George Cecil Ives

[lynn cates]

day 4 at the library

Hello. Another day at the library looking over Ives’ diaries. Now I know that he hates barristers and, in his fantasies places them before Christ’s seat at the judgment. He spends several pages denouncing their unjust sentences. I have gone through Jan 1892 and he is preparing himself for the “great cause”—referring to gay liberation.

Interesting were his remarks about Cambridge University—it had nothing to offer him save good chess.

His speeches went off as well as his failed poetry. He saved a press clipping:

“Mr. Ives wandered along the paths of history and oxymoron, speaking of Rome, tenets untenable and creeds incredible and crinolines, till he was called to order by the President.” (heh-heh)

He was genuinely moved over the sickness and death of Prince Eddie and he mourned the loss of his dearest friend—the Comtesse de Chambrun (anyone know her?). He refers also to the death of Cardinal Manning along with a diatribe about his distaste for RC’s.

Quite self-important and with a good deal of time on his hands having only his chess and cricket to help keep him occupied.

On a side note, I have NEVER seen an individual whose hand writing varied as much from one day to the next. Incredible.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

day 3 at the library

Hello. Today I had a go at Ives' correspondence. I found a letter from the Author's Club. The name Sir Walter Besant popped up. Sounds familiar but I cannot place it.

Found one urgent plea from a young lady urging him to renounce his new views and return to his old ones. (Seems he had officially adopted hedonism at the time. [Hedonism is the claim that pleasure is the only intrinsic good and all other goods are instrumental.])

Another missive contained some rather urgent questions posed--including his views on sodomy and "solitary vice" and whether the former were not superior to the latter.

He also received some correspondence regarding the "Church Army." This seems to be a sectary institution dedicated to helping "prisoners, unfortunates, inebriates, and the worthy poor." They had a branch office at 104 Whitechapel Road. It seems he was interested in something like an "adopt a prisoner" program

He also had a lengthy correspondence with sexologist Havelock Ellis. Unfortunately, Professor Ellis' handwriting is nearly illegible.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

day 2 at the library

Hello. Another day at the library.

I checked the dates of the canonicals. With only the possible exception of Chapman, he always goes up to London the day before a killing. Then he goes back to Bentworth Hall. Moreover, some of his worst jabberwocky takes place around the same times. (His digressions about bestiality and incest are a bit much to bear.)

There are strains of paranoia in his thinking. Hence he has a year's end inventory of friends and enemies. He notes that he hates no one and wishes to live in peace; but, he REMEMBERS what some have tried to do to him, so they'd better BEWARE.

Most annoying are his constant tirades against marriage. He is also quite interested in items like age of consent and consanguinity. Indeed, he spends some pages relating his findings on such laws in America.

I found a couple more references to the WCM, in particular Coles. Unfortunately, he leaves England just afterward to go to the south of France as he did right after the MJK murder.

All in all, a bizarre chap with FAR too much time on his hands--made worse by his frequent headaches and insomnia, for, subtracting the time that he cannot sleep, his days were long indeed.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

paper

Hello Supe. Thanks. His entry was September 10. I presume he was reading the paper at the time. I wonder which it was?

Phil Carter has pointed out to me that his handwriting becomes less legible around the murder dates. When I look closely, that seems the case. He was very sensitive and the murders seem to have upset him. His entry for September 1 (the day after the Nichols event) begins in his numerical code and he starts talking about death.

The best.
LC

[Supe]

Lynn,

5:15 more and I give myself up." I suppose he was reckoning both Smith and Tabram. But with Polly and Annie, that should be only four. Who is number 5?

Even as a couple of newspapers, the Guardian and Irish Times for example, hit the news kiosks reporting this story others, like the Daily Telegraph and Pall Mall Gazette, were writing it was a discredited hoax. It was and thus whoever the fifth was doesn't signify as the graffito (and numbers) were just the figment of someone's febrile imagination.

Don.

[lynn cates]

sports

Hello Phil. I'll keep my eyes open. Turns out he also played a good deal of lawn tennis, chess, and billiards.

He keeps many clippings about cricket and seemed to have feared a certain player on another team as a very great player.

The best.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello Lyn, just as aside...did he play against a Hampton team? Let me know if you see one... I wrote a book about the 250 history of my CC (Hampton Hill CC) and this could be a great addition!..lol

best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

poet

Hello Phil. Indeed. Lots of old cricket scores. He played himself and was a regular enthusiast.

