George Cecil Ives

[Phil Carter]

Hello Phil. Thanks for that. On my end, if I can squeeze out even a snippet about Druitt or Tumblety, or maybe a conjecture about the WC murders, it will repay the effort.

I can hardly wait the 2 weeks until holiday!

The best.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Yes, I will give it a go. Have some other stuff to catch up with whilst "on tour" but I think I have a little time to indulge in a little digging here and there.
Best of luck in the library. That looks like a task and a half.
I will try and concentrate on the Ripper period volume and the "scattered dates" volume...if, and I say if, I can find them!

best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

well wishing

Hello Phil and Corey. Thanks for the well wishing. I'm gung ho.

And good luck to you too, Phil. Just imagine what a single blurb about Druitt could do, given a right date. It could pull him from the suspects list.

The best.
LC

[Mike Covell]

Hello Phil and Corey. Thanks for the well wishing. I'm gung ho.

And good luck to you too, Phil. Just imagine what a single blurb about Druitt could do, given a right date. It could pull him from the suspects list.

The best.
LC

Dear Diary, Met Druitt today, he looked down, so I gave him my favorite stones to look after, he told me he would return them later, I told him I was going fishing in the Thames, he told me he would swim out.....he never did bring my favorite stones back!

Good luck Lynn, I love the search!!

[lynn cates]

pocketing the difference

Hello Mike. Of course, that would add a new dimension to the police phrase, "Please empty your pockets."

The best.
LC

[curious]

Lynn,
You certainly have your work cut out for you.

Quoting an early post from you: While Ives amassed 45 volumes of scrapbooks, 1892-1949, they do not form part of this collection. These scrapbooks consist of clippings on topics such as murders, punishments, freaks, theories of crime and punishment, transvestism, psychology of gender, homosexuality, cricket scores, and letters he wrote to newspapers. For extracts of these scrapbooks, which were edited by Paul Sieveking and published by Jay Landesman in 1981, see Man Bites Man.

Has anyone checked out the "Man Bites Man" that includes excerpts of his scrapbooks ?

Good luck!

curious

[Mike Covell]

Paul Sieveking was one of the co-editors of Fortean Times, he still contributes. I find it strange that nothing has been mentioned on Ives in that publication. I will try and go through my past editions.

[lynn cates]

on the stacks?

Hello Mike. That is an EXCELLENT question. I must confess I haven't the foggiest notion. The thought did occur to me. I wonder if that work is in the common stacks?

Incidentally, my post is merely a reproduction of the library blurb. (Lest I should receive credit where not due.)

The best.
LC

[Mike Covell]

I'm just thinking aloud Lynn. I have lost track the amount of times that people have told me not to bother looking here, there or everywhere, because it has been done and nothing has been found. I still look, and still find things of interest, so good luck.

[lynn cates]

Rev Andy

Hello Mike. I'm with you. It is incredible to me that this chap has not been researched. I cannot help but believe that the Rev. Andy will pop round with, "Oh, yes. You've discovered Georgie, have you? Well, when I went through his papers 10 years ago, I discovered nothing of value."

Of course, this might be helpful before I spend a good portion of my holiday parked at the library.

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

day 1 at the library

Hello all. I finally got a chance to look into Ives' collected papers.

What a bizarre little twit! He is completely self absorbed and morbid at age 20, the year of the WC murders. (Actually, he turned 21 about the time of the Miller's Court business.) He goes into tirades about death and fate. He also has a most annoying habit of lapsing into a numerical code in order to communicate. Fortunately, some kind soul has translated his code. His first few forays are translated into English but, some time later, they decode into rather simple Latin. He makes more than one reference to his eventual destiny or fate. Quite the philosopher.

Now to the point. He mentions both the Chapman and Kelly killings--but particularly Chapman. He notes that she was viciously mutilated and that the police had found an inscription in chalk on a wall opposite: "5:15 more and I give myself up." I suppose he was reckoning both Smith and Tabram. But with Polly and Annie, that should be only four. Who is number 5?

Curiously, on the empty page opposite the Kelly write up, he notes that there was another killing--but the entry date is July 17, 1989. I presume he was referring to MacKenzie?

If you like coincidences, it seems the poor devil was "going up to London" just before 3 or 4 of the WC murders. Oddly, he does not mention the double event--at least it's not there in his Oct 1 entry.

I hope to go back to the library and have another go at his diaries next week before I give it up as a rum job.

LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello all. I finally got a chance to look into Ives' collected papers.



Now to the point. He mentions both the Chapman and Kelly killings--but particularly Chapman. He notes that she was viciously mutilated and that the police had found an inscription in chalk on a wall opposite: "5:15 more and I give myself up." I suppose he was reckoning both Smith and Tabram. But with Polly and Annie, that should be only four. Who is number 5?

Curiously, on the empty page opposite the Kelly write up, he notes that there was another killing--but the entry date is July 17, 1989. I presume he was referring to MacKenzie?

If you like coincidences, it seems the poor devil was "going up to London" just before 3 or 4 of the WC murders. Oddly, he does not mention the double event--at least it's not there in his Oct 1 entry.



LC

Hello LC,

Well done that man! My emphasis on your words about the double event...

If, and I say IF Ives is involved, that little snippet could be very important. Because of the question marks against Stride for one.

Don't give up yet, you never know what lies buried in a cricket score!

best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

poet

Hello Phil. Indeed. Lots of old cricket scores. He played himself and was a regular enthusiast.

Seems he also wrote poetry and kept several clippings of reviews. But they are all BAD! One memorable review of his verse ran, "this is rot, not verse." (Something tells me I'd have burned that clipping--not kept it.)

The best.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello Lyn, just as aside...did he play against a Hampton team? Let me know if you see one... I wrote a book about the 250 history of my CC (Hampton Hill CC) and this could be a great addition!..lol

best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

sports

Hello Phil. I'll keep my eyes open. Turns out he also played a good deal of lawn tennis, chess, and billiards.

He keeps many clippings about cricket and seemed to have feared a certain player on another team as a very great player.

The best.
LC

[Supe]

Lynn,

5:15 more and I give myself up." I suppose he was reckoning both Smith and Tabram. But with Polly and Annie, that should be only four. Who is number 5?

Even as a couple of newspapers, the Guardian and Irish Times for example, hit the news kiosks reporting this story others, like the Daily Telegraph and Pall Mall Gazette, were writing it was a discredited hoax. It was and thus whoever the fifth was doesn't signify as the graffito (and numbers) were just the figment of someone's febrile imagination.

Don.