The Bank Holiday Murders by Tom Wescott (2014)

[Fisherman]

Hi Tom!

This is your "obsessed" colleague - I have a number of questions for you regarding this interview of yours and how you present our case:

You say that "they" (Lechmere and Paul) spoke to Mizen and said that the woman in Buck´s Row was drunk or dead.

But Mizen makes it clear that ONE man spoke to him, and he says nothing about that man ever mentioning that the woman was possibly dead.

Why did you leave that out?

You say that Lechmere was the man who discovered the body, but you forget to say that the only man to claim this was himself. It lacks corroboration otherwise.

Why did you leave that out?

You say that the entire argument in the documentary is based on timings, but it is equally based on blood evidence, on the Mizen scam, on the geography of the crimes etcetera.

Why did you leave that out?

You claim that Charles Lechmere stopped killing after the Ripper series. What is your proof for that? We have pointed to other murders that could have been his work.

Why did you leave that out?

You say that Charles Lechmere never got close to the body before Paul arrived. But we only have that information from Charles Lechmere himself.

Why did you leave that out?

You say that there was no blood on Lechmere after the killing of Polly Nichols. Where is the corroboration for this?

The truth is that nobody checked him for blood.

Why did you leave that out?

These were your objections to the theory. In each and every case, you ommitted to point to the alternatives, presented by us. In some cases, you presented unproven things as facts.

The most interesting thing is that you say that you think that Polly Nichols was killed at 3.30 (the Harriet Lilley version, thus).

Jonas Mizen was approached by Chalres Lechmere at around 3.48. He arrived at the murder site in Buck´s Row at approximately 3.50. At that stage, Polly Nichols, who had had her head almost severed from the body, was still bleeding. Twenty minutes after she was cut, according to you.

You left that out too, as you spoke of the Lechmere theory.

Thanks for recognizing that it is a very good documentary. I would, however, like some more recognition of the underlying facts too ...

All the best,
Fisherman

[drstrange169]

>>In each and every case, you ommitted to point to the alternatives, presented by us. In some cases, you presented unproven things as facts.<<

Exactly the criticism I have of the documentary!

[Monty]

Indeed Dusty,

The irony of the preacher isn't lost.

Monty

[The Good Michael]

Indeed Dusty,

The irony of the preacher isn't lost.

Monty

Monty,

While you're here and so I don't have to chase you down, which newspaper (if you know this) shows that Mizen spoke with Cross? I've only seen reference to a carman, and we know he and Paul were together. I've also only seen where the coroner asks Cross if he mentioned a policeman waning Mizen in Buck's Row, and Cross saying, "No sir, there was no policeman there." That of course doesn't mean Cross spoke to him. He only said he didn't say that to Mizen, but not that he actually spoke. I can't find anything else, but perhaps I'm not looking hard enough. I really do want to support the Lechmerians, but just can't find the material to do so. Never mind, I found it in the Times. Thanks

Mike

[martin wilson]

Hi Tom

See Eduardo Zinnas' dissertation Out Of Africa for the Zulu reference. Micheal Caine played Lt Gonville Bromhead in the film.
Autumnofterror are obviously referring to the time you attacked the British army with an assegai, or the reviewer felt overwhelmed by the onslaught of funky facts you were presenting, one of the two.
all the best.

[Tom_Wescott]

Why did you leave that out?

Hi Fish. I'm not going to let my book thread turn into a Cross thread, but I'll answer your repeated question of why I didn't spend my hour presenting your case - it's because I didn't have to. The host asked for my views, not my version of your views. I also didn't read Russell Edwards' book aloud in order to present his case. What I DID do was provide the name of his book so interested people could read it. In your case I told them how they could go to youtube and look up your documentary so that they COULD get your side of the story. Isn't that fair enough? You might have noticed I twice said it's the best suspect documentary out there, so it's not like anything I said would have turned people off from viewing it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

What's kind of funny about Tom's interview is that he sounds like an old man whistfully sharing his memories of the past...at least for the first several minutes. I wonder if we would all come off that way.

Mike

That's pretty much the way it is, Mike. And I imagine that yes, you all would!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Monty]

Monty,

While you're here and so I don't have to chase you down, which newspaper (if you know this) shows that Mizen spoke with Cross? I've only seen reference to a carman, and we know he and Paul were together. I've also only seen where the coroner asks Cross if he mentioned a policeman waning Mizen in Buck's Row, and Cross saying, "No sir, there was no policeman there." That of course doesn't mean Cross spoke to him. He only said he didn't say that to Mizen, but not that he actually spoke. I can't find anything else, but perhaps I'm not looking hard enough. I really do want to support the Lechmerians, but just can't find the material to do so. Never mind, I found it in the Times. Thanks

Mike

Glad to be of help Mike.

Monty

[Fisherman]

Hi Fish. I'm not going to let my book thread turn into a Cross thread, but I'll answer your repeated question of why I didn't spend my hour presenting your case - it's because I didn't have to. The host asked for my views, not my version of your views. I also didn't read Russell Edwards' book aloud in order to present his case. What I DID do was provide the name of his book so interested people could read it. In your case I told them how they could go to youtube and look up your documentary so that they COULD get your side of the story. Isn't that fair enough? You might have noticed I twice said it's the best suspect documentary out there, so it's not like anything I said would have turned people off from viewing it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I know you said you thought it was the best documentary. That´s why I said thanks for that.

... but I would like to know how you think Nichols could have bled for twenty minutes, so I am moving that question to the documentary thread.

Then you can answer it there.

The best,
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

The Bank Holiday Murders is at the moment the #5 Serial Killer book at amazon.co.uk (paperback) and also #6 (kindle). Thanks for the support.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[RockySullivan]

>>In each and every case, you ommitted to point to the alternatives, presented by us. In some cases, you presented unproven things as facts.<<

Exactly the criticism I have of the documentary!

It's harder to take Lechmere seriously as the ripper after watching the documentary.

[Defective Detective]

I went ahead and purchased this for myself as a Christmas treat, together with 1888: London Murders In The Year Of The Ripper (and the new Marilyn Manson record as a perfect soundtrack to both). Color me skeptically curious.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

I really enjoyed the book.

I found the Pearly Poll elements, and the landlords elements to be very instructive.

A good information mine for fiction writers.

Well done Mr Wescott.

[Tom_Wescott]

I went ahead and purchased this for myself as a Christmas treat, together with 1888: London Murders In The Year Of The Ripper (and the new Marilyn Manson record as a perfect soundtrack to both). Color me skeptically curious.

I would be skeptical of a new Manson album as well. Let me know your thoughts, Def.

Sir John,

Much appreciated. If the case is ever solved it will require a healthy dose of imagination.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Defective Detective]

Nah, it's great. Floating aroung the Internet as a leak. Better than his more recent work. Or anything NIN's done the last decade, for that matter.

I'm trying to build up a Ripper book collection. Any recommendations?