous."

Which of it, Tom - You quoted nigh on a dozen elements there. I am sorry if I offended you, but I seem to remember that I have for example seen you discuss the possibility of the Ripper putting the cachous in Strides hand (you compared it, if I am correct, to the thimble "placed" close to Eddowes´body). And I know that you have suggested that Stride did faint. You do favour a scenario with Strides head lifted by the scarf. So please correct me if I have gone wrong - I would not want to do such a thing, and apologize in advance if I have. Let´s have no bad blood between us!

The best, Tom!
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

It's not that it 'could be'. It's that it is. She left Kidney on Tuesday, so sayeth Kidney, and arrived at her lodging house later that very same day, so sayeth the lodgers. Conclusion? She left Kidney on Tuesday. She may have then stayed Wednesday night in Hanbury Street. You can read about that in my Casebook Examiner #1 essay. The issue is available for free, so I would expect anyone wishing to engage me in Stride talk to have read it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

inquest testimony

Hello Tom. That could be. Of course, the Daily Telegraph has this:

"Coroner] Who is he? - She was living with him. She left him on Thursday to come and stay at our house, so she told me."

Perhaps Tanner is confused? Or perhaps she left Kidney Tuesday and someone else on Thursday?

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

The hearsay was that Liz had words with the man with whom she was living and left on Thursday. Kidney claimed he last saw her Tuesday. He claimed also that they had not had words.

Stride left Kidney on Tuesday. One of the women at the lodging house (I believe Tanner) didn't see her until Thursday, which is where this idea comes from. However, other people at the lodging house testified they saw her on Tuesday, so there's little reason to think she was elsewhere.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

testimony

Hello Tom. I was not talking about evidence but about the inquest testimony. The hearsay was that Liz had words with the man with whom she was living and left on Thursday. Kidney claimed he last saw her Tuesday. He claimed also that they had not had words.

Of course, one, the other or both could be lying (Liz had a history of that), but what if both had told the truth?

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

And – wait! – there is more; ah, the cachous! Now, what you have suggested – and correct me if I am wrong – is that the killer takes her into the court, and she faints and falls or is lowered to the ground. And after that, the killer grabs her by the scarf and cuts her neck. He then finishes by putting a packet of cachous in her hand, shaping the hand around it, and leaves the yard.

I have never even remotely suggested such an idea. I think that idea is preposterous.

Hello Maria. You make several astute observations here. Perhaps Liz was bruised by the fellow she left on Thursday after leaving Kidney on Tuesday?

No such person is known or even suggested by the evidence to exist.

Regarding the shoulder bruising, it didn't begin to appear until after death, which is perimortem bruising. The bruising must have been inflicted shortly before, during, or shortly after death. More than likely it was caused by her killer, but we can't be sure. It's worth noting that Israel Schwartz told the Star that Stride was grabbed by her shoulders and thrown down.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

points

Hello Greg. That is interesting.

I believe she was "neck over ground" by the end of her being pulled off balance sequence. If so, the ground would catch the spray.

Does one normally go for something like cachous in preparation for sex? (Well, if boredom is anticipated, as well as a long time, perhaps a novel?)

I hope some of these points are addressed in future Casebook Examiner articles.

Cheers.
LC

[GregBaron]

Stride's demise...........

Hi All,

Interesting discussion concerning the logistics of Stride's demise. This may be daft but I thought
I'd offer some amateurish observations...........

On to our ever over discussed arterial spray....if attacked from behind and sliced on the way down I would think
the dress and perhaps stones would indicate this splatter....I don't really know the blood evidence but I seem to
recall a flow down the gutter that might support a slice while prone.......

This needn't dismiss Mr. Fisherman's assertion of the from behind attack, perhaps she was leaving dismissively or
preparing for from behind sex but here is where the chokehold or stranglehold discussed on another thread would
come in handy. If he puts her in the triangular elbow to the sternum chokehold he may have her passed out in seconds
and the mysterious fainting spell is unnecessary. This appears to be what was done with at least some of the others.
He puts her in the chokehold, lies her down, grabs her scarf to distend the throat and then slices. This chokehold,
with the pressured triangle could also possibly explain the chest brusing as the elbow could be pushing hard towards
the sternum. This would also leave little evidence about the throat but could explain the tight fisted cachous.....



Greg

[mariab]

Hi Lynn,
Sure thing. (I've ordered it from Illinois for $8 and it'll take at least a month of shipping, though!) And I hope it contains lots of transcripts of the primary sources.
Best regards,
Maria