Seems he also wrote poetry and kept several clippings of reviews. But they are all BAD! One memorable review of his verse ran, "this is rot, not verse." (Something tells me I'd have burned that clipping--not kept it.)

The best.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello all. I finally got a chance to look into Ives' collected papers.



Now to the point. He mentions both the Chapman and Kelly killings--but particularly Chapman. He notes that she was viciously mutilated and that the police had found an inscription in chalk on a wall opposite: "5:15 more and I give myself up." I suppose he was reckoning both Smith and Tabram. But with Polly and Annie, that should be only four. Who is number 5?

Curiously, on the empty page opposite the Kelly write up, he notes that there was another killing--but the entry date is July 17, 1989. I presume he was referring to MacKenzie?

If you like coincidences, it seems the poor devil was "going up to London" just before 3 or 4 of the WC murders. Oddly, he does not mention the double event--at least it's not there in his Oct 1 entry.



LC

Hello LC,

Well done that man! My emphasis on your words about the double event...

If, and I say IF Ives is involved, that little snippet could be very important. Because of the question marks against Stride for one.

Don't give up yet, you never know what lies buried in a cricket score!

best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

day 1 at the library

Hello all. I finally got a chance to look into Ives' collected papers.

What a bizarre little twit! He is completely self absorbed and morbid at age 20, the year of the WC murders. (Actually, he turned 21 about the time of the Miller's Court business.) He goes into tirades about death and fate. He also has a most annoying habit of lapsing into a numerical code in order to communicate. Fortunately, some kind soul has translated his code. His first few forays are translated into English but, some time later, they decode into rather simple Latin. He makes more than one reference to his eventual destiny or fate. Quite the philosopher.

Now to the point. He mentions both the Chapman and Kelly killings--but particularly Chapman. He notes that she was viciously mutilated and that the police had found an inscription in chalk on a wall opposite: "5:15 more and I give myself up." I suppose he was reckoning both Smith and Tabram. But with Polly and Annie, that should be only four. Who is number 5?

Curiously, on the empty page opposite the Kelly write up, he notes that there was another killing--but the entry date is July 17, 1989. I presume he was referring to MacKenzie?

If you like coincidences, it seems the poor devil was "going up to London" just before 3 or 4 of the WC murders. Oddly, he does not mention the double event--at least it's not there in his Oct 1 entry.

I hope to go back to the library and have another go at his diaries next week before I give it up as a rum job.

LC

[lynn cates]

Rev Andy

Hello Mike. I'm with you. It is incredible to me that this chap has not been researched. I cannot help but believe that the Rev. Andy will pop round with, "Oh, yes. You've discovered Georgie, have you? Well, when I went through his papers 10 years ago, I discovered nothing of value."

Of course, this might be helpful before I spend a good portion of my holiday parked at the library.

The best.
LC

[Mike Covell]

I'm just thinking aloud Lynn. I have lost track the amount of times that people have told me not to bother looking here, there or everywhere, because it has been done and nothing has been found. I still look, and still find things of interest, so good luck.

[lynn cates]

on the stacks?

Hello Mike. That is an EXCELLENT question. I must confess I haven't the foggiest notion. The thought did occur to me. I wonder if that work is in the common stacks?

Incidentally, my post is merely a reproduction of the library blurb. (Lest I should receive credit where not due.)

The best.
LC

[Mike Covell]

Paul Sieveking was one of the co-editors of Fortean Times, he still contributes. I find it strange that nothing has been mentioned on Ives in that publication. I will try and go through my past editions.

[curious]

Lynn,
You certainly have your work cut out for you.

Quoting an early post from you: While Ives amassed 45 volumes of scrapbooks, 1892-1949, they do not form part of this collection. These scrapbooks consist of clippings on topics such as murders, punishments, freaks, theories of crime and punishment, transvestism, psychology of gender, homosexuality, cricket scores, and letters he wrote to newspapers. For extracts of these scrapbooks, which were edited by Paul Sieveking and published by Jay Landesman in 1981, see Man Bites Man.

Has anyone checked out the "Man Bites Man" that includes excerpts of his scrapbooks ?

Good luck!

curious